WizardStan
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*golfclap*
Steam announcement countdown..
- Thread starter Garrett
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vcoleiro1
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Will I be able to clean my drapes and fabrics with the Steam Machine?
Looking forward to the late night TV Commercials offering these at a discount with included gifts like Potato Peelers
On a serious note: I do expect they will announce at some time VR input. They have had a team working on it for ages. Actually they had VR and AR teams, they got rid of the AR team to focus on VR some time ago . The AR team as it turned out was working on AR goggles.
I got the feeling back then , that they were working on their own VR goggles (at minimum support for it ie Oculus Rift).
So my guess is that VR goggles will be part of the announcement.
Looking forward to the late night TV Commercials offering these at a discount with included gifts like Potato Peelers
On a serious note: I do expect they will announce at some time VR input. They have had a team working on it for ages. Actually they had VR and AR teams, they got rid of the AR team to focus on VR some time ago . The AR team as it turned out was working on AR goggles.
I got the feeling back then , that they were working on their own VR goggles (at minimum support for it ie Oculus Rift).
So my guess is that VR goggles will be part of the announcement.
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WizardStan
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Rift support is already part of the Source engine. They'd be pretty foolish not to incorporate it in some way into SteamOS.
ekianjo
Hardcore Member
The SteamOS and SteamMachine make it very much like a new 3DO kind of console.
It was very much the same positioning: a machine anyone can manufacture, and run the same games using the same OS.
Maybe the market is ready for this kind of things now.
It was very much the same positioning: a machine anyone can manufacture, and run the same games using the same OS.
Maybe the market is ready for this kind of things now.
And it has all this 'linux poised to conquer the desktop; this time for real; serious' feeling again.
I won't complain (even though IMO steam doesn't make the world a better place), but would be very surprised. IMO the problem is not the tech, but the users
ekianjo
Hardcore Member
What do you mean exactly by that?IMO the problem is not the tech, but the users
Most users won't even know it's a Linux system. They'll see a Steam console. That's it. That's what they want to do.
WizardStan
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And arguably that is a user problem. There exist people that will user a tool, not understand it, and then bash the underlying principle of that tool without realizing that the principle is what allows the tool they are using to exist.
I have had conversations that basically went "Linux is utter crap and nothing good has ever come out of it. Look at all these links I'm pulling up on my Android phone to prove it". I worked for a company that had a policy of "open source is absolute evil unless the alternatives cost too much money then we love the open source community".
This is a problem. If SteamOS picks up steam (heheh), we could have a generation of media companies praising it while still talking about how Linux "is not ready for mainstream", even if SteamOS is nothing more than GNU/Linux with a custom window manager and some specific modifications for their applications.
On the other hand, I will take a certain enjoyment out of blowing people's minds when they say "Linux is terrible for games" and then explaining that SteamOS *IS* Linux.
On the other other hand, it's currently only rumor that SteamOS will be based on GNU/Linux. The whole argument could become moot if they've done something entirely different.
I have had conversations that basically went "Linux is utter crap and nothing good has ever come out of it. Look at all these links I'm pulling up on my Android phone to prove it". I worked for a company that had a policy of "open source is absolute evil unless the alternatives cost too much money then we love the open source community".
This is a problem. If SteamOS picks up steam (heheh), we could have a generation of media companies praising it while still talking about how Linux "is not ready for mainstream", even if SteamOS is nothing more than GNU/Linux with a custom window manager and some specific modifications for their applications.
On the other hand, I will take a certain enjoyment out of blowing people's minds when they say "Linux is terrible for games" and then explaining that SteamOS *IS* Linux.
On the other other hand, it's currently only rumor that SteamOS will be based on GNU/Linux. The whole argument could become moot if they've done something entirely different.
WizardStan
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Right, and I'm saying that could lead to problems. Not for the users, but for Linux.Totally hypothetical scenario here, worst cases and all that, but bear with it.
SteamOS becomes great, it exists in millions of homes around the world and companies develop games that target it specifically. It isn't exactly desktop GNU/Linux, but it's close, so close that all these companies would need to do is rebuild their game with original libraries (as opposed to the ones modified for Valve's purposes) to produce a GNU/Linux compatible executable. But they look at the market and everyone seems to be saying that it still isn't ready for mainstream, despite the fact that it is obviously proven to be stable, full featured, and can be made as user friendly as any other interface.
This isn't a problem in that it makes things worse, it's a problem in that Linux should be benefiting but is not. If the users just see "SteamOS, totally not Linux" then Linux does not get any benefit, we're stuck in our circular chicken/egg problem.
If it's slightly less transparent, like "SteamOS is great, and surprise! Based on Linux", then there's at least a potential for benefit. On the other hand, that could turn out to be a detriment to Valve as well, as there will no doubt be a significant number of people that see "SteamOS, based on Linux" and respond "well it will obviously suck then because Linux just isn't ready for mainstream".
Yes. Prejudice is hard to overcome. I also believe that gamers are among the most clueless. When I was working as an assistent teacher at the university they did perform worst by a wide margin in the programming courses because of their false preconceptions about computing and their inability to let go of them (being mostly testosterone driven adolescent males didn't help either).
MrConfusion
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Spot on... the kids who label themselves as "machine builders" and "hardcore gamers" tend to belong in the group who are not only totally clueless when the programming course starts, but also most verbally opposed to learning, because "it sucks and it's stupid". They are interested in computing only in the sense of "you get to Youtube and you get to game". We've gone really, really far from the late 80's and early 90's computing hobby. I think the worst aspect of this "next generation" hobbyists is the incredible amounts of money they throw to Intel, nVidia & Co.
Now that I've worked with 12-18 year olds for some years I snort every time I hear someone say "but that hobby was terribly expensive in the 80's"...
Linux is "that sucky OS" to these guys because in the worst case you can't get to Youtube and you definitely don't get GTAV... Not that they've ever seen one, except in their phones...
ekianjo
Hardcore Member
People in the 80s who were in computing were highly educated and curious people. Nothing like the crappy Gen X or Y as they call it who just got into gaming because thats what everyone does around them.
The great generation is behind us.
SNESFAN
Retro game fanatic
I was born in the 80's and am classified as a gen Y'er (born 1982) and I got into computers because of how interested I was in console gaming, and I kinda take offense to that actually.
I think there's way more people now that are as interested in how computers work than before as I feel it's actually a % of people that are like that, not a number. "The great generation" is by no means behind us IMO, in fact the future is brighter now than has ever been if you ask me. I am excited that my children are showing interest in technology beyond just general use and at a much younger age than when I got into them and are able to comprehend things I didn't understand untill I was in my mid teens.
Just as inventions, it becomes harder and harder to do revolutionary things as more and more revolutionary things get made. "You can't re-invent the wheel" literally, but I do feel there's more revolutionary things in technology ahead of us than what is behind us for sure.
General use of your computer once required more intricate knowledge of how the computer worked as a whole to get it to do anything, so all your users were required to know a certain level of everything to be moderately successful and those that didn't have the capacity or patience to learn went without. But that's just dedication, it doesn't show the "hobbyist" mentality and I think that's what we're talking about here. The difference between a car owner and a car mechanic. You had to know cars pretty well to drive a manual but you still had drivers, now that there's the option of the automatic more people can drive but doesn't mean there's less mechanics does it? It just means you now have more clueless people driving, still the same number of mechanics... or more now because you need them more.
The problem is that a portion of those original computer savvy people went on and made getting into computer much much easier so that now everyone can use a computer and now you have a lot more average users % wise of the total population... while the % of the total computer users out of the population has gone up a bunch, I think the % of skilled computer users in the population has stayed the same if not gotten much larger due to greater availability and ease of use getting started. And of those skilled there's bound to be a wide spectrum of skill between them that is not much unlike the way it used to be either.
tldr; offtopic and disagree completely with the above comment
I think there's way more people now that are as interested in how computers work than before as I feel it's actually a % of people that are like that, not a number. "The great generation" is by no means behind us IMO, in fact the future is brighter now than has ever been if you ask me. I am excited that my children are showing interest in technology beyond just general use and at a much younger age than when I got into them and are able to comprehend things I didn't understand untill I was in my mid teens.
Just as inventions, it becomes harder and harder to do revolutionary things as more and more revolutionary things get made. "You can't re-invent the wheel" literally, but I do feel there's more revolutionary things in technology ahead of us than what is behind us for sure.
General use of your computer once required more intricate knowledge of how the computer worked as a whole to get it to do anything, so all your users were required to know a certain level of everything to be moderately successful and those that didn't have the capacity or patience to learn went without. But that's just dedication, it doesn't show the "hobbyist" mentality and I think that's what we're talking about here. The difference between a car owner and a car mechanic. You had to know cars pretty well to drive a manual but you still had drivers, now that there's the option of the automatic more people can drive but doesn't mean there's less mechanics does it? It just means you now have more clueless people driving, still the same number of mechanics... or more now because you need them more.
The problem is that a portion of those original computer savvy people went on and made getting into computer much much easier so that now everyone can use a computer and now you have a lot more average users % wise of the total population... while the % of the total computer users out of the population has gone up a bunch, I think the % of skilled computer users in the population has stayed the same if not gotten much larger due to greater availability and ease of use getting started. And of those skilled there's bound to be a wide spectrum of skill between them that is not much unlike the way it used to be either.
tldr; offtopic and disagree completely with the above comment
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EssoAir
Well-Known Member
Honestly, im ok eith things only being on SteamOS. Since its free, all I need to do is dual boot it. Id rather have dualboot Mint and SteamOS than my current Mint and Windows
I doubt I could ask anything more, really. I think the world is lucky enough to have Android as a mainstream OS being that it started as a FOSS project
EssoAir
Well-Known Member
Please do not make such comments. This serves only to make people mad and in no way helps the future
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What the hell are you talking about.. I fall into Gen X and I was computing throughout the 80's. Gen X is anyone born from (1965 to 1981).. Gen Y starts at 1982, so some of them could have seen the late 80's/early 90's computing.
Also isn't that how everyone gets into gaming?, they see others having fun playing games and then decide it may be something that they might want to do.
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Garrett
Advanced Member
Yup.. Steam Controller & it's certainly surprised me
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WizardStan
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Good call Asmo.
On the controller itself... I'm not sure what to think yet. Good points, but that's a lot of change to take in. Change is scary.
On the controller itself... I'm not sure what to think yet. Good points, but that's a lot of change to take in. Change is scary.
Asmo
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Aaaaand, number 3 (edit: Ninjad!)is:
The controller.
http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/SteamController/
There's a dirty great picture of it, and er, uh, well, it's different.
Maybe too different, if you've spent ages honing your skills on the relatively familiar layout and tactile feel of gamepads in general.
Should be good for FPS, not so much for beatemups or platformers, the touchscreen in the middle is nice, but with buttons you don't need to look at the joypad, with this you do. At least it's optional, you could use whatever you want instead if it comes to that.
EDIT: I see it says that whenever you touch the touchscreen on the joypad, it's display will be overlaid on the game screen (so no need to look at the pad). But... then why have a screen on the pad at all? Why not just another touchpad area there? That's a bit weird.
The controller.
http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/SteamController/
There's a dirty great picture of it, and er, uh, well, it's different.
Maybe too different, if you've spent ages honing your skills on the relatively familiar layout and tactile feel of gamepads in general.
Should be good for FPS, not so much for beatemups or platformers, the touchscreen in the middle is nice, but with buttons you don't need to look at the joypad, with this you do. At least it's optional, you could use whatever you want instead if it comes to that.
EDIT: I see it says that whenever you touch the touchscreen on the joypad, it's display will be overlaid on the game screen (so no need to look at the pad). But... then why have a screen on the pad at all? Why not just another touchpad area there? That's a bit weird.
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