So Was The New Case Sent? Where Are The Factory Photos?

[God Ginrai]

The way I see it it's our duty to help out the guys that aren't well-versed. Sure it helps to be a linux power-user, but I feel the idea is to provide enough resources to allow those that aren't to be able to easily pick it up & enjoy it in many of the same ways (without having to learn ALL the ins & outs of linux [although a bit of learning is always good, that way one can be self-sufficient if a problem is encountered]).

I respectfully disagree. If the OS is done right (and from the videos we've seen, I'm pretty sure it has been) then no one should ever need any "Linux" help, unless they're trying to get into the guts of the system: a poweruser wannabe, as it were. But for the average user that just wants to play some games, surf the web, watch a movie, it's all simple. Linux has this stigma of not being user friendly that really needs to go away.

I agree that the OS will be really simple. I disagree with the idea that Linux is not user friendly. So many people are so scared of something that doesn't have a gui that they don't realize that the terminal is not that hard of a thing to use.

I respectfully disagree. If the OS is done right (and from the videos we've seen, I'm pretty sure it has been) then no one should ever need any "Linux" help, unless they're trying to get into the guts of the system: a poweruser wannabe, as it were. But for the average user that just wants to play some games, surf the web, watch a movie, it's all simple. Linux has this stigma of not being user friendly that really needs to go away.

Unless synaptic is installed, actions like amending the repositories still makes Linux uncomfortable for many, that's even if they get the idea of repositories.

Any good distro makes it easy to access the repository and install from it. The hard part is when you want to install something that isn't in the repository.

-God Ginrai

 

[Dunny]

I agree that the OS will be really simple. I disagree with the idea that Linux is not user friendly. So many people are so scared of something that doesn't have a gui that they don't realize that the terminal is not that hard of a thing to use.

A terminal probably isn't hard for you. My grandmother would never fathom one out. She needs the GUI to get things done. The drooling masses also need the GUI, because a console really is too hard for them. You might not want that sort of person using a computer, but until they do there will never be a "year of the linux desktop".

Linux is too hard for the average user. You're not an average user, so you don't find it hard.

D.

 

[bananajamslam]

I agree that the OS will be really simple. I disagree with the idea that Linux is not user friendly. So many people are so scared of something that doesn't have a gui that they don't realize that the terminal is not that hard of a thing to use.

A terminal probably isn't hard for you. My grandmother would never fathom one out. She needs the GUI to get things done. The drooling masses also need the GUI, because a console really is too hard for them. You might not want that sort of person using a computer, but until they do there will never be a "year of the linux desktop".

Linux is too hard for the average user. You're not an average user, so you don't find it hard.

D.

Couldn't agree more. No other member of my family can even use my computers because they have kubuntu on them.

 

[gruso]

For those who aren't clear on what will use package management:

It's already been described that there will be two different types of updates. For the base OS there will be updates handled by a package management system. You'll also be able to download entire images for major updates.

For the applications, they will be the PND standard. (ie. downloaded from the appbox or a dev's website, not via package management)

(my italics)

As for how "complicated" package management is, no. Most people already use things like Steam and Xbox Live, so they're more familiar with the concept than they think they are. Pick item from list, click Install, profit.

[edit] Disclaimer: I'm a Windows user primarily. I'd be using Linux full time if I could get decent support for my effing obscure wifi. A good Linux distro is as easy to use as Windows, you just have to get your head around a few different program names. Sadly that's a big deal for some people, especially older people who don't have the confidence to click things and see what happens. If you're under 40, no excuses, man up and go exploring. I will say though that the DOS command line is way more intuitive than its Linux counterpart. IMO.

 

[WizardStan]

I agree that the OS will be really simple. I disagree with the idea that Linux is not user friendly. So many people are so scared of something that doesn't have a gui that they don't realize that the terminal is not that hard of a thing to use.

Linux is too hard for the average user. You're not an average user, so you don't find it hard.

This is exactly the stigma I was talking about: Linux is not the terminal. People hear "Linux" and think "Oh no, I'll have to type stuff". Linux is just the kernel, and if the rest of the OS that goes on top of that kernel is done right, they will never, ever, have to touch the command line if they don't want to. My parents have been running Ubuntu for years now, and they have never had a problem, never had to open a terminal window, and only once had to call me to walk them through something. They are not computer people, if they didn't have the GUI they wouldn't be able to do anything either.
Many people have used devices that run Linux without even realizing that's what they were doing.

 

[Rathum]

Angstrom.
There's also some Unicode accents I don't have in there, but it's certainly not Armstrong.

dang it, I know this. I'm sick, leave me alone

Couldn't stop thinking of this >.>

 

[Tom`]

I have to point out that I have yet to see an "average" user who could even use Windows without minutely detailed instructions anyway. If you're reasonably comfortable using Windows, and dealing with its idiosyncrasies, then you'll likely have no major issues with Linux, once you get used to not having a menu that says "Start." (I'm ignoring installation issues here, since it's not quite a fair comparison - in general, I've found that installing Windows is at least as difficult as installing Linux, but most people just use what came with the computer.) On the other hand, there are certainly enormous numbers of people who are literally afraid to use any software they haven't "always" used, but in my experience they're the kind of people who are afraid of computers in general anyway.

 

[droneb]

im sorry but i believe there are other threads to talk about that, can we get back on topic?

i've been wondering if they did ship those samples and if they will arrive sometime this week.

 

[God Ginrai]

I agree that the OS will be really simple. I disagree with the idea that Linux is not user friendly. So many people are so scared of something that doesn't have a gui that they don't realize that the terminal is not that hard of a thing to use.

Linux is too hard for the average user. You're not an average user, so you don't find it hard.

This is exactly the stigma I was talking about: Linux is not the terminal. People hear "Linux" and think "Oh no, I'll have to type stuff". Linux is just the kernel, and if the rest of the OS that goes on top of that kernel is done right, they will never, ever, have to touch the command line if they don't want to. My parents have been running Ubuntu for years now, and they have never had a problem, never had to open a terminal window, and only once had to call me to walk them through something. They are not computer people, if they didn't have the GUI they wouldn't be able to do anything either.
Many people have used devices that run Linux without even realizing that's what they were doing.

I admit that some terminal applications can be hard to use, but you can say the same thing for GUI applications as well.

This is the Unix philosophy: Write programs that do one thing and do it well. Write programs to work together. Write programs to handle text streams, because that is a universal interface.

How hard of a concept is it to understand a program that does one thing? The most used functions in the terminal are those GNU utilities that follow Unix philosophy, and they are not hard to use. Linux may not be the terminal, but the terminal is indeed an integral part of the experience. If you choose to forgo it, you might as well just be using Windows.

I ask you one question: How come back before Windows, people were able to deal without GUI, but now they can't?

-God Ginrai

 

[b1llygo4t]

because back then only nerds used computers

 

[Pleng]

I have to point out that I have yet to see an "average" user who could even use Windows without minutely detailed instructions anyway. If you're reasonably comfortable using Windows, and dealing with its idiosyncrasies, then you'll likely have no major issues with Linux,

I am very comfortable using Windows. I have issues with Linux.
(note that despite what some of my posts may seem to suggest, I don't *like* Windows all that much. I just like Linux less )

once you get used to not having a menu that says "Start."

Start is old skool. None of that in Doze theze dayz

 

[Bosbeetle]

I see learning to use linux as a challenge I am looking forward to it.

I've been doing some powershell stuff to get the hang of working in a terminal again. But I still know that stuff from the msx and dos days. Hope the pandora can revive some of those old feelings of being in control again. I see the pandora as a modern day msx. The days where you decide what your machine was be pushing in the right disk (sd card in the pandora's case) and compatibility through uniformness but much more versitile and open than modern day game consoles. And with a keyboard

 

[laurencevde]

It's the people that have only used Windows, and aren't complete noobs on windows that have issues when switching to Linux. They expect to be able to keep doing things the Windows-way, and the first thing they notice are the things in Linux that aren't the same... People also hate losing functionality, so, if there was something on A that they used, and that's not available on B, they'll hate B...

Same thing the other way around BTW. Someone coming from Unix/Linux will instantly notice Windows's issues: F.ex: Where's the Package-manager? WTF am I root? Stupid dialogs all over the place. Not a single app looks like anything else. Why is that shell so useless? Machine's pretty much useless OOTB. What? I actually have to be careful when browsing the web and installing apps? etc.etc....

 

[Bosbeetle]

powershell is pretty decent

 

[Vlynndar]

The only reason I'm not permanently in linux (Dualbooting vista and ubuntu)(Yea, I know) is because I haven't figured out how to get steam working =p
And I haven't found a messenger that's perfectly compatible with windows messenger.
And it bugs me that I can't autoscroll by pressing the wheel button yet.
And that scrolling is not smooth (that's why I use opera over chrome currently).

All these things are fixable, of course. But it's the little things.
I wouldn't mind anyone telling me what to do to make it work, though

I've been in Ubuntu a lot more ever since it didn't crash if you moused over a toolbar any more, though.

EDIT: This perfectly illustrates Laurencevde's point.

 

[trix]

The only reason I'm not permanently in linux (Dualbooting vista and ubuntu)(Yea, I know) is because I haven't figured out how to get steam working =p

What troubles do you have with Steam? Once I installed wine, all I had to do was install Steam and run it as if I was in Windows and it just works, no problems.

To install it I did have to use msiexec tho, as the installer is msi, but it was clearly documented step by step on winehq under "Steam".

 

[Twiitcher]

Just a quick opinion. Why terminal usage is difficult and gui is not. Terminal usage requires memorization of command, switches / paramaters available can be listed once you know the command however syntax needs to be adhered to, file structure needs to be understood, location of files needs to be known ect, .... GUI usage requires understanding of right click being context sensitive, and knowing how to left click to perform listed action.

HUGE difference, randomly typing commands in the terminal = small chance of anything happening at all, let alone correctly, randomly clicking around in a GUI can lead to a successful revelation of a solution to accomplishing a task.

Twiitcher