Set mouse buttons as A B X Y

[fusion_power]

I'm also for an option to swap right analog nub mouse function (Mouse buttons per default) with the ABXY Gaming buttons, should be not impossible. Just in case the analog nub sucks sometimes (mine do un-calibate from time to time within a session and without any reason, and I have the new nubs built in)


Of course, this should be optional. Would be a good addition to Hoftix 6.

 

[ahahah]

^ I'm pretty sure any poll with only 56 responses would not be considered a legitimate source by anyone.

you can't have millions of votes since there are not millions of users that read frequently the forum.

 

[diligentcircle]

When i look at the poll results etc...

The poll results right now are just about 50/50, with a slight tendency towards the face buttons as mouse buttons.

Every time i put my OP in other's hands, they push buttons.

Did you tell them that it has a touch screen?


If they only pushed buttons, how did they figure out how to move the mouse?


If they moved the left nub, did they at least try moving the right nub to see what it does?


How long did it take for them to get used to it once they figured it out or you told them?


What was their reaction when they learned the function of the right nub?


Most importantly, were they ever annoyed by the choice of the right nub for clicking?

 

[Prometheus]

^ I'm pretty sure any poll with only 56 responses would not be considered a legitimate source by anyone.

you can't have millions of votes since there are not millions of users that read frequently the forum.

Precisely my point. Thankyou.


The poll in question has been almost completely 50/50 all along. It's only recently that "Yes" took over from "No", and for a while they were exactly even. "No" was in the lead for even longer.


I would imagine very different results even if only the first 4000 buyers (*once they have their Pandoras*) were all to vote.


My point is: You cannot decide an interface change on the basis of a tiny handful of people, and point to a poll that has always stood at 50/50 in order to say "I look at the results, and...".

 

[Linux-SWAT]

^ I'm pretty sure any poll with only 56 responses would not be considered a legitimate source by anyone.

Some people reacts like it's a 56 vs 0.

The first time i powered on a Pandora, i pushed on buttons, believing they were mouse buttons.


Every time i put my OP in other's hands, they push buttons.


When i look at the poll results etc...

Just because your first intuition expects them to be buttons doesn't make it the best mapping.

No.


It's called ergonomy and intuitivity.

 

[Linux-SWAT]

Did you tell them that it has a touch screen?


If they only pushed buttons, how did they figure out how to move the mouse?


If they moved the left nub, did they at least try moving the right nub to see what it does?


How long did it take for them to get used to it once they figured it out or you told them?


What was their reaction when they learned the function of the right nub?


Most importantly, were they ever annoyed by the choice of the right nub for clicking?

-Did you tell them that it has a touch screen?


That's not the point.


-If they only pushed buttons, how did they figure out how to move the mouse?


N64, dude.


N64 was a widely known system.


-If they moved the left nub, did they at least try moving the right nub to see what it does?


No. A mouse button should be a button so they did not.


-How long did it take for them to get used to it once they figured it out or you told them?


I avoid idiots, so it's fast.


And they're fast to realize the setting is weak.


-What was their reaction when they learned the function of the right nub?


"It's strange."


-Most importantly, were they ever annoyed by the choice of the right nub for clicking?


As i am.


How can they like a button they have to press sometimes more than 10 times to open a menu ?

 

[Caine]

No.


It's called ergonomy and intuitivity.

My own use-cases for the Pandora utilize home/end/pageUp/pageDn a whole lot more than the mouse button clicks and also require a higher precision for those buttons than for the mouse.


Intuitivity for what? If you swap home/end/pageUp/pageDn with the mouse buttons then those buttons are a lot less intuitive then they are now. Many others wish L and R to be assigned as mouse buttons.


It's a matter of taste and usage. Don't presume your own preference to be the absolute and ultimate truth.


Should it be easier to switch? Yes, most definitely! It's on my todo list. Should it be the default? In my opinion, no. I prefer the current setting.

 

[Prometheus]

No disrespect, but I'm starting to think that there's something seriously wrong with your right nub. I've honestly never heard of anyone encountering such severe problems with the nub-as-mouse-buttons setup.

 

[Linux-SWAT]

"No" was in the lead for even longer.

...

I would imagine very different results even if only the first 4000 buyers (*once they have their Pandoras*) were all to vote.

I can imagine the contrary.


But what i see now is a ~50/50.

My point is: You cannot decide an interface change on the basis of a tiny handful of people, and point to a poll that has always stood at 50/50 in order to say "I look at the results, and...".

I look at the results, and...


What i see is there's clearly a room for discussion, and clearly a room for a choice left for users to choose.


Did i wrote somewhere that the result shows OP users wants buttons as default ?


I will not decide. Of course.


But i tell you again : the default setting is not the best.

 

[Linux-SWAT]

Don't presume your own preference to be the absolute and ultimate truth.

I believe i'm right, for a default setting.


I'm not telling what is best for your personal usage.

 

[Linux-SWAT]

No disrespect, but I'm starting to think that there's something seriously wrong with your right nub. I've honestly never heard of anyone encountering such severe problems with the nub-as-mouse-buttons setup.

I will try to move the mouse with right nub.

 

[Caine]

I knew in advance you were going to quote that exact line

I believe i'm right, for a default setting.


I'm not telling what is best for your personal usage.

Well, most people believe their default to be best, yet this thread fails to provide any convincing arguments as to why it should be changed. You do not have an overwhelming majority agreeing with you. In fact, the poll is statistically insignificant due to a too small sample group.


Keep in mind that changing the default right now will break many games since they assume the ABXY is mapped to home/end/pageUp/pageDn. Even if you are right, which I don't think you are, changing it at this point might be more of a hassle than it is worth.

 

[Linux-SWAT]

No disrespect, but I'm starting to think that there's something seriously wrong with your right nub. I've honestly never heard of anyone encountering such severe problems with the nub-as-mouse-buttons setup.

I will try to move the mouse with right nub.

Same result, unfortunately :/

 

[Linux-SWAT]

I knew in advance you were going to quote that exact line

I also knew in advance you knew in advance, so i was first to knew in advance etc...

You do not have an overwhelming majority agreeing with you. In fact, the poll is statistically insignificant due to a too small sample group.

Every expressed opinion is significant.

Keep in mind that changing the default right now will break many games since they assume the ABXY is mapped to home/end/pageUp/pageDn.

I know.

Even if you are right, which I don't think you are, changing it at this point might be more of a hassle than it is worth.

I think long-term.

 

[diligentcircle]

-Did you tell them that it has a touch screen?


That's not the point.

The touch screen makes a galaxy of difference! I'd bet that most users, knowing about the touch screen, would prefer to use the touch screen rather than the nubs anyway. In know I would simply because my trials have indicated that moving the mouse pointer with an analog stick is excessively tedious. The only time I would even use the nubs for the mouse is when I want to right-click, or when the pointer is in the way of something.

Even if you are right, which I don't think you are, changing it at this point might be more of a hassle than it is worth.

I think long-term.

Long-term for what? If the nubs are really so terrible that you have issues using the right nub for clicking, then the long-term solution would be to fix the problem with the nubs, not give that burden to another set of keys. You're also ignoring one part of the mouse which is currently handled effectively: the middle mouse button. Of course, with your layout, the middle mouse button can stay where it is, but think for a second about how awkward and counter-intuitive it is for the mouse buttons and Home/End/PgUp/PgDn buttons to be arranged in such a nonsensical fashion.

-Most importantly, were they ever annoyed by the choice of the right nub for clicking?
As i am.


How can they like a button they have to press sometimes more than 10 times to open a menu ?

Are the nubs really that terrible? I never had such issues with my Logitech F310 or Dualshock 3 using the exact same configuration that the Pandora defaults to. No accidental double-clicks, no failed clicks, nothing of the sort. I should emphasize NEVER; it isn't just very uncommon, it NEVER happens. Like I said before, if the nubs really are that bad, then they need to be fixed. Giving the problem to other keys is not a "long-term" solution.

 

[Caine]

Are the nubs really that terrible? I never had such issues with my Logitech F310 or Dualshock 3 using the exact same configuration that the Pandora defaults to. No accidental double-clicks, no failed clicks, nothing of the sort. I should emphasize NEVER; it isn't just very uncommon, it NEVER happens. Like I said before, if the nubs really are that bad, then they need to be fixed. Giving the problem to other keys is not a "long-term" solution.

I cannot identify with his statement on that at all. Like some have said, it sounds like he has a bad right-nub or something.

 

[Linux-SWAT]

-Did you tell them that it has a touch screen?


That's not the point.

The touch screen makes a galaxy of difference! I'd bet that most users, knowing about the touch screen, would prefer to use the touch screen rather than the nubs anyway. In know I would simply because my trials have indicated that moving the mouse pointer with an analog stick is excessively tedious. The only time I would even use the nubs for the mouse is when I want to right-click, or when the pointer is in the way of something.

Off-topic.

I think long-term.

Long-term for what? If the nubs are really so terrible that you have issues using the right nub for clicking, then the long-term solution would be to fix the problem with the nubs, not give that burden to another set of keys. You're also ignoring one part of the mouse which is currently handled effectively: the middle mouse button. Of course, with your layout, the middle mouse button can stay where it is, but think for a second about how awkward and counter-intuitive it is for the mouse buttons and Home/End/PgUp/PgDn buttons to be arranged in such a nonsensical fashion.

Thanks for evoking middle button.


I use it a lot under Linux and found it very difficult in OP, often copying 2 or 3 times the text portion !

Are the nubs really that terrible? I never had such issues with my Logitech F310 or Dualshock 3 using the exact same configuration that the Pandora defaults to. No accidental double-clicks, no failed clicks, nothing of the sort. I should emphasize NEVER; it isn't just very uncommon, it NEVER happens. Like I said before, if the nubs really are that bad, then they need to be fixed. Giving the problem to other keys is not a "long-term" solution.

As said here : http://boards.openpa...dpost__p__37848 , the nubs totally rocks. For analog movements.


Congrats for your Logitech F310 and Dualshock 3.

 

[diligentcircle]

The touch screen makes a galaxy of difference! I'd bet that most users, knowing about the touch screen, would prefer to use the touch screen rather than the nubs anyway. In know I would simply because my trials have indicated that moving the mouse pointer with an analog stick is excessively tedious. The only time I would even use the nubs for the mouse is when I want to right-click, or when the pointer is in the way of something.

Off-topic.

No, it's not off-topic. You're missing the point: if the touch screen is more useful for the mouse function than the nubs anyway, why focus on making the mouse "better" at the expense of other buttons?

I cannot identify with his statement on that at all. Like some have said, it sounds like he has a bad right-nub or something.

That's what I figured. I simply can't imagine having to press "10 times" or having a serious double-clicking problem, not with the experience I've had with my controllers and JoyToKey.

 

[sebt3]

Thanks for evoking middle button.


I use it a lot under Linux and found it very difficult in OP, often copying 2 or 3 times the text portion !

Your nub is definatly broken. I'm using the middle-click a lot on my pandora without _any_ issue. Getting a double-click right was a bit tricky in the early days (before the dble-click function was added) but now.


Also instead of arguing to death. Just code it. With the effort you have put in arguing for your point you could have it implemented by yourself (including the requiered learning step, or you just dont deserve your nick)

 

[Neelix]

I must say that I have also had issues with nub mouse clicks not registering properly. Usually in the form of registering as several clicks which had a tendency to cancel each other out. This was an issue that developed for me over time and I suspect this to mostly be an issue with the calibration, as it came good when I performed the 'magic nub dance' though that was shortly before I had to send my Pandora back due to the PTOD. I do believe this is an issue which needs to be solved, and I'd be interested to see if the neutral zone suggestion above makes any difference. (once I get my Pandora back)


That being said, while I have pondered changing the layout, I came to the conclusion that the only thing I would actually change would be to reverse the middle click and double click options, as I found down for middle-click to be counter intuitive. Certainly I like my Home, End, Pg Up and Pg Dn keys exactly where they are, and the current layout otherwise makes a lot of sense to me. To each their own I guess, but I have to agree with Caine, It should be easily user configurable, but there is no need to change the default layout.


- Neelix