Say That Op Were Bought Out?

[quadomatic]

I wasn't aware that someone could buy a privately owned company whose shares are not for sale...

 

[WizardStan]

I wasn't aware that someone could buy a privately owned company whose shares are not for sale...

Everything can be bought for the right price. If some company really wants to buy OpenPandora, they just show up on Craig's door with a truckfull of money.

 

[Dunny]

It's a balance board... I'm sorry, but if you think those surfing/skateboarding games in the arcades that you stood on to play were excellent games, then you have some problems.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you may not have played it. I've not mentioned any surfing or skateboarding games nor my views on those, and I'm afraid I do not see how I "have some problems".

My point is that it is a glorified accessory that best mimics those types of arcade games, and seeing as how you said it was "packed to the gills with excellent arcade-style game design", I assumed those kinds of games were the ones to which you were referring.

-God Ginrai

I bought the Mrs a Wii-Fit with the balance board, and she uses it every day - and I have to say, she looks a lot fitter since she did - she has a heart condition that means that regular "normal" exercise is too strenuous, and this is right up her street. She finds it fun to interact with the Wii in this manner. No, Wii Fit is not a "game", but then I've also bought some games that use it. The Raving Rabids one and a winter sports one, and they're ace! We get some mates around and the Wii is getting more play time than either the 360 or the PS3.

I'm at a loss as to how people can describe these as shovelware, I really am. If people buy them and enjoy them, then they're doing the job they're intended for!

D.

 

[gp32rich]

As long as I have a Pandora in my hand which I don't have to upgrade I don't mind Craig, etc making a mint out of this thing.

After I have an open one; they can do what they like and the second batcher's can realise why first batch is best

 

[juniorm33]

Quick scan of thread.
Any talk of removing parts be it keyboard or numbs, just wouldn't make the buyout worth it in my eyes.
If they could afford to buy OP then they could afford to develop a UMPC or a handheld console using the same tech.
What makes the Pandora different is the sum of the parts.
Instead of removing things it would be better to add, usual stuff people have talked about, camera, 3g, etc. And all that would just be a discussion of what should make up a Pandora 2.

It's a niche product that covers a wide marked. That sounds so contradictory :lol:

 

[WizardStan]

I'm at a loss as to how people can describe these as shovelware, I really am. If people buy them and enjoy them, then they're doing the job they're intended for!

Pretty much anything that the speaker doesn't enjoy playing is defined as shovelware. Generally it is "hardcore" gamers complaining about the gross number of "casual" games that are coming out for the Nintendo systems. When I point out that the numbers show about as many "hardcore" games coming out today as there was 10 years ago, that they've only added to the library with the "casual" games, I get the often compelling argument of "nuh uh, you're wrong and I know what I'm talking about" or something along those lines.
Occasionally I reach for the big guns and point out that, by most definitions, Pacman, DigDug, Asteroids, and various other classics are all "casual" games, they tend to get angry and either stop talking to me or repeat the "I know what I'm talking about and you're wrong" argument that I can't help but accept because it is so concrete.

 

[Prometheus]

Occasionally I reach for the big guns and point out that, by most definitions, Pacman, DigDug, Asteroids, and various other classics are all "casual" games, they tend to get angry and either stop talking to me or repeat the "I know what I'm talking about and you're wrong" argument that I can't help but accept because it is so concrete.

I've actually seen people make such claims. Then I read this again, and feel mindboggled that anyone could attempt to describe Pac-Man in such a fashion.

 

[WizardStan]

I've actually seen people make such claims. Then I read this again, and feel mindboggled that anyone could attempt to describe Pac-Man in such a fashion.

I'm not sure if you're agreeing with me or trying to counter my point. I'm not saying Pacman or any of these classics are "casual" games, just that they fall under the definition that these complainers try to use.
These "hardcore" gamers often claim that "casual" "shovel ware" games (am I using up my air quote quota yet?) have no depth, are repetitive, are things you can simply pick up and put down again and for that reason they are not good. Having popped a few quarters into pacman over the years I can safely say that it is very repetitive, has no real depth, and you can just as easily start a game as finish it and not have actually accomplished anything.
At least with Cake Mania you can feel satisfied that you've made hundreds of virtual little lives better with your well decorated cakes

 

[Prometheus]

I'm agreeing with you, Stan. I just wanted to link to The Pac-Man Dossier to add to what you were saying (I mean, look at it - how can anyone claim "casual" of such a thing? :lol: ).

 

[WizardStan]

I'm agreeing with you, Stan. I just wanted to link to The Pac-Man Dossier to add to what you were saying (I mean, look at it - how can anyone claim "casual" of such a thing? :lol: ).

Yeah, no kidding. It's unbelievably hardcore! At the same time, I've seen people get similarly worked up over Bejewled or the previously mentioned Cake Mania. You original point is bang on: if people are enjoying them, then they're doing exactly what they're supposed to, and no game is bad so long as someone is having fun with it.

 

[God Ginrai]

I don't mind games like Wii Fit. But when the first party manufacturer encourages such games, it leads to many low quality games made to make a quick buck. Those games are considered Shovelware, by my definition. I never called Wii Fit Shovelware, I am saying that first party games like Wii Fit, and Nintendo's practice of allowing all of the bad games through, are encouraging these companies that are producing the Shovelware.

Also, WizardStan, I would probably disagree with you on the amount of "hardcore" games coming out nowadays being the same as it used to be, however I will admit that an adequate amount of such games are indeed coming out. It isn't the amount that bothers me, it is the distribution. Most of the hardcore games are on the PS3 and XBox 360. Aside from a couple of ports and one or two other games, the only good games on the Wii are first party games. It's because of Nintendo that things are like this, because they are encouraging these bad games that are being put on their system, and aren't even trying to get more serious games.

Back in the "old days" we could choose any main console and find a generally equal distribution of hardcore games, it's not like that anymore.

-God Ginrai

 

[x68000]

The Lynx system was originally developed by Epyx as the Handy Game. Planning and design of the console began in 1986 and completed in 1987.[1] Epyx first showed the Handy system at the Winter Consumer Electronics Show (CES) in January 1989. Facing financial difficulties, Epyx sought out partners. Atari Corp. and Epyx eventually agreed that Atari Corp. would handle production and marketing, while Epyx would handle software development.
Atari Corp. changed the internal speaker and removed the thumb-stick on the control pad before releasing it as the Lynx, initially retailing in the US at US$179.95. Atari Corp. then showed the Lynx to the press at the Summer 1989 CES as the "Portable Color Entertainment System", which was changed to Lynx when actual consoles were distributed to resellers.[1]

I'm pretty sure the Lynx was originally to be called the Epyx Advantage

 

[WizardStan]

It's because of Nintendo that things are like this, because they are encouraging these bad games that are being put on their system, and aren't even trying to get more serious games.

They aren't bad games though, that's the point, they just aren't games you enjoy. The fact that the casual game market is so huge now, and that Nintendo is making money hand-over-fist suggests that "hardcore" gamers are now, in fact, in the minority. And if you were to rate games based on popularity, such casual games would be the "good" games and more hardcore games are the "bad" games.
Granted, no single casual game alone tops any hardcore game, but there's so many different flavours of such games that they add up to huge numbers.
And again, if people are honestly enjoying the game, how can it possibly be considered bad?

 

[x68000]

It's because of Nintendo that things are like this, because they are encouraging these bad games that are being put on their system, and aren't even trying to get more serious games.

They aren't bad games though, that's the point, they just aren't games you enjoy. The fact that the casual game market is so huge now, and that Nintendo is making money hand-over-fist suggests that "hardcore" gamers are now, in fact, in the minority. And if you were to rate games based on popularity, such casual games would be the "good" games and more hardcore games are the "bad" games.
Granted, no single casual game alone tops any hardcore game, but there's so many different flavours of such games that they add up to huge numbers.
And again, if people are honestly enjoying the game, how can it possibly be considered bad?

They really are bad bad games! This is not subjective, it's fact!

The Wii has hundreds of so called games, which were obviously developed within weeks on a shoestring budget. At least that is the case in the UK.

 

[Prometheus]

Let me show you guys something.

 

[x68000]

Let me show you guys something.

When is the Wii port coming out?

 

[Prometheus]

Haha, it's a PlayStation 2 exclusive, I'm afraid.

My point was that that was part of what Sony encouraged on their platforms (though for reasons unknown to me, it is less complained about). It's part of a rather big "series" of games from the same people, spread across the PlayStation and PlayStation 2 (look up "Phoenix Games" on YouTube and be horrified).

 

[God Ginrai]

It's because of Nintendo that things are like this, because they are encouraging these bad games that are being put on their system, and aren't even trying to get more serious games.

They aren't bad games though, that's the point, they just aren't games you enjoy. The fact that the casual game market is so huge now, and that Nintendo is making money hand-over-fist suggests that "hardcore" gamers are now, in fact, in the minority. And if you were to rate games based on popularity, such casual games would be the "good" games and more hardcore games are the "bad" games.
Granted, no single casual game alone tops any hardcore game, but there's so many different flavours of such games that they add up to huge numbers.
And again, if people are honestly enjoying the game, how can it possibly be considered bad?

http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/wii/carnivalgamesminigolf <-- I don't prefer metacritic, but I figured less people would complain about something that compiled everyone than with IGN.

That game is horrible, and there are tons of games like it. Don't tell me that they are not bad games. People complain about Windows being an OS, but at least Microsoft puts some effort into it. These games are just thrown out like ripped fish nets hoping to net some money.

And Prometheus, I am not saying that bad games do not exist on other systems. They most certainly do. (I mean, look at the Bond games EA made ;P) My point is that the scales are tipped on the Wii while on the other systems they are tipped in the other direction. It should be an even distribution, but Nintendo's encouragement of such games has made most of that crap gather on the Wii, and most people who want to make serious games see that as a reason to not develop for the Wii. (as well as other reasons like Graphics)

EDIT: Btw, Prometheus, that video looks like what would happen if EA got the rights to the Land Before Time franchise.

-God Ginrai

 

[Prometheus]

They've been finding excuse after excuse, God Ginrai. First it was one thing, then another, now this. It is the big-selling system, and it is quite mindboggling that after so many years, these big and allegedly experienced companies are still unable to make something worthy of buying.

Indeed, some of the tat they have put out (Zack & Wiki: Quest for Barbaros' Treasure, and Tatsunoko vs Capcom, immediately spring to mind), have been among the worst buys I've made.

 

[Dunny]

It's because of Nintendo that things are like this, because they are encouraging these bad games that are being put on their system, and aren't even trying to get more serious games.

They aren't bad games though, that's the point, they just aren't games you enjoy. The fact that the casual game market is so huge now, and that Nintendo is making money hand-over-fist suggests that "hardcore" gamers are now, in fact, in the minority. And if you were to rate games based on popularity, such casual games would be the "good" games and more hardcore games are the "bad" games.
Granted, no single casual game alone tops any hardcore game, but there's so many different flavours of such games that they add up to huge numbers.
And again, if people are honestly enjoying the game, how can it possibly be considered bad?

They really are bad bad games! This is not subjective, it's fact!

The Wii has hundreds of so called games, which were obviously developed within weeks on a shoestring budget. At least that is the case in the UK.

You're absolutely right, they are bad games.

However, they're selling by the bucket load! People are buying them, and the fact that they keep buying them means that they must be enjoying them, yes? Therefore, they're producing games that people want. Those people might not be gamers like us - they might not sit glued to 8bit or 16bit emulators, or relive their youths in MAME (I suspect that most of them are under 16 years old) but they're still playing games and could be said to be gamers. Just not the same games that we enjoy.

I have a friend who absolutely loathes flash games, says they're crap because they look amateurish. Me, I fire up my Amiga emulator and see the games that were published by the major companies back in the day (Ocean, Psygnosis, Sensible, DMA Design et al) are pretty much the same quality as the flash games we're seeing plastered all over the web these days.

To my mind, many of the games we played 20 years ago would be classed as shovelware these days - with a few exceptions, of course

D.