Say That Op Were Bought Out?

[SomeGuy99]

These games are just thrown out like ripped fish nets hoping to net some money.

As someone who briefly worked at a game development studio, I can tell you this does happen.

The boss was a nice guy, but he tasked me with making a clone of some horse rearing game. He didn't even care if it was good, only about the revenue it would bring in. Me being me, I'd have wanted to research what those existing players would enjoy (I was just told 'little girls') and try to make something decent... but that would have been seen as wasting time. The company had a bigger title they'd been working on for years, but it was stuck in development hell. My boss, nice guy as he was, just wanted to bring some money in to keep the company ticking along okay... and I assume people in jobs. So he had good intentions, but it was unarguably cynical as hell. There was no respect at all for the customer, so far as I could tell.

 

[God Ginrai]

It's because of Nintendo that things are like this, because they are encouraging these bad games that are being put on their system, and aren't even trying to get more serious games.

They aren't bad games though, that's the point, they just aren't games you enjoy. The fact that the casual game market is so huge now, and that Nintendo is making money hand-over-fist suggests that "hardcore" gamers are now, in fact, in the minority. And if you were to rate games based on popularity, such casual games would be the "good" games and more hardcore games are the "bad" games.
Granted, no single casual game alone tops any hardcore game, but there's so many different flavours of such games that they add up to huge numbers.
And again, if people are honestly enjoying the game, how can it possibly be considered bad?

They really are bad bad games! This is not subjective, it's fact!

The Wii has hundreds of so called games, which were obviously developed within weeks on a shoestring budget. At least that is the case in the UK.

You're absolutely right, they are bad games.

However, they're selling by the bucket load! People are buying them, and the fact that they keep buying them means that they must be enjoying them, yes? Therefore, they're producing games that people want. Those people might not be gamers like us - they might not sit glued to 8bit or 16bit emulators, or relive their youths in MAME (I suspect that most of them are under 16 years old) but they're still playing games and could be said to be gamers. Just not the same games that we enjoy.

I have a friend who absolutely loathes flash games, says they're crap because they look amateurish. Me, I fire up my Amiga emulator and see the games that were published by the major companies back in the day (Ocean, Psygnosis, Sensible, DMA Design et al) are pretty much the same quality as the flash games we're seeing plastered all over the web these days.

To my mind, many of the games we played 20 years ago would be classed as shovelware these days - with a few exceptions, of course

D.

It's not how they look that bothers me, it's the quality, of which most of the games 20 years ago were overflowing with. Also, like I said, I don't shun the existence of such games; What bothers me is that Nintendo is catering to these people, and not even caring about the hardcore gamers. This is why there is a difference in the distribution of the games. I don't care if such games are made, because yes, there are "casual gamers" out there who like them. What bothers me is that they are pushing hardcore games away from the system, either by making developers develop for systems other than the Wii, or enticing them to stop producing well done games and start producing more "casual games".

-God Ginrai

 

[Dunny]

It's not how they look that bothers me, it's the quality, of which most of the games 20 years ago were overflowing with. Also, like I said, I don't shun the existence of such games; What bothers me is that Nintendo is catering to these people, and not even caring about the hardcore gamers. This is why there is a difference in the distribution of the games. I don't care if such games are made, because yes, there are "casual gamers" out there who like them. What bothers me is that they are pushing hardcore games away from the system, either by making developers develop for systems other than the Wii, or enticing them to stop producing well done games and start producing more "casual games".

I certainly can't disagree with you on the quality - they are dire, but they do sell. Anyhow - I would say that there is an appearance that Nintendo are favouring the shovellers ahead of the "real" (and I use that term loosely) gamers, but that might not be the case. New Super Mario Brothers, in my opinion, is a hardcore game - it gets very, very hard and requires real gaming skill to get through. You might disagree, but the fact stands that a game of that calibre will take a lot longer to develop than say, Barbie Horse Adventures VI. Hence, I think that a lot of shovelware games will be interspersed at long intervals by "proper" games that would appeal to you and I.

Looking at it from that perspective, I'd say that we're not being disfavoured, just that the games we demand take longer to develop.

D.

 

[Sphinxter]

It's a balance board... I'm sorry, but if you think those surfing/skateboarding games in the arcades that you stood on to play were excellent games, then you have some problems.
-God Ginrai

There I was thinking Taito's Water Ski simulator was one of the best arcade games ever. Lucky to have you to tell us what's fun and what isn't .

 

[God Ginrai]

It's not how they look that bothers me, it's the quality, of which most of the games 20 years ago were overflowing with. Also, like I said, I don't shun the existence of such games; What bothers me is that Nintendo is catering to these people, and not even caring about the hardcore gamers. This is why there is a difference in the distribution of the games. I don't care if such games are made, because yes, there are "casual gamers" out there who like them. What bothers me is that they are pushing hardcore games away from the system, either by making developers develop for systems other than the Wii, or enticing them to stop producing well done games and start producing more "casual games".

I certainly can't disagree with you on the quality - they are dire, but they do sell. Anyhow - I would say that there is an appearance that Nintendo are favouring the shovellers ahead of the "real" (and I use that term loosely) gamers, but that might not be the case. New Super Mario Brothers, in my opinion, is a hardcore game - it gets very, very hard and requires real gaming skill to get through. You might disagree, but the fact stands that a game of that calibre will take a lot longer to develop than say, Barbie Horse Adventures VI. Hence, I think that a lot of shovelware games will be interspersed at long intervals by "proper" games that would appeal to you and I.

Looking at it from that perspective, I'd say that we're not being disfavoured, just that the games we demand take longer to develop.

D.

I'm not saying the quality of their first party games have gone downhill. What I am saying is that they are encouraging the devolution of the third party entries. A console should have good first and third party games, but like I said for the Wii, the quality games are almost all first party.

It's a balance board... I'm sorry, but if you think those surfing/skateboarding games in the arcades that you stood on to play were excellent games, then you have some problems.
-God Ginrai

There I was thinking Taito's Water Ski simulator was one of the best arcade games ever. Lucky to have you to tell us what's fun and what isn't .

You're very welcome.

-God Ginrai

 

[LineOf7s]

Let me show you guys something.

I paid money for that game (on special), and for a time, my (admittedly young) kids loved it.

So ner!

 

[bzar]

I'm not saying the quality of their first party games have gone downhill. What I am saying is that they are encouraging the devolution of the third party entries. A console should have good first and third party games, but like I said for the Wii, the quality games are almost all first party.

Nintendo is not promoting shovelware. People buying shovelware are. If nintendo itself made shovelware the case would be different. Now, it's just the "larger audience", less time for games, and simple market economics. If you want a market to favor certain types of products, you need to pay more or be in the majority. So called "hardcore" games (time-consuming would be more accurate in most cases) are expensive to produce, have smaller user base (considering that "hardcore" players also buy "casual" titles) and require more marketing (due to tighter competition). It's sad, but inevitable. I like epic games with depth and quality as well. But like reality shows take up more and more air time from deeper and better quality programs, so does the shovelware spread. It's just economics.

 

[Pleng]

What bothers me is that Nintendo is catering to these people, and not even caring about the hardcore gamers.

This is just ridiculous. Nintendo are a commercial operation who have decided their market. They have no obligation to 'care' about hardcore gamers. They have decided this is not their target. And it's a strategy that seems to be paying off.

Sony and Microsoft are catering perfectly well for the hardcore gamers. Why do you feel Nintendo owes it to anybody to encourage these types of games on their system?

 

[God Ginrai]

I'm not saying the quality of their first party games have gone downhill. What I am saying is that they are encouraging the devolution of the third party entries. A console should have good first and third party games, but like I said for the Wii, the quality games are almost all first party.

Nintendo is not promoting shovelware. People buying shovelware are. If nintendo itself made shovelware the case would be different. Now, it's just the "larger audience", less time for games, and simple market economics. If you want a market to favor certain types of products, you need to pay more or be in the majority. So called "hardcore" games (time-consuming would be more accurate in most cases) are expensive to produce, have smaller user base (considering that "hardcore" players also buy "casual" titles) and require more marketing (due to tighter competition). It's sad, but inevitable. I like epic games with depth and quality as well. But like reality shows take up more and more air time from deeper and better quality programs, so does the shovelware spread. It's just economics.

It's never only the consumer at fault.

Why do you feel Nintendo owes it to anybody to encourage these types of games on their system?

So you're telling me it is not the responsibility of a company to put out a quality product? A Game console is only as good as the games in its library.

-God Ginrai

 

[Aninhumer]

So you're telling me it is not the responsibility of a company to put out a quality product? A Game console is only as good as the games in its library.
-God Ginrai

No, actually, it isn't the "responsibility" of a company to produce a quality product.
It's the responsibility of a company to maximise their profit, that's how capitalism works.
If a company can reduce quality and produce a product for a lower cost, but sell almost as much, that's good business practice.

I don't especially like it either, but companies are in no way obliged to produce what you or I want, and it's self centred to think so.
If you actually want to change anything, you'd need to convince the millions of people buying these "shovelware" games that they can do better.