RTS masters of the pandora community
- Thread starter keaft
- Start date
lulzfish
Pandora Defense Squad
keaft said:
I like RTS games, but I don't like space as a setting. It's just been done too much.
As a reference, I thought Rise of Legends and Lego Rock Raiders were very fun, and I'd still play them if they weren't so poorly implemented that they couldn't even run on WINE.
I like fantasy settings, but not space. It never seems to work out right, especially considering that space is 3D and video games, by and large, have a 2D playing field.
If it's not too late, you might take a poll to see what other people think. Just a general, "what do you like in a game theme? medieval / fantasy / space / realistic / futuristic" etc.
edit: No, I can't say I've played any space RTS games, but the idea of anything interesting in space is just too far-fetched. I prefer steampunk stuff to space.
Lulzfish has obviously never played Galactic Civilizations or Sins of a Solar Empire, two amazing and critically acclaimed 4X games based on a 2D field (in space).
The ideas of your game look great so far, and has a lot of depth. I don't know about all the different kinds of materials though, in SoaSE having ship building dependent on just two or three resources (metal, crystal, money) with limited availability made for a nerve-wracking experience, and a lot of time spent just looking at the counter.
The ideas of your game look great so far, and has a lot of depth. I don't know about all the different kinds of materials though, in SoaSE having ship building dependent on just two or three resources (metal, crystal, money) with limited availability made for a nerve-wracking experience, and a lot of time spent just looking at the counter.
cb88
The mighty inverse laplacinator
from your description homeworld is very similar (cataclysm anyway) ....lots of mining crystals (there is an option to disable it as well)
The battles a are a lot of fun... almost like tower defense in 3D
nothing shall withstand my bentusi dreadnought !!!
The battles a are a lot of fun... almost like tower defense in 3D
nothing shall withstand my bentusi dreadnought !!!
BackAssward
Active Member
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2008
- Messages
- 985
But he did miss out on Starcraft. The interface/controls is/are antiquated by modern standards but a damn fine game.
Slow paced RTS.Teajunky said:
I prefer either really slow paced or really fast paced.
Sins of a Solar Empire <<< Kohan II << [Other Games; tons of them] >> Red Alert 2 >>> Outpost II
(slow to fast
)In a slow paced RTS, as long as you're observant and understand the game mechanics, you can turn anything into a win.
In a fast paced RTS, as long as your strategy has some merit, and you can button mash faster than your opponent(s), you can turn anything into a win.
Mithrildor
I Haz Custom Title
fischju said:
Indeed best space game rts Ive ever played.
EDIT:
I read a week (or so) ago and I liked it, but its really really standard Age of Empires style, it needs a special game mechanic.
RavenX
Still Fresh
Personally my favorite FREE RTSes are from the Open Source Spring RTS project. The Spring engine plays many different RTSes based on some popular RTSes such as Total Annihilation and Supreme Commander, and some totally new ones. Unfortunately, I am afraid that the graphics MIGHT be a bit much for the Pandora, but I would love to see someone make an attempt to port it to the Pandora.
klikklak
Oh neat, it's a ... field.
Check out sword of the stars, with expansions (murder of crows) it runs nicely under wine. IMO better then Sins of a solar empire, even though I've only played a few games of each.
Sword is multiplayer oriented and very streamlined, I've yet to try the multiplayer, but I did appreciate the minimized micromanagement.
As for galciv2, it's unfortunate that it's so unstable under wine, I've never got further than colonizing a single planet before it crashes and restarting the game every time it happens is just too much.
EDIT: this was about RTS's, only the combat is RTS in Sword, the rest is turn based. Just the way I like it.
Sword is multiplayer oriented and very streamlined, I've yet to try the multiplayer, but I did appreciate the minimized micromanagement.
As for galciv2, it's unfortunate that it's so unstable under wine, I've never got further than colonizing a single planet before it crashes and restarting the game every time it happens is just too much.
EDIT: this was about RTS's, only the combat is RTS in Sword, the rest is turn based. Just the way I like it.
I miss the abilities.
what about tractor beams, cloaking devices, EMPs, warp(works like teleporting of course), tracking bots or whatever,
also I want a screen where you can have more control over your ships like: send 20% of troops here and create troops in this propotions and get a hold on whats idle etc...
what about tractor beams, cloaking devices, EMPs, warp(works like teleporting of course), tracking bots or whatever,
also I want a screen where you can have more control over your ships like: send 20% of troops here and create troops in this propotions and get a hold on whats idle etc...
Sins of a Solar Empire is one of the best I've played, It's got a good pace to let you keep track of everything that you need to. I actually prefer sci-fi/starship RTS to fantasy, the whole 2D/3D thing doesn't really bother me. Most interstellar astronomy is centered on the galactic disk, so it's not unnatural to think that much of 'traffic control' in a solar system would have a 2D influenced representation. That said, Homeworld had a very strong 3D element to it's interface.
----
One of the things I've never seen implemented is some sort of "AI Governor". Essentially something you could set on a per-planet basis that X percentage of the production goes to the empire's coffers, Y percentage goes to local defensive structures and ships (submenu to set options on what structures and ships) and Z percentage to planetary welfare, etc. etc. Basically keep track of all the 'constant grinding bookkeeping issues'. Research is a 'One Time' expense dealt with through imperial coffers, Interplanetary/Interstellar fleets are taken from the Imperial coffers, etc. etc. and are directly controlled by the player. You could 'turn off' the governor on any particular planet (Ie: the Imperium takes direct control of the local situation leaving the local officials as figureheads) and make all that planet's decisions manually.
Make it smart enough to know when there can be no more defensive structures, so it sets structures to 0, but sends it all to ships, when the planet cannot support any more defensive ships it shunts that money to planetary welfare and imperial coffers...
It's always bugged me that when I'm trying to redistribute ships to respond to a pirate/enemy invasion, other planets will finish what they are doing and send me a message about it -while I'm busy!-. And then when the crisis is over I have to browse through my empire to find the planets that finished their tasks (and have been done for the last game-year), meanwhile the computer AI has a ready list of idle planets and factories to redirect with all the processing cycles to do so before the alert message has finished playing on my screen about mine. Apparently with populations of a few billion people, not -one- of those lazy -------- in the local administration can take the initiative to start work on the necessary planetary upgrades, even in the name of "More Jobs".
----
Other thing: Imperial Guard. The Sardaukar Guard from Dune and the like. Elite warriors who directly serve the emperor without question, get he best equipment, and are feared inside and out of the empire for their effectiveness. Obviously not something you get to start with, but as part of the sci-tree advancement, then you set some percentage of a percentage of the Imperial Interstellar fleet to get untested prototy...err... 'upgrades' in equipment and brainwash..errr.. 'training'... yeah, that's it, 'upgrades' and 'training'.
----
Boarding actions. Homeworld had some good ideas, but most every military ship will have 'some' ability to board another ship. Upon capturing a ship, it's recent travels should clear up the 'fog of war' as its records are analyzed by the capturing vessel. Possibly other effects based on what ind of ship was captured (like an "Enigma Machine" being captured on a command or capital vessel). If a captured vessel can be brought back to a shipyard then the capturing force gets upgrades to the tech tree based on what the ship was equipped with (Not necessarily full upgrades, but a +20% bonus to each tech). If the factions have different tech-trees, then captured ships open the possibility of reverse-engineering other factions tech, so that an empire's tech tree can become a unique set instead of the same tree over and over again.
Of course this means there's actually a need to 'scuttle' ships before they're captured, and to send attack ships to destroy captured vessels before they escape....
----
I'd like to see it, but it adds a whole new mechanic to the game (A few games have flirted with the idea, but I've not seen one that really does it well): Detailed planetary invasion and conquest. Again another use for governors is to let the AI handle the piddling details of the empire while the emperor takes direct control of a local situation, or leave the AI ground commanders in charge of deployments. It wouldn't have to be as detailed as starcraft (Actually that level of detail would be detrimental IMO), but having the ability to control the makeup of the 103'rd Imperial Battalion (Ie: overall size, percentages of Infantry, Armor, Mecha, Air Support, Orbital Strike support, training and experience etc.) and determine which planets they are sent to, rather than just sending "Generic Troop Transport" full of generic "army" to fight generic "Planetary Defenses" etc. etc. etc. Obviously this means that there's a "Ground Force" tech tree in addition to the "Space Forces" "Political" and "Economic" ones.
But again this is a big addition to an existing space RTS, so it's more wild-wish-list than the others.
----
Anyway, My RTS wish-list.
$0.02.
----
One of the things I've never seen implemented is some sort of "AI Governor". Essentially something you could set on a per-planet basis that X percentage of the production goes to the empire's coffers, Y percentage goes to local defensive structures and ships (submenu to set options on what structures and ships) and Z percentage to planetary welfare, etc. etc. Basically keep track of all the 'constant grinding bookkeeping issues'. Research is a 'One Time' expense dealt with through imperial coffers, Interplanetary/Interstellar fleets are taken from the Imperial coffers, etc. etc. and are directly controlled by the player. You could 'turn off' the governor on any particular planet (Ie: the Imperium takes direct control of the local situation leaving the local officials as figureheads) and make all that planet's decisions manually.
Make it smart enough to know when there can be no more defensive structures, so it sets structures to 0, but sends it all to ships, when the planet cannot support any more defensive ships it shunts that money to planetary welfare and imperial coffers...
It's always bugged me that when I'm trying to redistribute ships to respond to a pirate/enemy invasion, other planets will finish what they are doing and send me a message about it -while I'm busy!-. And then when the crisis is over I have to browse through my empire to find the planets that finished their tasks (and have been done for the last game-year), meanwhile the computer AI has a ready list of idle planets and factories to redirect with all the processing cycles to do so before the alert message has finished playing on my screen about mine. Apparently with populations of a few billion people, not -one- of those lazy -------- in the local administration can take the initiative to start work on the necessary planetary upgrades, even in the name of "More Jobs".
----
Other thing: Imperial Guard. The Sardaukar Guard from Dune and the like. Elite warriors who directly serve the emperor without question, get he best equipment, and are feared inside and out of the empire for their effectiveness. Obviously not something you get to start with, but as part of the sci-tree advancement, then you set some percentage of a percentage of the Imperial Interstellar fleet to get untested prototy...err... 'upgrades' in equipment and brainwash..errr.. 'training'... yeah, that's it, 'upgrades' and 'training'.
----
Boarding actions. Homeworld had some good ideas, but most every military ship will have 'some' ability to board another ship. Upon capturing a ship, it's recent travels should clear up the 'fog of war' as its records are analyzed by the capturing vessel. Possibly other effects based on what ind of ship was captured (like an "Enigma Machine" being captured on a command or capital vessel). If a captured vessel can be brought back to a shipyard then the capturing force gets upgrades to the tech tree based on what the ship was equipped with (Not necessarily full upgrades, but a +20% bonus to each tech). If the factions have different tech-trees, then captured ships open the possibility of reverse-engineering other factions tech, so that an empire's tech tree can become a unique set instead of the same tree over and over again.
Of course this means there's actually a need to 'scuttle' ships before they're captured, and to send attack ships to destroy captured vessels before they escape....
----
I'd like to see it, but it adds a whole new mechanic to the game (A few games have flirted with the idea, but I've not seen one that really does it well): Detailed planetary invasion and conquest. Again another use for governors is to let the AI handle the piddling details of the empire while the emperor takes direct control of a local situation, or leave the AI ground commanders in charge of deployments. It wouldn't have to be as detailed as starcraft (Actually that level of detail would be detrimental IMO), but having the ability to control the makeup of the 103'rd Imperial Battalion (Ie: overall size, percentages of Infantry, Armor, Mecha, Air Support, Orbital Strike support, training and experience etc.) and determine which planets they are sent to, rather than just sending "Generic Troop Transport" full of generic "army" to fight generic "Planetary Defenses" etc. etc. etc. Obviously this means that there's a "Ground Force" tech tree in addition to the "Space Forces" "Political" and "Economic" ones.
But again this is a big addition to an existing space RTS, so it's more wild-wish-list than the others.
----
Anyway, My RTS wish-list.
$0.02.
No time to read everything, so I dont know if it's already been suggested, but:
I really find that RTS games get boring when there are resources involved too much. I much preferred the DoW system of capturing positions to get credits...it makes the game much more strategic. Perhaps you could use this instead, or at least have strategic points that give you a multiplier to the resources you collect or something?
That's all!
I really find that RTS games get boring when there are resources involved too much. I much preferred the DoW system of capturing positions to get credits...it makes the game much more strategic. Perhaps you could use this instead, or at least have strategic points that give you a multiplier to the resources you collect or something?
That's all!
Catch23 said:
I always found Starcraft to be to "Micro-Scaled" to make resource gathering make sense. Resource gathering makes sense in Sins of a Solar Empire and other Imperial Scale games, but when you're dealing with regimental level and below that kind of thing is taken care of by a completely different branch of government, much less any structure inside the military. A regiment on a border world might supplement their TO&E (Table of Organization and Equipment) with salvaged gear, and some creative workshop use, but full blown industrial production is generally a political not a military matter.
I actually liked MechCommander for small-scale RTS. It was never about setting up factories or mining resources, but you salvaged what you could, and bought the rest. In a more military setting you'd still salvage, but the requisitions level of command would refill your TO&E as long as the 'brass' thought it was worth the effort.
keaft said:
But is it as tasty as the Pandora?
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=924
keaft said:
If you worked it right, and this would make the engine even more huge, but this would be uber-awesome, Include the dirtside combat, and extend the flyer concept to ground-pounder vehicles and infantry.
I know "Ultimate Combat" tried it before, but they saddled that game with a horribly complicated user interface that was supposed to be a more "Realistic Simulator", Meanwhile back in the real world the Glass Cockpit systems are making military aircraft as simple to operate as a video game. With a decent -gaming- interface I think the concept would work.
We must set-up something unique ^^
One of my ideas long ago was to build a game up from scratch (using some stuff like Octave libs for easy computation of dynamic systems) that should have several different "levels": at upper levels, it would be a game like a "Simcity" one, you manage your resources, towns, production factories, and so on. On a lower level, you have to fight along some boundaries that divide your country with the enemy's one in a RTS-style: you tell your units where to move/attack/fight. The lower level (if any) would be those units being real 3rd people to whom your commands get shown with a "move here-move there" HUD.
The "world" would be something like a universe in OGame. With "scheduled" fights (EG: your troops will meet the enemy troops within XX minutes) and the result of a battle would be the mean of the results of let's say 5 matches played on a single map.
If we were able to get a decent map generator (like Age of Empires had) it might be interesting...
Probably too big. But we can still get something decent done by aiming to something a little easier.
One of my ideas long ago was to build a game up from scratch (using some stuff like Octave libs for easy computation of dynamic systems) that should have several different "levels": at upper levels, it would be a game like a "Simcity" one, you manage your resources, towns, production factories, and so on. On a lower level, you have to fight along some boundaries that divide your country with the enemy's one in a RTS-style: you tell your units where to move/attack/fight. The lower level (if any) would be those units being real 3rd people to whom your commands get shown with a "move here-move there" HUD.
The "world" would be something like a universe in OGame. With "scheduled" fights (EG: your troops will meet the enemy troops within XX minutes) and the result of a battle would be the mean of the results of let's say 5 matches played on a single map.
If we were able to get a decent map generator (like Age of Empires had) it might be interesting...
Probably too big. But we can still get something decent done by aiming to something a little easier.
parag0n
Member
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2005
- Messages
- 324
i used to play quite a lot of Battlezone / BZ2, and the thing i loved about it was that, even though the game was an RTS, you were able to hop into a spare ship, control it in a first person view, set a few units as your wingmen, then take the fight to the enemy.
I wish there was a BZIII
I wish there was a BZIII
There's a series of tabletop wargames that link well between space to dirtside combat, and they've put their rulesets out as free PDF files.
http://www.groundzerogames.net/index.ph ... &Itemid=50
They're good simple rulesets that might provide some inspiration.
Full Thrust is the space combat system
More Thrust is the FT expansion with orbital strike and landing crew rules
Dirtside II is the massed ground battle rules
Stargrunt II is the infantry-skirmish rules.
They're good rules, simple and quick to play on a table, low processor and memory requirements on a computer. They're not open content, so you'd have to get permission to use them as-written, but I post about them because the mechanics they use would be good inspiration for a multi-scaled RTS game, since there seems to be a lot of support for such a thing.
http://www.groundzerogames.net/index.ph ... &Itemid=50
They're good simple rulesets that might provide some inspiration.
Full Thrust is the space combat system
More Thrust is the FT expansion with orbital strike and landing crew rules
Dirtside II is the massed ground battle rules
Stargrunt II is the infantry-skirmish rules.
They're good rules, simple and quick to play on a table, low processor and memory requirements on a computer. They're not open content, so you'd have to get permission to use them as-written, but I post about them because the mechanics they use would be good inspiration for a multi-scaled RTS game, since there seems to be a lot of support for such a thing.
builtofire
Still Fresh
- Joined
- May 8, 2009
- Messages
- 1
ok,
idea 1 : personally i enjoy the RPG part in the strategy (i believe this is why Warcraft 3 and Wow are so popular), so the first thing is that there should be Hero ships that can gain level and learn abilities and do self development (flexible one), i would prefer all the ships to gain experience and do the mentioned above.
idea 2 : if you played Final Fantasy XII there is the gambits (a set of rules how the hero should behave in the battle, when to cure, whom to attack, whom to defend, when to retreat ....) .
idea 3 : the Sins of the Solar empire geografical map is pretty ok and the resource management is ok too but i also like the Dawn of Empire resource management system.
idea 4 : having artifacts that will improve the Hero abilities.
idea 5 : You have to understand you want a more fighting RTS or a more economy centric one, personally i prefer the RPG side in the strategy, the story line is very important.
idea 6: ground battles ????
this is it thank you, and have a nice day.
h34r: h34r: h34r: h34r: h34r: h34r: h34r: h34r: h34r: h34r: h34r: h34r: h34r: h34r: h34r:
:wacko: :wacko: :wacko: :wacko: :wacko: :wacko: :wacko: :wacko: :wacko: :wacko: :wacko: :wacko: :wacko: :wacko: :wacko:
idea 1 : personally i enjoy the RPG part in the strategy (i believe this is why Warcraft 3 and Wow are so popular), so the first thing is that there should be Hero ships that can gain level and learn abilities and do self development (flexible one), i would prefer all the ships to gain experience and do the mentioned above.
idea 2 : if you played Final Fantasy XII there is the gambits (a set of rules how the hero should behave in the battle, when to cure, whom to attack, whom to defend, when to retreat ....) .
idea 3 : the Sins of the Solar empire geografical map is pretty ok and the resource management is ok too but i also like the Dawn of Empire resource management system.
idea 4 : having artifacts that will improve the Hero abilities.
idea 5 : You have to understand you want a more fighting RTS or a more economy centric one, personally i prefer the RPG side in the strategy, the story line is very important.
idea 6: ground battles ????
this is it thank you, and have a nice day.
h34r: h34r: h34r: h34r: h34r: h34r: h34r: h34r: h34r: h34r: h34r: h34r: h34r: h34r: h34r: :wacko: :wacko: :wacko: :wacko: :wacko: :wacko: :wacko: :wacko: :wacko: :wacko: :wacko: :wacko: :wacko: :wacko: :wacko:
