Question On Ordering Board Only

[darkblu]

Is anyone else thinking of doing a setup like this or just waiting until someone makes a box/handheld that can do this? Also, is the OP team thinking of selling a naked board later on?

yes siree. i've been running an ultra-low-power naked board for the same purposes you describe (low power-draw, still reasonable computing power, 24/7 online) for more than a year now.

it's an efika 5200B - the SoC on it is rated at ~1W, and a setup with a 2.5" hdd is rated at ~4W. i also have a passively-cooled radeon in the peripheral slot (the most power-hungry part by far, easilly x4 the rest), but i keep it at a text console at most times (or headless, for that matter). just to give you an idea how little it consumes - when i get momentary power outages (old apartment building, frequent power dips) and everything else goes down, incl my wii *and* my router, the efika just registers the eth disconnect and continues to chug happily on whatever crumps of voltage it can still find in the PSU capacitors and/or dripping off the powergrid. i sometimes forget the thing actually needs to be fed electricity ; )

 

[mali]

I doubt any of those big players will have the gaming controls though. Our 'cube' would still have the keypad and gaming controls, it would pretty much just be the lower half of the pandora, which if you wanted to play games you could just pick up like a joypad and use it.

I don't want to discredit your idea, I just don't think it would recover the costs. Leaving the controls on the device wouldn't make much sense with a bunch of cables running out of it. A plain black box with some USB ports and a $15 USB game controller would blow it away. You would have to redesign the whole thing with proper ports like decent Wifi antenna, some more USB ports, ethernet, HDMI and whatnot the competition will offer. It's basically a good idea to have a box where you can put on Pandora software and connect it to a TV, but it might be better just to buy something like that in bulk from an ODM and sell it in your shop instead of creating something yourself. You should concentrate on handhelds. Learn to do something _really_ good first and expand your portfolio later. Just an advice, no rant or anything

 

[Ravnos]

I built an ION-based computer for the exact concerns you mentioned. I did the math, and leaving my beastly desktop on 24/7 would cost me roughly $40 a month, where the ION desktop I built (for around $300 at newegg -- you could build one for less, though, since I put a dual-core Atom 330, 2GB memory and a 1TB HDD in mine to use it as a HTPC as well) should only cost $4 a month. It should pay for itself relatively quickly, and I get the added bonus of the HTPC bit of it.

PS: If the HTPC side of things appeals to you, I would HIGHLY recommend the Zotac ION boards -- they have built-in HDMI, 802.11n, and Optical/Co-axial audio. I'm very pleased with mine.

I've got a Zotac ION board as an HTPC and it's pretty great, but I've been having overheating problems. I've got a really tight case, though, so I'm guessing once I get a bigger case with a half-decent fan inside, my problems should be solved. So basically my advice with a Zotac ION would be to not get a tiny-ass case.

I'm actually interested in an ARM Cortex board with dual ethernet ports, if there's one available. I haven't looked, but I have my doubts.

 

[second exodous]

I built an ION-based computer for the exact concerns you mentioned. I did the math, and leaving my beastly desktop on 24/7 would cost me roughly $40 a month, where the ION desktop I built (for around $300 at newegg -- you could build one for less, though, since I put a dual-core Atom 330, 2GB memory and a 1TB HDD in mine to use it as a HTPC as well) should only cost $4 a month. It should pay for itself relatively quickly, and I get the added bonus of the HTPC bit of it.

PS: If the HTPC side of things appeals to you, I would HIGHLY recommend the Zotac ION boards -- they have built-in HDMI, 802.11n, and Optical/Co-axial audio. I'm very pleased with mine.

I've got a Zotac ION board as an HTPC and it's pretty great, but I've been having overheating problems. I've got a really tight case, though, so I'm guessing once I get a bigger case with a half-decent fan inside, my problems should be solved. So basically my advice with a Zotac ION would be to not get a tiny-ass case.

I'm actually interested in an ARM Cortex board with dual ethernet ports, if there's one available. I haven't looked, but I have my doubts.

Gumstix has a dual eth board, it's the tobi-dual, but that board doesn't have a HDMI out and I don't think you can add one. I haven't looked into adding multiple boards yet.

 

[Gary13579]

Don't get a Gumstix for this, please. You'll be overpaying for inferior hardware. Go with a BeagleBoard. Gumstix is designed mostly for robotics and small electronics that a BB layout couldn't possibly fit in.

Main reason I want to go gumstix, and I'm embarrassed to say this really, is the Ethernet port. I still go to houses that don't have wireless and the only way to get anything off of their computers or use the internet at their house is through a Ethernet hub. Beyond that when I added up everything that the BB didn't have to the price it came out a lot closer than it looks on the surface. You're correct though, I will definitely look into price before I buy anything.

USB hub (which you'll need anyway) + http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.2797 .

 

[Tor]

For wired Ethernet I'll be using my Apple USB Ethernet dongle. It works out of the box on Linux devices (including the BB), and has in addition helped me when installing new desktop computers where the installation image didn't have support for the (too new) on-board Ethernet. (Later, when everything's up, I could just download a new kernel or build one, after that I could remove the USB dongle).

This thing is cheap and easy to carry around for when it's needed. Besides, it was actually possible to find in a nearby shop. Other places could list USB Ethernet dongles, but wouldn't have them in stock. As there are Macbooks without built-in Ethernet any Apple shop will have these USB dongles in stock.

Edit: Forgot to mention that this dongle is USB 2.0, so should work with the Panda without a hub.

 

[craigix]

I doubt any of those big players will have the gaming controls though. Our 'cube' would still have the keypad and gaming controls, it would pretty much just be the lower half of the pandora, which if you wanted to play games you could just pick up like a joypad and use it.

I don't want to discredit your idea, I just don't think it would recover the costs. Leaving the controls on the device wouldn't make much sense with a bunch of cables running out of it. A plain black box with some USB ports and a $15 USB game controller would blow it away. You would have to redesign the whole thing with proper ports like decent Wifi antenna, some more USB ports, ethernet, HDMI and whatnot the competition will offer. It's basically a good idea to have a box where you can put on Pandora software and connect it to a TV, but it might be better just to buy something like that in bulk from an ODM and sell it in your shop instead of creating something yourself. You should concentrate on handhelds. Learn to do something _really_ good first and expand your portfolio later. Just an advice, no rant or anything

Well we would recover the costs because, well, there would not be any. It would just be the lower part of the Pandora with a modified back panel.

What you are suggesting would cost well over $100,000. That would be a bad move.

 

[WizardStan]

Well we would recover the costs because, well, there would not be any. It would just be the lower part of the Pandora with a modified back panel.

I don't think "just the lower part" would be useful, though, is what I think Mali is getting at.
Why a Pandora Cube when any other mini computer with a wireless keyboard and gamepad can be just as good?
"Just the lower part" with HDMI or component video is what it would take, at minimum. The OS would then still have to give software the 800x480 fullscreen resolution, and the video out would "do the right thing" to the TV, whatever that right thing would be (stretch or letter box, or whatever is chosen)
Point is that there should probably be at least some cost, but if you can do that, get a proper working HDTV output (which I was still struggling with my BeagleBoard before it went in for repair (get well soon, little computer )) then you can consider me at least one sale.

 

[Trip]

I don't think "just the lower part" would be useful, though, is what I think Mali is getting at.
Why a Pandora Cube when any other mini computer with a wireless keyboard and gamepad can be just as good?
"Just the lower part" with HDMI or component video is what it would take, at minimum. The OS would then still have to give software the 800x480 fullscreen resolution, and the video out would "do the right thing" to the TV, whatever that right thing would be (stretch or letter box, or whatever is chosen)
Point is that there should probably be at least some cost, but if you can do that, get a proper working HDTV output (which I was still struggling with my BeagleBoard before it went in for repair (get well soon, little computer )) then you can consider me at least one sale.

From what I can gather, the whole point of the Pandora cube would be to give people a lower cost alternative to the Pandora that is 100% compatible with it.
This would be useful for devs that couldn't afford to pay out for a full on Pandora and people who wanted a Pandora to leave at home.
Anyone with kids would also appreciate being able to buy a cheaper version for the kids to use. That way the grown ups get to play with their own toys for once

 

[WizardStan]

From what I can gather, the whole point of the Pandora cube would be to give people a lower cost alternative to the Pandora that is 100% compatible with it.
This would be useful for devs that couldn't afford to pay out for a full on Pandora and people who wanted a Pandora to leave at home.
Anyone with kids would also appreciate being able to buy a cheaper version for the kids to use. That way the grown ups get to play with their own toys for once

Hence why it needs to still have the 800x480 fullscreen. Adding additional resolutions in desktop mode doesn't seem like it would break compatibility, it would just enhance existing features.

 

[mali]

Well we would recover the costs because, well, there would not be any. It would just be the lower part of the Pandora with a modified back panel.

What you are suggesting would cost well over $100,000. That would be a bad move.

Ok, if you don't change anything, then there would be no costs, but I doubt that it would sell too well
I thought the idea behind this Pandora Cube would be to establish a full fledged stationary gaming console that runs Pandora Software.
An Open Source console would surely get attention, especially if there is already an Open Source software selection that just had to be moved over or downloaded from the repo. You know the endless discussions about a missing digital output, so the discussions would just repeat itself with a half-baked attempt like this

 

[Ravnos]

I built an ION-based computer for the exact concerns you mentioned. I did the math, and leaving my beastly desktop on 24/7 would cost me roughly $40 a month, where the ION desktop I built (for around $300 at newegg -- you could build one for less, though, since I put a dual-core Atom 330, 2GB memory and a 1TB HDD in mine to use it as a HTPC as well) should only cost $4 a month. It should pay for itself relatively quickly, and I get the added bonus of the HTPC bit of it.

PS: If the HTPC side of things appeals to you, I would HIGHLY recommend the Zotac ION boards -- they have built-in HDMI, 802.11n, and Optical/Co-axial audio. I'm very pleased with mine.

I've got a Zotac ION board as an HTPC and it's pretty great, but I've been having overheating problems. I've got a really tight case, though, so I'm guessing once I get a bigger case with a half-decent fan inside, my problems should be solved. So basically my advice with a Zotac ION would be to not get a tiny-ass case.

I'm actually interested in an ARM Cortex board with dual ethernet ports, if there's one available. I haven't looked, but I have my doubts.

Gumstix has a dual eth board, it's the tobi-dual, but that board doesn't have a HDMI out and I don't think you can add one. I haven't looked into adding multiple boards yet.

I didn't realize the Gumstix was a Cortex, I was under the impression it was either ARM9 or ARM11. HDMI out doesn't matter for this box, it would be headless anyway.

 

[second exodous]

I built an ION-based computer for the exact concerns you mentioned. I did the math, and leaving my beastly desktop on 24/7 would cost me roughly $40 a month, where the ION desktop I built (for around $300 at newegg -- you could build one for less, though, since I put a dual-core Atom 330, 2GB memory and a 1TB HDD in mine to use it as a HTPC as well) should only cost $4 a month. It should pay for itself relatively quickly, and I get the added bonus of the HTPC bit of it.

PS: If the HTPC side of things appeals to you, I would HIGHLY recommend the Zotac ION boards -- they have built-in HDMI, 802.11n, and Optical/Co-axial audio. I'm very pleased with mine.

I've got a Zotac ION board as an HTPC and it's pretty great, but I've been having overheating problems. I've got a really tight case, though, so I'm guessing once I get a bigger case with a half-decent fan inside, my problems should be solved. So basically my advice with a Zotac ION would be to not get a tiny-ass case.

I'm actually interested in an ARM Cortex board with dual ethernet ports, if there's one available. I haven't looked, but I have my doubts.

Gumstix has a dual eth board, it's the tobi-dual, but that board doesn't have a HDMI out and I don't think you can add one. I haven't looked into adding multiple boards yet.

I didn't realize the Gumstix was a Cortex, I was under the impression it was either ARM9 or ARM11. HDMI out doesn't matter for this box, it would be headless anyway.

The Overo COMs are, they're the newer ones, but new in this case is pretty old. They are over priced though, but they're a little smaller than the BBs and have more on them.

 

[Gary13579]

I'd hardly say they have 'more on them', that's only the case if you purchase a ton of addon boards, and then it is bigger than the BeagleBoard. The only thing I can think of the BB doesn't have stock is the BT/WiFi on the Overo Fire.

But if you want USB, HDMI out, standard SD (not micro)... you're going to end up spending 5 times the cost of a BB on addon boards. Just get a BB, Overo is ONLY worth the price if the basic board has everything you need and the BB is too large.

 

[second exodous]

I'd hardly say they have 'more on them', that's only the case if you purchase a ton of addon boards, and then it is bigger than the BeagleBoard. The only thing I can think of the BB doesn't have stock is the BT/WiFi on the Overo Fire.

But if you want USB, HDMI out, standard SD (not micro)... you're going to end up spending 5 times the cost of a BB on addon boards. Just get a BB, Overo is ONLY worth the price if the basic board has everything you need and the BB is too large.

Well, a BB costs $149 and a Overo™ Fire Gumstix with the Tobi adds up to $290 so it's a little under double. You do have to factor in buying BT, WiFi, and ehternet USB adapters for the BB to give it everything that the gumstix has so that adds some to the price of the BB, not much but some.

The BB is 76.2mm x 76.2mm or a area of 5806.44mm
The Tobi is 105mm x 40mm or has an area of 4200mm

So the Overo™ Fire with the Tobi starts out smaller and already has ethernet, wifi, and BT. Those addons add quite a bit of size to the BB once you consider you need to add them plus the USB hub to plug them in. USB takes CPU cycles to use also so the BB will be a little slower once you add all this (I'm not 100% sure of this, but the USB bus dictates this).

Also, one more thing is the Tobi has all the connections coming out one side so it's a little more convenient to make a box with. The Beagle Board has connections coming out 3 sides making it a little awkward.

So there are ups and downs to both of these products to be sure. Software wise the Gumstix boards won't be as well documented where everyone owns a BB. Upgrade wise the BB can't be upgraded, if there is a OMAP4 BB you'll have to buy a new board. Gumstix is fairly certain that that the daughter boards will work with OMAP4 COMs so that will save you $70 bucks on an upgrade. So yeah, plus and minuses.

 

[Nation.A.List]

I'll throw this into the mix http://www.igep-platform.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=46&Itemid=55

 

[second exodous]

Ah, that sucks I live in the US, it's in euros so I don't think I can get one. That's one cool board.

 

[efegea]

I'm thinking on buying this http://www.armdesigner.com/KIT%20OMAP3530.html the kit with the 7" 800x480 touchscreen, 249$, for building a kind of tablet with gaming controls, pandora software compatible.

The standalone board is much cheaper, 169$

 

[Nation.A.List]

Ah, that sucks I live in the US, it's in euros so I don't think I can get one. That's one cool board.

They ship to the USA for around €25. €145 for the 720Mhz version (go on, you know you want to)

EDIT: Just seen the $/€ is approx 1.5 - WOW what happened to 1/1? (too interested in the £/$ to notice €/$)

 

[amf66]

Ah, that sucks I live in the US, it's in euros so I don't think I can get one. That's one cool board.

They ship to the USA for around €25. €145 for the 720Mhz version (go on, you know you want to)

EDIT: Just seen the $/€ is approx 1.5 - WOW what happened to 1/1? (too interested in the £/$ to notice €/$)

It's been like that for a LONG time as far as I know. I don't remember it ever being 1:1 Euro to dollar.