levi
Still fresh, damnit!
I still like to complain about SELinux whenever I have the misfortune to come across it to be fair.
Pyra debian with systemd?
- Thread starter Orbstheorem
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rygD
Nihilistic Mystic
I complain.
Wouldn't someone choosing to use Linux at all be a hipster, then, unless it is for "reasons"?
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Yes, it's a big hipster recursive mess. hipsters within hipster communities.
rygD
Nihilistic Mystic
Stupid Linux hipsters.
Grench
Forum Addict!
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- Oct 3, 2008
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So - can we complain that there is not a centralized distribution to rally the Linux community around for a 'standard'?
Oh... Hmm... Ubuntu?
So - can we complain that no PC manufacturers sell hardware with Linux pre-installed?
Oh... Hmm... Dell laptops?
So - can we complain that the most popular distribution of Linux has an abysmal default UI?
Yes - we can. Ubuntu's Unity still sucks. But it's so easily replaced using Mint - but why bother going through Ubuntu at all instead of just using Debian? OK, lets do that.
So - can we go back to complaining about how there are no commercial games on Linux?
Oh... Hmm... Valve's Steam?
So - can we complain instead about how commercial games on Linux handle licensing?
May as well complain to a wall. Companies with IP want to preserve and monetize that IP. Celebrate that we're getting commercial quality games instead.
What IS a proper Linux hipster supposed to complain about these days? Everything is working far too well and all of the shortcomings of the past seem to have vanished.
So - I guess it's time to complain about all of these new-to-Linux wannabe fanboys with no appreciation for how hard I/we/they struggled to get here. These young'uns just don't appreciate the pain and late morning hours spent trying to debug fan control on a noisy server that made my basement computer lab uninhabitable and while they're at it, GET OFF MY LAWN!
Oh... Hmm... Ubuntu?
So - can we complain that no PC manufacturers sell hardware with Linux pre-installed?
Oh... Hmm... Dell laptops?
So - can we complain that the most popular distribution of Linux has an abysmal default UI?
Yes - we can. Ubuntu's Unity still sucks. But it's so easily replaced using Mint - but why bother going through Ubuntu at all instead of just using Debian? OK, lets do that.
So - can we go back to complaining about how there are no commercial games on Linux?
Oh... Hmm... Valve's Steam?
So - can we complain instead about how commercial games on Linux handle licensing?
May as well complain to a wall. Companies with IP want to preserve and monetize that IP. Celebrate that we're getting commercial quality games instead.
What IS a proper Linux hipster supposed to complain about these days? Everything is working far too well and all of the shortcomings of the past seem to have vanished.
So - I guess it's time to complain about all of these new-to-Linux wannabe fanboys with no appreciation for how hard I/we/they struggled to get here. These young'uns just don't appreciate the pain and late morning hours spent trying to debug fan control on a noisy server that made my basement computer lab uninhabitable and while they're at it, GET OFF MY LAWN!
Sorry to crush your hopes. It won't, or at least not primarily.I hope the pyra uses docker
Edit: But the .dbp system is good, too.
tigerroast
YOUNG VORHEES
I'd rather stick to Unity than an unmaintained fork of a DE that's called "stable." Android and Apple can get away with delicious-sounding nicknames and not sit stagnant like a box of sugar-coated lard squares.
It's so easy to install other DEs on Ubuntu (or even just picking an Ubuntu spin with a different default DE).
Meh...
DRM-free and client-independent commercial games for a DRM-free OS:
https://www.gog.com/games?system=lin_mint,lin_ubuntu
https://www.humblebundle.com/store/search/platform/linux/drm/download/sort/bestselling
And for each one of these products there is (was?) legitimate grounds of complaint.
SELinux is not the bomb and actually a strap-on that still does not work right. And hard to get right (try to protect software that does not take it into consideration. Some just run stuff as root and do not feel the pain... but if you make a special user the software must run under... so many cases to consider).
Pulse still is cause for problems (although the fact that it is dog-slow is mitigated now with faster machines). Rhythmbox now finally started working with it (in the past I had to kill pulse to get some sound)
udev took a while before it got stable (lost some data years ago)...
and systemd... aargh... so much work to be re-done before it starts working. At the moment it is getting there... but I still need the training to debug it when things go wrong...
It pays not being early adopter...
My beef with systemd is that it is assimilating and growing, growing, growing... just like a windows registry... borg
http://www.infoworld.com/article/2608798/data-center/systemd--harbinger-of-the-linux-apocalypse.html
That, plus the fact that I can not audit it (yes, it comes with tools for that, but then you also trust the tools, so why audit?)
I now fear the HTTP2 header changes (from text to packed binary data... smaller, unreadable...). It will be like the w2k bug... lots of work on lots of software.
As long as they don't take away my HTTP 418-Im-a-Teapot error, I'm fine with it...
Mint is in a pinch... either start backporting bugfixes and basically spend lots of resources keeping it alive as the only maintainer, or move to the next gtk.... which... well... let's say I installed a VM with a new flavour of Ubuntu... and then deleted the image because it was a waste of space (and I tend to keep all my images, you never know...) (*I use Debian an Mate, considering Devuan; I use caja and dolphin side-by-side, Kruzader as a MC that can synchronize between the Pandora SD and the local directories)
Give me stability over functionality any time of day... I love small DE's... less drastic changes, configurations keep working *(how many times did I had to throw away my .kde because the old config broke things so badly. .gnome2 does a better job)
I like IceWM. The way you can overload everything, keyboard-bind so many things... and blazing fast. Sure, I do not get compiz nor shadows and such, but it's responsive, and I get work done.
[doublepost=1464392609,1464392254][/doublepost]
RHCE: RygD Hipster Certified Entity
Give me steam
And how you feel to make it real
Real as anything you've seen
Get a life with this dreamer's dream
Read more: Peter Gabriel - Steam Lyrics | MetroLyrics
http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/Qt87bLX7m_o/hqdefault.jpg
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tigerroast
YOUNG VORHEES
I have zero problems with that sensibility. Absolutely none. That's perfectly acceptable. Not everyone needs the pretty shiny and I get that.
What Cinnamon's problem is is that it's a forked GNOME3 focused on UI. You probably already know this, but it does need mentioning: trying to maintain (or cut down, for that matter) a GNOME3-sized codebase with a Cinnamon-sized dev team is like a CrossFitter trying to deadlift without bouncing+hitching+ramping the bar while not rounding their back. Or like a 5-year-old trying to scale Pikes Peak.
And guess what? It shows. Outside of syntax corrections, adding code to interact with the other dozen GNOME3-forked apps and trying to beautify everything, nothing else gets updated. Old != stability.
It's not like they gain anything from doing this apart from extra work they're apparently unwilling to do. They don't even want (read: unable to implement) Wayland.
The cherry on top of this sundae is that Budgie accomplishes everything Cinnamon wants to, with deadly efficiency, with a smaller dev team (2, maybe 3 people?), with a clearer, narrower goal in mind: make the UI as smooth and modern and easy-to-use as possible while letting GNOME square the underlying tech away. It's not a forked GNOME3 focused on UI; it's a new UI focused on leveraging the advantages of GNOME3.
Absolutely zero problems with that either. XFCE is fantastic. Unlike Cinnamon, the only things that don't get updated are things that don't need to be changed (links, bindings to apps that don't break said bindings, etc.).
If that's not light enough for you, then I reckon Awesome or i3(-derived WMs) or even dwm aren't too much heavier than IceWM.
This is true, although I cannot speak for KDE outside of my experiences with KaOS (which is very pleasant). I like GNOME though.
levi
Still fresh, damnit!
I do not need functionality, so I omit to installing packages. I do still like to get the latest bugfixes, and functionality for the things I do use. On my dev server I just run sshd and tmux on login. On top of that, vim splits and tabs make it pretty easy to keep on top of a fairly large codebase. There's a lot of key shortcuts to learn that way, but the muscle memory soon learns.
rygD
Nihilistic Mystic
@FBnil, some great points, and several I agree with (and on Pulse, even Slackware has it out of the box with 14.2, and I can't think of a more conservative distro), and a couple where I think you are just scratching the surface. Despite how I may reply to certain things, I appreciate all the new things that come along, and all the people that test...er, use stuff to get things sorted and to a state where there are no problems. I don't like that stiff getting pushed out to production systems before it is ready, and I think it is worse that along with that a lot of knowledge and experience gets thrown out. As I said in another thread recently, if you pay me I will use whatever you tell me to use on your hardware, and this is part of what I enjoy (because I get to do new things), until the people that are supposed to know more than me don't. Change for the sake of change is a bad idea with these things.
I still think his original comment applies to me, but that comes from the reasons that led me to stick with *nix. If you change things too much it is no longer what kept me around, but luckily there are people working on meeting those that feel like this in the middle. It also gives the new stuff time to mature, and the rest of us can catch up on the knowledge (which really doesn't matter as much for strictly personal use).
It was actually TrashyMG that helped me identify that many of us are hipsters. Too bad that status doesn't actually include that cert (RHCE) with it.
I still think his original comment applies to me, but that comes from the reasons that led me to stick with *nix. If you change things too much it is no longer what kept me around, but luckily there are people working on meeting those that feel like this in the middle. It also gives the new stuff time to mature, and the rest of us can catch up on the knowledge (which really doesn't matter as much for strictly personal use).
bzar
A Commando
If the main reason for using it is just to be different, then yes. It's the motivation that counts.
hns
Well-Known Member
When I first tried Jessie (pre-release) systemd didn't boot and I had no chance of fixing anything because I didn't know how it works (compared to init).
Therefore I built a Jessie w/o systemd for our Pyra hardware testing purposes and still use that (never touch a running system if you want to debug something else).
ED and aTc have built a systemd based Jessie for the Pyra.
Interestingly, both work fine now!
And - something I didn't expect - systemd boots faster (apparently more parallelism in initializing subsystems).
So my conclusion: it doesn't matter in terms of stability and functionality (after booting).
Therefore I built a Jessie w/o systemd for our Pyra hardware testing purposes and still use that (never touch a running system if you want to debug something else).
ED and aTc have built a systemd based Jessie for the Pyra.
Interestingly, both work fine now!
And - something I didn't expect - systemd boots faster (apparently more parallelism in initializing subsystems).
So my conclusion: it doesn't matter in terms of stability and functionality (after booting).
Have heared that a few times, I will check it out when I make the time
Interesting. I'll try that out now... Get:1 http://ftp.nl.debian.org/debian/ jessie/main tmux amd64 1.9-6 [245 kB]
I think you say "hypocrites" because of the hipster duality: Technically conformists within their own subculture, but pioneers and leaders of the latest cultural trends and ideals. As such, I do not condone Apple-fanboi's (/girls). They have a perceived added value to the product they buy. Maybe the urge to belong to a sub-group. Or the simpleness/easyness of having "one way to do things" (Linux has overlapping functionality). And that the (selected) hardware "just works" (while Linux supports most of the rest of the hardware). An thus, I find them diametrically opposed to the bazar Linux spirit. However, there IS crosspolination. We use GUI's copied from Windows/Macintosh, they use Linux core (Azure, iOS9).
I think Apple followers lack the right set of ideals, but they are ideals none the less. As for "pioneers", well, I had to sit down and use their mouse... and get lessons in using it. You see, there are no buttons and no scroll wheel (and no tactile feedback), it is "multi touch", and thus, you scroll with 2 fingers, you pinch and expand to zoom stuff... so pretty advanced when it came out.
That is good/surprising to hear. I always was doubtful it would be faster than dash with & (run in background) ...
Djoga'Ro
moonstruck
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2016
- Messages
- 2,504
First quarter last year I wanted to start using linux and went with Manjaro. It was all fine and worked until some update broke my system. It didn't boot successfully anymore. So, since there's a thread for every update in the Manjaro forum, I tried to get help there. And people were trying to help with recommendations like downgrading, switching the whole system to the test branch (for it has the next kernel) - basically ways to try to avoid the problem, which bothered me, since I wanted to find out, what is causing the problem. I offered myself as a test bitch, someone to tell what settings/debug modes to try, which logs to parse for what, but nothing. No one bothered to pick up on that. Felt like MS forums, but not like what I would have expected from the Linux croud.
By then I learned about systemd, and although I'm not blaming it for the problem (I still don't know, what the cause was) I have a strong feeling, that it's to blame for blocking actual diagnostics. Am I wrong?
Well, be it as it may. I read up on systemd since - what the yeasayers have to offer and what the critiques say - and I conclude, that I don't like it. It's the How, that I'm not willing to condone.
By then I learned about systemd, and although I'm not blaming it for the problem (I still don't know, what the cause was) I have a strong feeling, that it's to blame for blocking actual diagnostics. Am I wrong?
Well, be it as it may. I read up on systemd since - what the yeasayers have to offer and what the critiques say - and I conclude, that I don't like it. It's the How, that I'm not willing to condone.
Can't be much worse than the Mint forums...
