Pyra and Brexit

[HelenF]

As a Brit, I've been watching the Brexit debacle with utter dismay, and I'm a little concerned that:-
a) No deal will be the outcome of the "negotiations", leaving us on WTO rules from 1st Jan 2021
b) The Pyra will ship and land on these shores after this date

Any other Brits in the same predicament? And has anyone any idea on what the extra tariff/import costs will be?

Fellow Mancunian here. I can only hope that, in the case of no-deal, customs would be applied on anything that has been shipped after the cut-off date.
Also I'd rather pay a top fee to ED for super-duper high priority courier delivery that could have the pyra delivered before the 31st.
Else, I'd rather have ED keep the pyra in Ingolstadt so I can fly there and pick it up myself early next year

Sorry about Brexit. It can be tricky because the prepayment was done in the EU and the last payment and delivery not, so what's exactly the import to declare to customs and how to count tariff and taxes ?

The preorder is a voucher and was charged without VAT, so probably just counts as money. Anyway, it's the value of the item that matters for import. I wonder what happens if the item is paid and shipped before the transition but arrives at the border afterwards (though that's not likely).

Tariffs on goods imported into the UK

How to check the tariff rates that apply to goods you import.

www.gov.uk

I checked that page today and it said tariffs from Germany in the case of No Deal haven't been decided yet. Currently when ordering from outside the EU, you pay the VAT at the border instead of paying it to the retailer. If you have to pay anything at import, there is also a customs handling fee from the carrier. IIRC, ED is limited in available shipping services for the Pyra due to the coronavirus situation, and for those higher-priority shipping services the customs handling fee tends to be rather large.

 

[Phlyra]

A simplified version of the EU’s Brexshit Preparedness Notices from September 2019:

https://ec.europa.eu/info/sites/info/files/brexit-preparedness-communications-checklist_v3_en.pdf

Post automatically merged: Dec 19, 2020

More contingency measures, including for “no deal”:

Consequences of Brexit

Consequences for public administrations, businesses and citizens of the EU

ec.europa.eu

 

[HelenF]

After searching around a bit, I'm not sure whether or not tariffs are the same thing as import duty, or whether that's the same as "third country duty" which appears to be normally zero for laptops and cell phones. I once got charged a second import tax along with VAT on a DVD course shipped from the US, which I'm now wondering if it was a mistake (but too late to do anything about it now if it was).

And if I was thinking of asking ED for any Pandora repairs, I should have done that ages ago. Looks like in principle sending in an item temporarily for repair is exempt from taxes, but there might be processing fees in practice.

 

[Phlyra]

“B.2. Transport services

During the transition period, the United Kingdom takes part in the Single Market, including the Single Market for transport services. Therefore, currently, railway services, air transport services, and road haulage operations can be carried out throughout the European Union with one single licence, issued by one Member State. This also benefits EU operators in the United Kingdom during the transition period.

As of 1 January 2021, UK companies will no longer be able to perform transport services within the Union as part of the Single Market. The possibilities and conditions for EU and UK transport operators to perform services between the European Union and the United Kingdom will largely depend on the negotiations on the future EU-UK relationship in the area of transport.

However, in any case, as of 1 January 2021, licences issued to railway undertakings by the United Kingdom will no longer be valid in the European Union, and certificates or licences issued in the United Kingdom to train drivers will no longer be valid for the operation of locomotives and trains on the EU’s railway system.

Railway undertakings from the European Union or the United Kingdom that provide cross-border services between the United Kingdom and the European Union will have to comply with the legal requirements applicable both in the European Union and the United Kingdom. This relates to the license and safety certificate for the railway undertaking, the rolling stock authorisations and personnel (train drivers) licenses. Stakeholders concerned therefore have to ensure that they have valid licences in the European Union for the sections of the cross-border services located in the territory of the European Union, and valid licences in the United Kingdom for the sections of the cross-border services located in the territory of the United Kingdom.

In any case, as of 1 January 2021, air carriers holding operating licences granted by the UK licensing authority for the commercial carrying by air of passengers, mail and/or cargo, will no longer be able to provide air transport services within the European Union.

EU air carriers and holders of aviation safety certificates will need to ensure, and uphold compliance with Union requirements, including airlines’ requirements on principal place of business and EU majority ownership and control, as well as the Union aviation safety acquis.

Finally, in any case, as of 1 January 2021, road transport operators that are established in the United Kingdom will no longer hold a Community licence. They will therefore no longer benefit from the automatic access rights to the Single Market that such a licence entails, and namely the right of EU operators to conduct journeys and carry goods across the Union.

The access rights that EU operators and UK operators will have to each other’s respective markets will depend on the outcome of the negotiations between the EU and the United Kingdom. In the absence of an agreement, the limited quotas already available under the mechanism of the European Conference of Ministers of Transport (ECMT) will be available for EU operators to conduct journeys to the United Kingdom, and for UK operators to conduct journeys to the EU.”

EUR-Lex - 52020DC0324 - EN - EUR-Lex

eur-lex.europa.eu

 

[levi]

The last time I imported anything from the US which was above the free tax band, it cost me twice as much as the original import fee in covering the VAT that hadn't been added as an international sale, the import tarriff and the post offices own fee for storage and mailing me about it.

The Pyra should have full German VAT applied. The vouchers might have been sold without VAT, but the things you use them to buy like a Pyra is fully VATted.

 

[HelenF]

This page is talking about "Customs Duty" and says it's due on "most goods". The more I look, the more confused I get.

 

[Phlyra]

After searching around a bit, I'm not sure whether or not tariffs are the same thing as import duty, or whether that's the same as "third country duty" which appears to be normally zero for laptops and cell phones. I once got charged a second import tax along with VAT on a DVD course shipped from the US, which I'm now wondering if it was a mistake (but too late to do anything about it now if it was).

And if I was thinking of asking ED for any Pandora repairs, I should have done that ages ago. Looks like in principle sending in an item temporarily for repair is exempt from taxes, but there might be processing fees in practice.

“Separation issues: The Withdrawal Agreement also ensures an orderly winding-down of existing arrangements with regard to matters on-going at the time of withdrawal:

·it enables goods placed on the market before the end of the transition period to continue to be further made available on the EU or UK market until they reach their end-user, with no need for re-certification, re-labelling or product modifications;

·it provides for processes for managing and terminating ongoing intra-Union movements of goods, ongoing customs procedures as well as VAT and excise duty matters;”

EUR-Lex - 52020DC0324 - EN - EUR-Lex

eur-lex.europa.eu

Post automatically merged: Dec 19, 2020

Consequences of Brexit

Consequences for public administrations, businesses and citizens of the EU

ec.europa.eu

https://ec.europa.eu/info/sites/info/files/brexit_files/info_site/na0220590enn_002.pdf

 

[Phlyra]

“Tariffs for cross-border parcel delivery and regulatory oversight
EU law provides for increased transparency of tariffs for cross-border parcel delivery.30 While, as of the end of the transition period, the obligations stemming from Regulation 2018/644 no longer apply with regard to tariffs for parcel delivery to and from the United Kingdom, the transparency obligation according to Article 12 of Directive 97/67EC31 continues to apply to Union universal service providers.”

“ Titles II and III of Part Three of the Withdrawal Agreement provide for rules in relation to the customs status, VAT, and excise for goods the movement of which started before the end of the transition period but ends thereafter (‘sailing goods’).”

https://ec.europa.eu/info/sites/info/files/notice_to_stakeholders_brexit_online_sales_0.pdf

https://ec.europa.eu/info/sites/info/files/brexit_files/vat-goods_en.pdf

United Kingdom

The EU-UK Trade and Cooperation Agreement, Withdrawal Agreement, Online shopping from the UK

ec.europa.eu

 

[Gren]

Looking at the latest from the Brexit trade negotiations, and the obstinance from BoJo and "cronies", I fear that No Deal is the most likely outcome.

Unfortunately, given ED's lack of updates in the news thread, I am also worried that Pyra production has hit a snag (it wouldn't be the first time), and will not be shipping until the New Year.

And therein lies my dliemma; although I still want a Pyra, it is not as relevant to my personal circumstances as it was when I pre-pre-ordered. However, I'd still like to support ED, and be a part of this great community, perhaps contributing in some small way.

BUT - I will not accept paying tens or possibly even hundreds of Euros in additional import tariffs on an already very expensive device. And the only way that I feel that I can guarantee this would be to cancel the pre-pre-order and request a full refund.
I'd like to leave this decision until after the confirmation of the No Deal, and preferably also after an update from ED explaining what the state of play is......but time is ticking away, and 2021 is only 12 days away

After waiting patiently for over 4 years (more? I have lost track!!!) , this is not the way I expected things to go. But hey ho.

@EvilDragon - over to you.....

 

[levi]

I'd expect if we do go full no deal, everyone will be up in arms that they can't buy their french plonk as cheaply, or that cars have become more expensive and BAE has gone bust, so I'd expect a deal of some sort to be signed with the EU sooner or later, although how focussed that will be and whether it will reasonably include handheld computers is hard to predict. I don't see any need to cancel a prepreorder yet, and lose your exclusive low serial number, just it might make sense to delay in upgrading it to a full retail unit, although if you want to support ED you can at least buy vouchers before the end of the year and perhaps beyond.

 

[Binky]

I will not accept paying tens or possibly even hundreds of Euros in additional import tariffs on an already very expensive device. And the only way that I feel that I can guarantee this would be to cancel the pre-pre-order and request a full refund.
I'd like to leave this decision until after the confirmation of the No Deal, and preferably also after an update from ED explaining what the state of play is

A sad but understandable stance!

I shan't be best pleased if we end up paying heavy duties, but then pretty much all consumer electronic products will be in the same situation.

The Pyra's whole-life cost:benefit ratio will be pretty good either way, but it is substantial investment, and it's been a financially 'interesting' year for a lot of people.

 

[Lazrhog]

I'd expect if we do go full no deal, everyone will be up in arms that they can't buy their french plonk as cheaply, or that cars have become more expensive and BAE has gone bust, so I'd expect a deal of some sort to be signed with the EU sooner or later, although how focussed that will be and whether it will reasonably include handheld computers is hard to predict. I don't see any need to cancel a prepreorder yet, and lose your exclusive low serial number, just it might make sense to delay in upgrading it to a full retail unit, although if you want to support ED you can at least buy vouchers before the end of the year and perhaps beyond.

Why would BAE go bust ?

 

[levi]

Aren't they heavily involved in Airbus? That's the only thing I was going on to be honest.

 

[matzesu]

I just imagine what would happen if the Pandora produktion at Craigix where succesfull, and ditnt end up moved over to EvilDragon in Germany, so maybe the Pyra weare now be made in UK,
So it would be just local shipping on the Island of the false side drivers but whe would have issue get it to the EU..
The UK peaple have my whole participation (i had to ask siri how the word was, seems like my Englisch needs lot more Training) ..

 

[Lazrhog]

Aren't they heavily involved in Airbus? That's the only thing I was going on to be honest.

No, not in the slightest. They divested their interest in Airbus years ago

 

[HelenF]

@EvilDragon if you're about to start shipping, any chance you could let UK-ers skip the queue?

 

[Phlyra]

@EvilDragon if you're about to start shipping, any chance you could let UK-ers skip the queue?

What, and completely defeat the point of Brexshit?

 

[levi]

Now we have additional complications with no UK vehicles allowed into France, and no flights either for the time being, thanks to the new coronavirus strain affecting southern england and wales. I don't know how that affects european mail, but I'd expect it to complicate things.

 

[Phlyra]

I just imagine what would happen if the Pandora produktion at Craigix where succesfull, and ditnt end up moved over to EvilDragon in Germany, so maybe the Pyra weare now be made in UK,
So it would be just local shipping on the Island of the false side drivers but whe would have issue get it to the EU..
The UK peaple have my whole participation (i had to ask siri how the word was, seems like my Englisch needs lot more Training) ..

From Chronopost today:
“

BREXIT : import depuis la Grande-Bretagne, que devez vous savoir ?​

A compter du 1er janvier 2021, les colis en provenance de Grande-Bretagne feront l'objet d'une déclaration import en France entraînant des frais (droits de douanes et taxes). Le montant de ces frais est calculé en fonction de la nature de la marchandise ainsi que sa valeur. Si vous êtes destinataire d'un colis en provenance de Grande-Bretagne, vous recevrez de Chronopost une notification par email et SMS, vous donnant accès à un lien qui vous redirigera vers une page de paiement sécurisé, ou vous pourrez régler le montant des frais par carte bancaire. Vous avez la possibilité de refuser le paiement de ces frais, dans ce cas le colis sera retourné à l’expéditeur. Vous avez 9 jours à compter de la libération douanes du colis pour payer le montant des droits de douanes et taxes. Passé ce délai, le colis sera retourné à l’expéditeur.

”

Basically, from the 1st of January 2021, parcels coming from GB and arriving in France will be subject to customs duty and taxes according to the nature of the goods and their value...

 

[Inqui]

And seems that not much will enter the island in the next days
Strange times...