Pyra and Brexit

[TrashyMG]

this is a "General Discussions" sub forum relating to Pyra . speculating on how Brexit may affect delivery and price of the Pyra seems to be a general discusion.

I agree with this statement, I would have moved the topic myself otherwise.

 

[Binky]

this is a "General Discussions" sub forum relating to Pyra . speculating on how Brexit may affect delivery and price of the Pyra seems to be a general discusion.

Its the moderators job to police the validity of threads and posts not ANYONE else except ED that is.....

I agree that Pyra --> General is a perfectly reasonable place for this thread, provided we don't get side-tracked onto broader political issues.

Of course, members are entirely welcome to report content they think is inappropriate!

 

[Confuzzled]

Just a quick head-up: There's no issue with the Brexit and the Pyra or other shipments from my shop.
For me, it's just like any other country outside the EU. Your Pyra price will be without VAT and you have to pay import VAT to customs instead (usually handled by the courier).
That's it

Sorry ED, I believe you are wrong. Please check this before it causes you a lot of potentially expensive trouble.
The Finance Info: UK VAT changes for foreign mail-order sellers create ‘chaos’

Link to UK tax authorities (HMRC)

Changes to VAT treatment of overseas goods sold to customers from 1 January 2021

www.gov.uk

As ever HMRC is making life difficult for everyone else to make life easier for themselves. Externalising costs.

The main point is, goods valued at up to and including £135 are treated as described in the link above.

Businesses making sales of goods not exceeding £135 in value (per consignment) to customers in the UK, where the goods are outside the UK at the point of sale, will become liable to register and account for VAT on those sales.

Obviously, the Pyra is valued at more than £135, so the procedure of the buyer (importer) paying VAT on import is (as far as I can tell, I'm not an expert) correct. UK customers will have to do more paperwork and experience more delays than before Brexit. However, if you are sending individual consignments valued at £135 or less to UK customers, it looks like you will have to be registered for VAT with HMRC. Some non-UK suppliers do not wish to do this, and as a result, refuse to sell items valued at £135 or less to UK customers - as detailed in the first link above.

 

[pyrat]

Curious. So imagine that an UK customer buys from abroad two items at the same time, one with a £100 price, and another with a £50 price.
Since the online order is above £135, the customer doesn't pay VAT at purchase time and waits to pay it at the border.
Then something happens, and the commerce can't deliver one of them, or can't deliver them at the same time because it runs out of stock and resupply time is long.
Can the commerce ship only one of the items or must retain the first item until second item availability? Must the commerce then register and charge VAT to the customer in a separate payment before shipping ?
What happens then when the customer receives only one of the items ? Must the customer pay import VAT at border because it hasn't been paid yet, or not because it's under £135 ?

 

[levi]

UK law doesn't apply to ED, since neither he or his shop are in the UK. It is interesting to see how this pans out though, if the UK are expecting ED to have charged VAT/sales tax on the item, and he's been advised to let the courier collect VAT.

 

[Confuzzled]

I think this gives a slightly clearer overview:

UK post-Brexit VAT on e-commerce B2C imports - Avalara

The UK’s HRMC has released details of the changes to VAT on goods sold from overseas to UK consumers after the end of the Brexit transition period, 31 December 2020. The 1 January 2021 UK B2C ecommerce reforms will include making online marketplaces OMP the deemed supplier is some cases.

www.avalara.com

Note that the seemingly odd UK changes (and I'm not even looking at the Northern Ireland differences) foreshadow the general EU changes coming in in July

Distance selling after Brexit

Distance selling is set to change after Brexit, the EC has warned in a notice to stakeholders. We cover the details.

www.grantthornton.co.uk

Modernising VAT for cross-border e-commerce

Latest news, Mini One Stop Shop (MOSS), The VAT e-commerce package

ec.europa.eu

BREXIT: Distance selling after Brexit

The European Co.....

www.globalvatcompliance.com

In addition, among other things, I think the abolition of the Low Value Consignment Relief will alter the dynamics of buying cheap stuff from China, which is probably the intent.

 

[Confuzzled]

Curious. So imagine that an UK customer buys from abroad two items at the same time, one with a £100 price, and another with a £50 price.
Since the online order is above £135, the customer doesn't pay VAT at purchase time and waits to pay it at the border.
Then something happens, and the commerce can't deliver one of them, or can't deliver them at the same time because it runs out of stock and resupply time is long.
Can the commerce ship only one of the items or must retain the first item until second item availability? Must the commerce then register and charge VAT to the customer in a separate payment before shipping ?
What happens then when the customer receives only one of the items ? Must the customer pay import VAT at border because it hasn't been paid yet, or not because it's under £135 ?

No idea. Be so good as to let the forum know when you find out.

 

[pyrat]

No idea. Be so good as to let the forum know when you find out.

I will if I do, But I'm unlikely to do. I thank you for the information provided, but it's all a little over my head.

 

[pyrat]

UK law doesn't apply to ED, since neither he or his shop are in the UK.

No idea. The UK and the EU had some kind of deal at the last minute. That has changed the UK law but might also change EU law. I don't know.
In any case the UK law applies to UK customs, and I suppose that all parcels shipping to the UK from abroad go through UK customs.
Foreigners can't be sued for ignoring UK law, but UK customs can't be sued for applying UK law.

It is interesting to see how this pans out though, if the UK are expecting ED to have charged VAT/sales tax on the item, and he's been advised to let the courier collect VAT.

I don't know but I fear that then UK customs retains the package ? Then customers are unhappy and foreign sellers get complaints and lose future sales. That's why some of them simply refuse to ship to UK.
Likewise the curier doesn't want to lose business so it is to be expected that he advises something to any shipper in any country that is, as best the curier can, useful to prevent problems at customs.

 

[Letalis Sonus]

I don't know but I fear that then UK customs retains the package ?

If a package does not conform to local law it is illegal and therefore they may just destroy it - and then they'll likely even charge you for that. Something similar happened to a friend of mine, he acquired an engineering sample of an unreleased AMD CPU, but the board it was mounted on had a WiFi chip that was too powerful for EU regulations - they actually managed to find this detail and just destroyed everything. I wouldn't be surprised if UK customs are handling things in the same way.

 

[levi]

Radio dissregulation is quite a significant error in the eyes of UK law, so that doesn't surprise me. But I assume the wifi chip in the pyra is well regulated so that won't happen for us.

 

[HelenF]

if the value is lower, the seller has to register in the UK for a VAT ID and needs to have a UK Tax counsellor.
Then UK VAT is added by the seller... this is pretty idiotic.
It's also the reason my shop has been setup to that orders below £135 are not possible anymore.

So, UK people, make sure you buy everything else you might want in the same order as your Pyra!

 

[matzesu]

i can recomand the Pyra Mugg, might be a bit too small for a big Portions of Coffee, but for my (double expresso and a lot of milk) mourning drink, its perfekt..
Unfortunaly my Mugg was crashed last week, but i allready ordered 3 new one from Dragonbox.de ^^