Put Us Out Of Our Misery!

[mali]

Man, it took me like half an hour to finish my order. I ordered right after it came online, too.

What order number did you have? Mine was 2304.
edit:
Explanation: That number is a general gp2x.de shop number. Preorders started with 2299 and there are also non-Pandora orders in the mix.

 

[Poem58]

Wow, Mali. I thought you were a first batcher too. That's sad to think you had the order and now you won't get one for awhile. Didn't you consider reordering from the first batch? Seems like there's nearly always a chance at getting one. You were 2304 and I just found out that I'm 1550-1650 and I didn't order til around March-April 09. I wonder if many of those who dropped out will be in for the second batch or if they left forever?
And Seriously, Gruso not a first batcher!? That surprises me more than anything I have heard on this board to date. He may not be a dev, but it just seems like a crime against nature if he isn't going to have a first batch unit.
Not to sound rotten or anything, but I was ecstatic to hear I moved up that far in the queue. Kinda like a bonus for waiting or something. Yet, it makes me feel guilty for moving up cause that means that many more people dropped out at some point. I hope they come back, if this ship can get on course, there are some fun times ahead. There are so many things that are possible to want to do on day one, not knowing just what emu's and progs will be ready, I have yet to figure out what I will do first. I am very excited to find out though! I finally got a Sandisk Ultra 16GB, one of those 15MB/s class 4 cards for $30, now I just hope to get at least one more 16GB card somehow and then I should be set. If not I will put my 2GB MicroSD to work in slot 2. But I am hoping to have all the games and movies and music I have packed in for any situation I could ever encounter. good times, good times!!

 

[Monk]

I hope that Craig does explain this, however I'm pretty sure he is not _actively_ trying to stretch information... it's just that he says things very optimistically to keep everybody on board, however if the Pandora doesn't ship soon I'm afraid more people will be bailing :\ I won't bail though.

I'm not sure I follow this properly. If he says things optimistically specifically to keep everyone on board, then isn't he doing it actively?

I hope Craig doesn't try to BS... err, explain his behaviour.

So where am I at? A device I feel I need led by a guy I can't stand. Well I still use Windows every day, my phone is a cheap Chinese dual-SIM knock off made in conditions I wouldn't approve of. And I would have bough a new Amiga up until a few years ago, despite the face behind the company. My morals are clearly not strong enough to resist myself of these corporations, so why should I deprive myself of a Pandora? Craig just joins the long list of people I hesitantly choose to give my money to, joining the hall of fame alongside Bill Gates, Bill McEwen and Steve Jobbs (well, if he ever makes any products that I'm actually interested in!)

To do otherwise would hurt (disadvantage) you a lot more than it would Bill, or Craig, or Steve etc.

Which is the rub

Remember Hanlon's Razor: "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."

Thankoyu. I spent ages putting my brain through the grinder trying to find that term

I wonder who here has put up their whole house as collateral just so they can sell an underdog games machine to a bunch of teenagers/aging geeks? Craig, thats who.

Ah - I don't think he's doing it just as a favour to us. I think he rather wants to earn an awful lot of money out of us, and those who will hopefully follow us. It's not our interest, but self interest that got Craig into this.

I don't see that as changing very much, but assigning Craig premature angelhood just seems SO very wrong

To much negativity for one day, I'm off to recover from this thread!

 

[mali]

I wonder if many of those who dropped out will be in for the second batch or if they left forever?

I'm pretty sure, that the real enthusiasts will all come back

 

[kingoddball]

Craig said the 2nd batch will cost MORE than the current Pandora prices.. Any idea how much more? I want one for my wife, but I don't think I want to pay too much more. I'd get another first batch, but she may not like it. Which is why I want to get mine first.

 

[mali]

I don't know about Craig's prices, but ED raised the price a bit higher than Craid did for the first batch and it will most likely stay at 299€.

 

[DaveC]

Ah - I don't think he's doing it just as a favour to us. I think he rather wants to earn an awful lot of money out of us, and those who will hopefully follow us. It's not our interest, but self interest that got Craig into this.

I don't see that as changing very much, but assigning Craig premature angelhood just seems SO very wrong

To much negativity for one day, I'm off to recover from this thread!

I don't think anyone in the OP team is getting rich from this including me. I think the likely scenario is that we just wanted to make the perfect handheld and in the process get a little money from it to make all of the hard work worth it. No one is going to be a millionaire from this. It would be nice but no one of us is expecting that.

 

[RajTakhar]

Wow, Mali. I thought you were a first batcher too. That's sad to think you had the order and now you won't get one for awhile. Didn't you consider reordering from the first batch? Seems like there's nearly always a chance at getting one. You were 2304 and I just found out that I'm 1550-1650 and I didn't order til around March-April 09. I wonder if many of those who dropped out will be in for the second batch or if they left forever?
And Seriously, Gruso not a first batcher!? That surprises me more than anything I have heard on this board to date. He may not be a dev, but it just seems like a crime against nature if he isn't going to have a first batch unit.

The Pre-order numbering is crazy

I dont get how newer orders are placed so high up the queue

I ordered within first week oct 08 I'm still sitting at 2200-2300

Which kind of suggests you got bumped up the queue based on someone cancelling and you taking the slots for earlier cancelled orders, the other way round where earlier orders got bumped up, with you joining later half of queue

I thought craig stated they were going to review the pre-order list so it was fair

I guess it's not really worth the moan, as the poor back-office girls have enough stuff to deal with, and must have been bogged down with all original orders, cancellations and additional orders

Just wished it would be more fairer to those of who ordered dead early.

Heck, in a few more weeks before Easter as it is definately getting on a bit now

 

[gruso]

But that's just not true. Note how I specifically mentioned that he got his authorship taken away for something he said in THE COMMENTS, not the actual blog posts. By gruso who didn't start or own the blog at the time, so they were equals, in addition to that. What if Poisoned had "fired" gruso first?

So you're still hanging on to this. Let me explain it in full, once only. The only reason I was able to "fire" PoisonedV was because I was a blog admin already. Mazza had drastically reduced his activity on the blog. The comment moderation queue was piling up, spammers were arriving, other maintenance was required. So I sent him an email and offered to help clean it up. Mazza made me an admin straight away. Why? Not because I was special or respected. I was just another new-ish face on the forums. He made me admin because I was the one who offered to help.

Onto the PoisonedV thing. The fact that it happened due to his posts in the comments - you are spot on - completely debunks the theory that I did it because he was a dissenting voice. Think about that. Not one of his blog posts was a problem. I even liked his cutting persona on the forums. The problem was that he couldn't see the difference between posting on the forums and posting on the blog. He would post an article, then troll the people commenting on it. I asked him a couple of times to tone it down. I deleted some of his nasty/insulting comments. When it continued, I took him off the blog.

You can crap on all day about bias and hypocrisy, but it came down to this: He was an arse. Funny on the forums, not funny on what is supposed to be a news source for a community full of anxious people. Imagine if EvilDragon responded to his Youtube comments with sarcastic crap like LOL 4CHAN 4 LIFEE RITE UR SO FUNNY LOLOROFL. There are a lot more people reading the blog than there are posting on the forums, and they have spent the last year looking to the blog authors for information and often, reassurance. Sadly PoisonedV took every opportunity to typecast and ridicule whoever happened to be in the firing line. There isn't a civilised blog in the world that would keep someone like that on.

I'm not above criticism. I know over the last 12 months I've taken the fanboy line too many times, jumping to the defence of the project rather than accept a few realities. I've tried to recognise that and stop myself from doing it. As for the "atmosphere" on the blog goes, I'm sorry if some people don't like it. I'm not perfect, the other bloggers aren't perfect, we're just people from the community trying to help out. Allegations of censorship are beyond ridiculous.

you think that's crazy? I'm pretty sure Gruso is not in first batch either but he might get a free one anyways...

What on earth made you think this? I ordered on day one. I'm not getting anything for free.

 

[sold]

"Craig lied to me Now my bottom hurts because I want my obscure independently developed open source hand-held NOW!!! But since I cant have my way, I'm gonna cry like a little girl who dropped her lolly in some dirt and make it my personal mission to expose that dastardly Craig as the shyster he was,is and always will be! How dare he make fun of a fellow board members sexual orientation! I firmly believe people should be allowed to put whatever they want in their butts! Firmly! OH! not to mention, how dare he and a small group of enthusiasts take on such a massive undertaking to fill a niche in the otherwise beige and boring technology market in anything less than the time frame that I deem fitting! And I suppose I better mention that he lied to all of you too! Lets not forget that! After all, we dont want this to be all about me now! Join me in my pointless and repetitious ranting! And you wouldn't believe what else! Those dishonest bastards refunded me my money upon request! Can you believe it? How dare they do those... things... that... I disagree with! Damn their hides! And they haven't banned me from the forum they use as a means of communication with their customers yet! They are actually allowing me to shit can their efforts publicly on their own boards! The fools! Oh, and I don't like paying for accessories that will allow me to do extra cool stuff, cause they should be free because the T.V. out cable faerie brings the T.V. out cables to all of the peoples for free, and they are made out of magic and love and don't cost any money to make at all! I like exclamation points! I sound like the kind of guy who would not fuck my girlfriend cause she cooked my fucking steak wrong, and if I've told that bitch once I've told her a thousand times, I like my fucking steak MEDIUM goddamit! Sure, I really like fucking my girlfriend, but dammit, I've made up my mind and in the end its the principal that counts! Wait a minute... Shit!"

YOU! THAT'S WHAT YOU SOUND LIKE KYOSYS!

j/k (sorta) and yeah I know you don't use exclamation points excessively and what-not. And I am assuming you are a dude.

As a consumer, you make the decision if you want to buy or... not buy. At least you had no issues getting your cash back. In the end, when the Pandora comes out, unless a similar system becomes available, it is one of a kind. I think it is silly to deprive yourself of something you wanted because of things that are out of the developers hands that you have taken as an affront to preorderers.

Having witnessed first hand the various shitty ways Chinese toolmakers and injection molding companies fuck shit up on a regular basis, I am not surprised that there have been an ass-load of delays since late last year. Prior to that, I'm sure that the OP team would've liked to have the project completed much earlier because don't forget, they would have had to borrow some cash. The longer they wait for the completion of the project, the more it costs them in interest. And who likes losing their house and begging for change?

There have been the extra delays and costs of several other fuck ups along the way. And maybe, just maybe they were misinformed and promised things that were unreasonable and they found out later, the hard way. But because they tried to maintain an open line of communication with all of us, they (Craig) ended up with mud on their faces. And it is just like people to shoot the messenger.

I'm sure that the OP dudes have learned a lot and they are going to deliver an awesome product. And if they are successful, their next undertaking, if any, will be executed with the knowledge and wisdom gained by jumping in deep waters and learning to swim to safety before the ravenous piranha eat all of the fleshy, hurty parts that hurt.

Give them a break guy.

EDIT: God I am bored.

 

[torpor]

I didn't say "give Craig a break", I said "any criticism of Craig at this point is not going to change a thing, because where we are at right now is simple: stuff needs to get *done*, not talked about, and we're now, after a lot of blood, sweat and tears, on the final steps" .. sure, its a for-profit project, but so? You think we're going to get Pandora's any other way than through the motivations of profit - (and fun) - that are involved in any commercial project?

Maybe you live in a Socialist Utopia where the government issues candy and games consoles and blowjobs to its citizens for free, but unless there is *some* profit motive in the real world, NOTHING GETS DONE. Grow up, already.

BTW, Craig & company won't be making any profit at all until Batch 2 - maybe even not until Batch 3, given the huge investment required so far to get where we are today (yes, its over a million dollars worth of investment, I have heard from reliable sources). So far, yes, there is more altruism in this project than anything else, and you can't pay a mortgage with altruism. If you don't know what a mortgage is, go look it up, kids.

Besides that, I don't really think Craig can screw up the last few steps: getting the machines, boxing them up, and shipping them off. He's already demonstrated prowess at such activities, or else he wouldn't be in the position he's in in the first place. Okay, so we're not going to just blindly follow him into the next project he has to manage, sure .. but so? (Well I'll be eager to know about Pandora2 if it happens, anyway). Maybe you'll change your mind about just how cool Craig is once you've got the product in your hands that he's worked - and accepted a lot of risk for producing - so hard on over the last 3 years.

The point is this: lay off the negative psychological evaluations of the people who are responsible for this project, folks. Given the circumstances, they've done a great job - lesser folks would have packed up and gotten a day job already, and we'd have nothing to even talk about. Coffeeshop psychology is not going to get the Chinese to ship the cases any faster. Its not going to get the boxes shipped from Texas faster. Be grateful that you even *know* this fact, even ..

I've worked in this field for years, I know the risks. I'm impressed that we've come so far, to be honest, without someone having a breakdown or removing their investment. So many cool gadgets get cancelled because people can't deal with the problems of case manufacturing or board assembly - but all of these things have been dealt with by the team, lead by Craig, as well as they can .. and here we are, simply waiting for the final assembly steps to occur. And who knows, maybe there really will only ever be 3000 Pandoras in the real world after all this goes down, maybe there won't be a Batch 2, and Craig won't be able to re-pay his mortgage after all. How will you feel about him then, eh?

 

[Kyo]

Man, it took me like half an hour to finish my order. I ordered right after it came online, too.

What order number did you have? Mine was 2304.
edit:
Explanation: That number is a general gp2x.de shop number. Preorders started with 2299 and there are also non-Pandora orders in the mix.

2308

 

[mali]

2308

Wow. I hope you'll come back one day. I still remember the infinite excitement when pressing the order confirmation button, and I also remember the bitter emptyness when sending ED the cancellation mail

 

[Pleng]

And who knows, maybe there really will only ever be 3000 Pandoras in the real world after all this goes down, maybe there won't be a Batch 2, and Craig won't be able to re-pay his mortgage after all. How will you feel about him then, eh?

I personally won't shed a tear, so long as I get my Pandora first. Looks like it's already going to be able to do pretty much anything I'd like to soon enough after release.

Craigs attitude stinks. Just because somebody is taking a risk to deliver a product doesn't mean they don't have to act like a reasonable human being. Craig doesn't. He has repeatedly displayed that he views his own cutomers (the customers being the other people who 'made this possible' - remember they needed our preorders to be able to pull this project off) with contempt if they even remotely disagree with him. And should somebody like that loose their house, without owing me anything then so be it.

 

[Kyo]

"Craig lied to me Now my bottom hurts because I want my obscure independently developed open source hand-held NOW!!! But since I cant have my way, I'm gonna cry like a little girl who dropped her lolly in some dirt and make it my personal mission to expose that dastardly Craig as the shyster he was,is and always will be! How dare he make fun of a fellow board members sexual orientation! I firmly believe people should be allowed to put whatever they want in their butts! Firmly! OH! not to mention, how dare he and a small group of enthusiasts take on such a massive undertaking to fill a niche in the otherwise beige and boring technology market in anything less than the time frame that I deem fitting! And I suppose I better mention that he lied to all of you too! Lets not forget that! After all, we dont want this to be all about me now! Join me in my pointless and repetitious ranting! And you wouldn't believe what else! Those dishonest bastards refunded me my money upon request! Can you believe it? How dare they do those... things... that... I disagree with! Damn their hides! And they haven't banned me from the forum they use as a means of communication with their customers yet! They are actually allowing me to shit can their efforts publicly on their own boards! The fools! Oh, and I don't like paying for accessories that will allow me to do extra cool stuff, cause they should be free because the T.V. out cable faerie brings the T.V. out cables to all of the peoples for free, and they are made out of magic and love and don't cost any money to make at all! I like exclamation points! I sound like the kind of guy who would not fuck my girlfriend cause she cooked my fucking steak wrong, and if I've told that bitch once I've told her a thousand times, I like my fucking steak MEDIUM goddamit! Sure, I really like fucking my girlfriend, but dammit, I've made up my mind and in the end its the principal that counts! Wait a minute... Shit!"

YOU! THAT'S WHAT YOU SOUND LIKE KYOSYS!

j/k (sorta) and yeah I know you don't use exclamation points excessively and what-not. And I am assuming you are a dude.

As a consumer, you make the decision if you want to buy or... not buy. At least you had no issues getting your cash back. In the end, when the Pandora comes out, unless a similar system becomes available, it is one of a kind. I think it is silly to deprive yourself of something you wanted because of things that are out of the developers hands that you have taken as an affront to preorderers.

Having witnessed first hand the various shitty ways Chinese toolmakers and injection molding companies fuck shit up on a regular basis, I am not surprised that there have been an ass-load of delays since late last year. Prior to that, I'm sure that the OP team would've liked to have the project completed much earlier because don't forget, they would have had to borrow some cash. The longer they wait for the completion of the project, the more it costs them in interest. And who likes losing their house and begging for change?

There have been the extra delays and costs of several other fuck ups along the way. And maybe, just maybe they were misinformed and promised things that were unreasonable and they found out later, the hard way. But because they tried to maintain an open line of communication with all of us, they (Craig) ended up with mud on their faces. And it is just like people to shoot the messenger.

I'm sure that the OP dudes have learned a lot and they are going to deliver an awesome product. And if they are successful, their next undertaking, if any, will be executed with the knowledge and wisdom gained by jumping in deep waters and learning to swim to safety before the ravenous piranha eat all of the fleshy, hurty parts that hurt.

Give them a break guy.

EDIT: God I am bored.

Oh my god, use some paragraphs. I can barely stand reading the first wall of your post. Hey, I never mentioned anything about anyone's orientation, and you're the one dragging this to "nanana you're just dumb and butthurt", not me. I was asked to explain myself and so I did. What's your excuse? Were you asked to troll? Making a pointless strawman argument is not proving anything. Grow up.

You know why I'm pulling out of this? Because Sony (hi rootkits), Nintendo and all those other evil companies are not making false pretenses. Again, Craig wants it both ways. He wants to be that awesome cool dude who's totally listening to the customers while simultaneously being an ass to them.

What Pleng just said, basically.

If Craig loses his mortgage, that's really not my problem. This is just typical, you say he should be able to get away with this because he's just another company but at the same time we should feel sorry for him because he might lose his mortgage. Really not my problem.

@mali - I really didn't feel anything at this point. I was just happy when the money showed up on my bank account and put it in my savings.

 

[renegadechic]

And who knows, maybe there really will only ever be 3000 Pandoras in the real world after all this goes down, maybe there won't be a Batch 2, and Craig won't be able to re-pay his mortgage after all. How will you feel about him then, eh?

I personally won't shed a tear, so long as I get my Pandora first. Looks like it's already going to be able to do pretty much anything I'd like to soon enough after release.

Craigs attitude stinks. Just because somebody is taking a risk to deliver a product doesn't mean they don't have to act like a reasonable human being. Craig doesn't. He has repeatedly displayed that he views his own cutomers (the customers being the other people who 'made this possible' - remember they needed our preorders to be able to pull this project off) with contempt if they even remotely disagree with him. And should somebody like that loose their house, without owing me anything then so be it.

you are one of the most vile people ive ever had the displeasure of reading.

you're a complete hypocrite talking about stinking attitudes. get your refund and go already you selfish idiot

 

[Kyo]

...what. So Craig is allowed to be a selfish idiot, but if the customer (who's the one paying money for this btw) is one, then he's a hypocrite?

 

[fraseyboy]

And who knows, maybe there really will only ever be 3000 Pandoras in the real world after all this goes down, maybe there won't be a Batch 2, and Craig won't be able to re-pay his mortgage after all. How will you feel about him then, eh?

I personally won't shed a tear, so long as I get my Pandora first. Looks like it's already going to be able to do pretty much anything I'd like to soon enough after release.

Craigs attitude stinks. Just because somebody is taking a risk to deliver a product doesn't mean they don't have to act like a reasonable human being. Craig doesn't. He has repeatedly displayed that he views his own cutomers (the customers being the other people who 'made this possible' - remember they needed our preorders to be able to pull this project off) with contempt if they even remotely disagree with him. And should somebody like that loose their house, without owing me anything then so be it.

If I were Craig and had customers like you, I wouldn't pretend to like them just because they're helping to 'make this possible'. From what I've seen, Craig has only shown contempt when it is deserving. Craig is just another person remember, and he is not immune to idiots. And the fact that he doesn't try to disguise his feelings to make the company look better reflects the whole 'open' nature of the project. He considers himself to be on the same level as the customers.

 

[Pleng]

He considers himself to be on the same level as the customers.

Who told you that? His gay lover?

 

[mali]

So now the thread reached the troll phase :rolleyes:
What's next?