Beta Psx4Pandora Beta

[PokeParadox]

Um... cry more...? Rome wasn't built in a day and etc. etc.
You should have been here in the GP2X times... it was painful having an 8fps SNES emulator on a machine that should be able to handle SNES reasonably... but it gave you somethig to long for, everyh new version of the SNES emulators got better and better and faster and faster. Yes it's a process that takes time... deal with it?

I'm hardly crying, just saying there's a reason some people are pisssed off.

OK I get your point, yes you have a right to be disappointed... but at the same time you are getting pissed off because some open source devs haven't got the Playstation Emulator to a state that you are happy with... and this is the annoying thing. Cragix himself is not writing PSX4all it's Zodttd and Tinnus and co. Yes Playstation is running great on software rendering for certain games right now, yes there was some lovely screenshots posted years ago of GLES2 accelerated rendering.
Fair enough be disappointed, but to criticise in the way that you are doing is unfair to Tinnus and Zodttd who I'm pretty sure never made an offcial statement: "OpenPandora pre-orderers, we offcially declare you will have fullspeed PSX emulation on release day."

Some videos may have been demo'd and such and yeah it would have been awesome if timescales worked out for the enjoyment of everyone, but what you preordered was your handheld and that's it.

 

[Pickle]

EDIT: chris_c - I'm not a programmer or a developer, nor have I recieved the Pandora I paid for a long time ago - which makes it difficult to make it myself. It's the same reason I pay other people for things like food for example. I go into the supermarket and buy some milk, I don't expect them to give me a cow and say "what's stopping you getting the milk yourself" - er I'm not a farmer.

If only it was easy as milking a cow....hmmm
"come on bessie, give me some a little more milk per second!"
"billybob! give bessie some more straw so i can over-milk her! MPS here we come"
"woot! I have the new auto-squidge-milker! bessie will now produce more MPS since milk will travel faster from the upper udder.
"holy cow! this new home grown cow genetically modified by farmers over the the world can produce 4 times the MPS!

 

[God Ginrai]

"woot! I have the new auto-squidge-milker! bessie will now produce more MPS since milk will travel faster from the upper udder.

Pickle, there are times when you make me want to hug you.

-God Ginrai

 

[TitanUranus]

First of all, your rose analogy sucks because OP never said that the Pandora had or would ship with fullspeed PSX emulation. They said it was capable of fullspeed PSX emulation. To fit this into your rose analogy, that's like them saying "hey these rose seeds are capable of becoming beautiful roses" and then you buy them expecting roses, and then bitch because they are seeds, even though they already told you that.

Second, there are always games that run fullspeed on an emulator before all games do. I am sure that someone made a video of a fullspeed SNES game before Super Mario RPG was running fullspeed on the GP2X. There are games that run fullspeed on PSX4Pandora, so I don't see where you are getting this idea that the emulator is somehow horribly worse off.

-God Ginrai

The rose concept was not an analogy for the pandora - it was putting into a context understandable to everyone that there is something called a customer, and there are times when it is idiotic to imply the customer has no right ever to challenge the sales people without being criticised and held to account for disent. It meerly was to point out that in some cases it may be appropriate for a customer to complain when their expectations are not fulfilled - as in the instance of the roses/seeds maybe. The cow and milk was an analogy for the pandora. The supermarket says it will sell me milk, I'm not fussy how they go about getting the milk - I assume they pay the farmer to extract it from a cow. I read and linked to videos that purported to "prove" PSX emulation was at an advanced state - certainly more advanced than it clearly is now (I understand there was a loss of data and changes in the OS). In all cases the onus is on the seller to make sure you get the goods you paid for - even if they have to pay elsewhere to get it delivered. In the case of the supermarket that may mean paying another farmer when their original supplier fails to deliver the goods, in the case of open pandora the nature of their customer base has already meant they have gotten away with many practices which would be considered utterly comercially irresponsible, simply due to the good grace of their customers who have been stunningly patient and understanding. We all want the project to work and do what we can to help our end goals become attainable. But it's not surprising some people get frustrated and complain. I haven't actually said anything against anyone - I just pointed out that I understand why people are irritated and I sypathise. Just because people say they want things or even expect things, or sypathise with anothers position shouldn't make them elligable for a lable of "black hearted moaning evil pandora hating scummball crybaby" or whatever are the latest insults hurled at them.

On the second point it wasn't me who brought up a machine I am unfamiliar with and tried to make comparrisons - I don't have or care what happened with GP2X and SNES emulation. I simply made the point that we were originally shown videos linked to on the official pandora site that can not be replicated on the Pandora today - as far as I am aware and please correct me if I'm wrong, at no point did GP2X videos exist showing stuff that could not be replicated by the owner at home within a month of being demonstrated in a youtube video. What this has to do with PSX emulator on Pandora is anyones guess.

Now can I finally make it clear, I look forward to getting my pandora, I wish Open Pandora all the success in the world - and that is why I continue to visit these forums and look for the latest development news. The fact I have never spoken about the kind of stuff here is precicsely because I'm not interested in other people's knee jerk reactions. If you think I'm a dick that's fine, you're entitled to your opinion. If you want to ask me further about how I feel or think about things, or just want to slag me off for acknowledging that I feel some sympathy for those frustrated by the current state of PSX emulation can you please PM me instead of buggering up this thread by engaging in a slanging match. Also I'd love know if I've ever mistakingly said anything detrimental to the people who are working hard on PSX emulation for the pandora, because I really do think you are doing a heroic job, and I sincerely hope you remain active in it's development. It's a shame some previous development was lost or rendered unusable by the current OS, and my opinion as you can probably guess is that you ought to recieve some kind of financial or hardware incentive to ciontinue your work. Unfortunately I'm not in a position to provide any, but please don't mistake others frustration as being a lack of appreciation. I sincerely look forward to testing your work and adding my suggestions at some time, hopefully in the near future.

 

[PokeParadox]

Public apology to TitanUranus, your point was empathy of the frustrations of the end users that are complaining... not your personal general bitching against the devs... which is how it came across.
*cough*
So um... Tinnus anything to report?

 

[God Ginrai]

On the second point it wasn't me who brought up a machine I am unfamiliar with and tried to make comparrisons - I don't have or care what happened with GP2X and SNES emulation. I simply made the point that we were originally shown videos linked to on the official pandora site that can not be replicated on the Pandora today - as far as I am aware and please correct me if I'm wrong, at no point did GP2X videos exist showing stuff that could not be replicated by the owner at home within a month of being demonstrated in a youtube video. What this has to do with PSX emulator on Pandora is anyones guess.

My point was that because of the complexity of different games, they don't all become full speed at the same time. PSX4Pandora can run some games full speed right now, with the appropriate overclock.

Also, on the note about things not being replicated, you've never seen a developer video for something and never ended up getting it? I have seen plenty. Technically, you could replicate that PSX emulation on the Pandora, if you got the right binaries and firmware and went through the trouble yourself. (you would have to get the right files from all the right devs, tho') Hell, we were shown the Pandora could do TV out in a video, and we still can't do that yet. And unlike PSX, that is something that the People who made the device are actually responsible for. I don't understand why you think that a developer that is making an emulator for free is responsible in the way you seem to be suggesting he should be.

Sure, people have the right to be disappointed if something doesn't work as well as they like it, but that doesn't mean it isn't rude to bitch to the dev about it. And by no means does it mean that the developer is obligated to produce results within any sort of time frame.

-God Ginrai

 

[notaz]

When I paid the money for my Pandora I did so partly because Open Pandora were selling it as a machine capable of fully emulating the PSX, going so far as to have video's early development boards running PSX games brilliantly.

brilliantly? You might want to rewatch those videos, those were mostly glitchy, had flickering, broken sound, etc.

 

[mvickers03]

Stuffs

I'm pretty sure FF7 and Wipeout is roughly the same speed now than it was in the Youtube video from over a year ago that Zodttd made! The emu didn't have sound before before either. I would have though what we have now is better than your expectation no?

Here is the link and I can assure you at least 2 out of the 3 games in the video run very well with the current build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xXtYmZa4yM I don't have Vagrant Story so can't say whether that works, if at all

 

[Jumpman]

Yeah, I never personally saw the team say PS1 would be full speed at launch! To say fullspeed would be possible, is left to the individual to decide when and where that may happen, if at all.

I have played many fullspeed PS1 games so far, and it is really nice. I have no doubt believing this emu will be fullspeed for the majority of games in time(at defualt-lighty raised clock speeds). I have said this before, but why would Zod spend the last 2 years perfecting this program when the Pandora may or may not have ever come out? That's insane! If I was him, I would have been programming for what was real and usable, which happens to be Apple products ect. Hell, I wouldn't even give a donation based on what was done 2 years ago. I wasn't even sure if Zod would continue this project at launch. I was confident that it could be done, and that someone would take it up in time.

Less than 25% of the first batch has actually shipped. Imagine how many more customers in that remaining 3000 can program, and help out greatly in this community. Many valid arguments have been made in this thread, but it all boils down to what each member assumed and expected to happen. I've only been around since the GP2X, and I saw many impossible things, become possible over a short period of time.

To see many fullspeed PS1 games with full sound within a months time, is outstanding, but that is from my point of view. It's OK to be upset that fullspeed isn't available on many more games, but that has more to do with personal expectations than anything else. High expectations are very rarely ever met. Low expectations are almost always met, or exceeded. My personal experiance in this community told me to not expect fullspeed anything at launch, unless it was first or second gen consoles. I knew the Pandora was more than capable of fullspeed SNES, but I was shock it ran so well out the gate. Once again, I had low expectations.

I saw those same PS1 videos and thought....WOW this is really nice for some early prelim software, and should be fullspeed over time. Some others saw those same videos and thought....WOW fullspeed PS1, and it isn't even out yet. I'm gonna be playing fullspeed PS1 on the first day, AWESOME!

Has anyone here ever heard the term "If it looks to good to be true, it probably is"? Please don't get upset that you have been "Jedi Mind Tricked" by propaganda video's. Everyone saw the same videos way back when, and many knew what that meant. Others decided it meant something completely differant. Why is that? Everyone is differant, and has their own opinions and view of the world. Very rarly is anything fully right or wrong, it just comes down to POV!

Chris

 

[TitanUranus]

Stuffs

I'm pretty sure FF7 and Wipeout is roughly the same speed now than it was in the Youtube video from over a year ago that Zodttd made! The emu didn't have sound before before either. I would have though what we have now is better than your expectation no?

Here is the link and I can assure you at least 2 out of the 3 games in the video run very well with the current build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xXtYmZa4yM I don't have Vagrant Story so can't say whether that works, if at all

Look everyone (I'm not trying to single you out here) - I really don't want to sound like a git but you keep coming up with arguments against what I've tried to say without upsetting people. The video that you link to has a quote from zodttd "This video is accurate and shows these games running on a devkit running at STOCK speed. This is truly an amazing handheld!" - STOCK is his emphasis not mine. Unlike now, where currently Wipeout is reported as "a little slower at 500mhz" and needs to be "cranked up", or the 800mhz to run FF7 with fluctuating speed or indeed the 850mhz required to run vagrant story with "minor slowdowns when getting in enemy range". Now bear in mind like guy lost all the work he did on that emulator and must be gutted, so my admiration for his willingness to resume working on PSX emulation despite his frustration is unbounded. Also bear in mind Pandoras can officially go up to 600MHZ and some people aren't comfortable stressing their newly purchased £300 hardware by overclocking 250mhz/350mhz above the reccomended speed in order to use the stuff that was shown running at STOCK speed.

That's from video you link to. I don't have a pandora yet aand can't compare them - I go by what it says on the compatibility page.

Let me reitterate for the ones among you who now are going to try and have a go at me and say I'm a shit and interperet all I've said as "the voice of unreasonable scumm" - I'm not saying this to criticise and I'd never have brought it up without you people constantly poking me with a stick to goad a reaction. You all seem to be attacking what I've said like it's unreasonable. Well I don't believe it is, I hate using old quotes just to justify myself simply because I once said I have some sympathy for those who feel annoyed - they might be right they might be wrong but I do understand their frustration. Certainly I don't blame any of the software developers in any way, shape or form and I've never demanded they do anything.

Thank you PokeParadox for a generous appology - I really appreciate it 'cause I'm fed up of people who just assume I'm a total arse. At least one person realises there's a big difference between coming on and making demands and accusations, and simply saying "that person has a point of view, and I'm sorry they are upset".

Now the rest of you please carry on showing me all the evidence that what I said is totally wrong and why I don't deserve to be able to post here unless what I have to say is complimentary of everyone involved at every stage of creating the Pandora's software and hardware. I've decided not to read this thread anymore as it's beginning to annoy me, so carry on and get some response free shots at me...

 

[mvickers03]

My reply wasn't an attack sorry if it was seen that way, I was just hoping you would see that the video I thought you were talking about, could infact be replicated today.

 

[God Ginrai]

Stuffs

I'm pretty sure FF7 and Wipeout is roughly the same speed now than it was in the Youtube video from over a year ago that Zodttd made! The emu didn't have sound before before either. I would have though what we have now is better than your expectation no?

Here is the link and I can assure you at least 2 out of the 3 games in the video run very well with the current build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xXtYmZa4yM I don't have Vagrant Story so can't say whether that works, if at all

Look everyone (I'm not trying to single you out here) - I really don't want to sound like a git but you keep coming up with arguments against what I've tried to say without upsetting people. The video that you link to has a quote from zodttd "This video is accurate and shows these games running on a devkit running at STOCK speed. This is truly an amazing handheld!" - STOCK is his emphasis not mine. Unlike now, where currently Wipeout is reported as "a little slower at 500mhz" and needs to be "cranked up", or the 800mhz to run FF7 with fluctuating speed or indeed the 850mhz required to run vagrant story with "minor slowdowns when getting in enemy range". Now bear in mind like guy lost all the work he did on that emulator and must be gutted, so my admiration for his willingness to resume working on PSX emulation despite his frustration is unbounded. Also bear in mind Pandoras can officially go up to 600MHZ and some people aren't comfortable stressing their newly purchased £300 hardware by overclocking 250mhz/350mhz above the reccomended speed in order to use the stuff that was shown running at STOCK speed.

That's from video you link to. I don't have a pandora yet aand can't compare them - I go by what it says on the compatibility page.

Let me reitterate for the ones among you who now are going to try and have a go at me and say I'm a shit and interperet all I've said as "the voice of unreasonable scumm" - I'm not saying this to criticise and I'd never have brought it up without you people constantly poking me with a stick to goad a reaction. You all seem to be attacking what I've said like it's unreasonable. Well I don't believe it is, I hate using old quotes just to justify myself simply because I once said I have some sympathy for those who feel annoyed - they might be right they might be wrong but I do understand their frustration. Certainly I don't blame any of the software developers in any way, shape or form and I've never demanded they do anything.

Thank you PokeParadox for a generous appology - I really appreciate it 'cause I'm fed up of people who just assume I'm a total arse. At least one person realises there's a big difference between coming on and making demands and accusations, and simply saying "that person has a point of view, and I'm sorry they are upset".

Now the rest of you please carry on showing me all the evidence that what I said is totally wrong and why I don't deserve to be able to post here unless what I have to say is complimentary of everyone involved at every stage of creating the Pandora's software and hardware. I've decided not to read this thread anymore as it's beginning to annoy me, so carry on and get some response free shots at me...

My problem is not that I think you are complaining, but that you seem to think that the people who are complaining have a grounds for complaint. Also, just to point out, STOCK speed on the devboards was 600 MHz, not 500.

-God Ginrai

 

[Pickle]

Look everyone (I'm not trying to single you out here) - I really don't want to sound like a git but you keep coming up with arguments against what I've tried to say without upsetting people. The video that you link to has a quote from zodttd "This video is accurate and shows these games running on a devkit running at STOCK speed. This is truly an amazing handheld!" - STOCK is his emphasis not mine. Unlike now, where currently Wipeout is reported as "a little slower at 500mhz" and needs to be "cranked up", or the 800mhz to run FF7 with fluctuating speed or indeed the 850mhz required to run vagrant story with "minor slowdowns when getting in enemy range".

huh :unsure: ... FF7 for me ran fine at 600 Mhz. Ive already practically finished FF9 at 600 (aside from a bug with some of the FMV's) Im playing PSX games WITH SOUND i never even dreamed of touching with the gp2x/wiz. From my tests 600-700 Mhz seems good.

Some of you are whining about compatibility which would be hard for any dev to account for until many users try many games, which is how this thread was being used. We are trying games that havnt been run with this emulator, cause we havnt experienced it on this kind of hardware.

To be honest a lot of the discussions on this is a bunch of wasted air. Zod/Tinnus will work on what ever they want to regardless of how much anyone barks (maybe even less).
Can we get back to the game reporting?

 

[God Ginrai]

Can we get back to the game reporting?

+1.

-God Ginrai

 

[likwidoxigen]

Can an admin please lock this thread? Might that be best at this point?
Zodd/Tinnus can always start a new one with none of this "poo" included.

 

[God Ginrai]

Can an admin please lock this thread? Might that be best at this point?
Zodd/Tinnus can always start a new one with none of this "poo" included.

There's no reason to lock this thread and make the devs start a new topic. As long as everyone gets back on topic, then it should be fine. Topics are prone to random offtopic tangents, and don't need to be locked every time one of these tangents takes place.

-God Ginrai

 

[DaveC]

But while waiting for that, why shouldn't he do other things during that time?

Because Apple is the DEVIL!!

Jokes aside no one said he shouldn't do something else. We just noticed that he was.

Whatever, no big deal.

 

[Tinnus]

All that arguing is starting to stink, maybe I'll start working harder just to have something to show here and you people talk about it instead

 

[Pickle]

All that arguing is starting to stink, maybe I'll start working harder just to have something to show here and you people talk about it instead

what took so long....

 

[Azure]

Look everyone (I'm not trying to single you out here) - I really don't want to sound like a git but you keep coming up with arguments against what I've tried to say without upsetting people. The video that you link to has a quote from zodttd "This video is accurate and shows these games running on a devkit running at STOCK speed. This is truly an amazing handheld!" - STOCK is his emphasis not mine. Unlike now, where currently Wipeout is reported as "a little slower at 500mhz" and needs to be "cranked up", or the 800mhz to run FF7 with fluctuating speed or indeed the 850mhz required to run vagrant story with "minor slowdowns when getting in enemy range".

huh :unsure: ... FF7 for me ran fine at 600 Mhz. Ive already practically finished FF9 at 600 (aside from a bug with some of the FMV's) Im playing PSX games WITH SOUND i never even dreamed of touching with the gp2x/wiz. From my tests 600-700 Mhz seems good.

I guess the point here is that people's definitions of "fine" vary. There are a lot of areas where FF7 runs full speed (and in some cases a lot more than full speed) with sound (with varying pitch), but there are also a fair number of places where it runs kind of slow (I recall Shinra Headquarters being one place, the world map, battles with lots of enemies, etc.). Definitely playable, but I'm guessing (?) not "fine" by TitanUranus's standards. I played at 775 mhz if it is relevant. It wasn't until I continued my FF7 save using PC emulation that I realized how often and to what degree FF7 wasn't running full speed on the Pandora.