Psx4gp2x Build 080207 Released - Frameskip & New Dynarec
- Thread starter zodttd
- Start date
Ripster
Member
Gruntfuggly said:
Hold the left shoulder button while pressing the sound button.
I didn't want to respond yesterday... but I have had the same issues as many... the only games I am interested in playing are the Hot Shots Golf series... and both the original and the second games are running much slower. However... the memory card feature is now being recognized... also the game seems to look much better.
I have been playing it with an interlace of 0 because you could not read the graphics on interlace 1 previously... but you can now, so I am assuming you have done some improvements here, the gameplay though has suffered. The FPS have definitely dropped about 50%... where I was getting about 13 FPS I am down to 6 and 7.
Is it possible that maybe you just released the wrong version. Either way thanks for your hard work.
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Lobo
Active Member
- Joined
- May 9, 2006
- Messages
- 527
I think everyone is noticing that this build is between a half and 2 thirds slower than the previous build, given the same setup (No interlace, Frameskip off), which is kind of a big let down since it was supposed to be even faster what with changes in the dynarec and frameskipping.
Now, games that were almost playable previously are completely unbearable.
Now, games that were almost playable previously are completely unbearable.
zodttd
Solving your premature emulation since the Tapwave
Just so you know, the new GPU once again changed the way "fps" is calculated. If FPS dropped by 50%, most likely frameskip is on, go by the VS readout. If frameskip is off, VS and FPS should be the same.
Is it truly going slower (it actually FEELS slower), or are the readouts just indicating it?
Is it truly going slower (it actually FEELS slower), or are the readouts just indicating it?
Ripster
Member
zodttd said:
Awww.. the master returns...
Nope it actually feels much slower... however as I said the graphics seem much better. Even with the skip frames turned off... the animation was much smoother on earlier versions, and I think playing a game like Hot Shots Golf gives you a better feeling since you are dealing with a power bar. I believe this gives you a much better visual cue of what is happening.
In previous version the bar moved smoother... and more consistant... this latest version... seems to be dropping frames and jerking about no matter what settings I am using. I could be wrong... and often am... as the Mrs would tell you... but these are just my current observations.
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Gruntfuggly
Mostly Harmless
Thanks... 8-D
fusion_power
Advanced Member
Hm, I can't compare this to previous versions so I have no clue if this build is slower or not. I only had an very old PSX Emu build which is quite useless.
But I wonder because of the speed. zodttd sayed, he had around 25 FPS in Wipeout. I only have around 4 FPS in another 3D game to. I think DBGT isn't more complex in graohics than wipeout but I can be wrong.
I've tried various combinations of clock and cycle but it just do nothing noticeble ingame. ^^" The game jumps only around 4-5 FPS even without Sound and no frame limit and Frameskip and so on.
But I wonder because of the speed. zodttd sayed, he had around 25 FPS in Wipeout. I only have around 4 FPS in another 3D game to. I think DBGT isn't more complex in graohics than wipeout but I can be wrong.
I've tried various combinations of clock and cycle but it just do nothing noticeble ingame. ^^" The game jumps only around 4-5 FPS even without Sound and no frame limit and Frameskip and so on.
Ripster
Member
Just another observation... the audio and video are out of sync now as well and this is with the frame skipping set to 0... The sound also seems to be breaking up alot. But.... on the plus side as I have mention previously... the memory card is working now...
Frame Skip is off.. the VS is about where it was but the FPS are definitely lower...
You had me doubting myself... but here is what I did... I took the 07.24.07 gpe file and dumped it in the current folder with my games and ran it from there. It is significantly better, Vsync is about the same... but the FPS are much better... and it is very noticeable in game play. Especially in the powerbar... it moves much smoother... does not jerk and stutter as much as in the new release. This is with the frame skip turned off in both. The audio and video sync is better too... in fact using this gpe with the current files works pretty good... the visuals are not as nice... but it seems to be playing faster than I remember.
You may want to double check that you released the correct files...
Frame Skip is off.. the VS is about where it was but the FPS are definitely lower...
You had me doubting myself... but here is what I did... I took the 07.24.07 gpe file and dumped it in the current folder with my games and ran it from there. It is significantly better, Vsync is about the same... but the FPS are much better... and it is very noticeable in game play. Especially in the powerbar... it moves much smoother... does not jerk and stutter as much as in the new release. This is with the frame skip turned off in both. The audio and video sync is better too... in fact using this gpe with the current files works pretty good... the visuals are not as nice... but it seems to be playing faster than I remember.
You may want to double check that you released the correct files...
Ripster
Member
Ok... I just went back and compared it to your new release...
The visuals on the new release are far superior to the 07.24.07 release... awesome job. The audio is a little funky now on the new release though... for sure the Vsync is slightly lower... in the 40's was in the 50's or more in the previous release, the FPS is also down by at least 50%... now in the range of 3-4 where it is up around 8-9 if not higher.
It is quite noticeable... when playing both in the powerbar... and the seeing the ball in flight.
But wow... have you ever improved on the visuals...
Previous versions are available at Zodttd's website... http://www.zodttd.com/
The visuals on the new release are far superior to the 07.24.07 release... awesome job. The audio is a little funky now on the new release though... for sure the Vsync is slightly lower... in the 40's was in the 50's or more in the previous release, the FPS is also down by at least 50%... now in the range of 3-4 where it is up around 8-9 if not higher.
It is quite noticeable... when playing both in the powerbar... and the seeing the ball in flight.
But wow... have you ever improved on the visuals...
fusion_power said:
Previous versions are available at Zodttd's website... http://www.zodttd.com/
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zodttd
Solving your premature emulation since the Tapwave
If the visuals are better, its because INTERLACING is OFF. Interlacing OFF slows down the game, but gives better visual quality.
Ripster
Member
zodttd said:
I always have the interlacing turned off.. in the previous version I could not read the text if it was even set to the default of 1... so something is different...
and just checking now... there is a very noticeable difference between the two versions... its much sharper on the new version. If you can tell me how to get a screenshot I would be happy to post or send it to you.
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Here is a concrete benchmark @250, RAM TIMING ON, SOUND OFF
Game : Legend of Mana NTSC/US
................
................
psx4gp2x version : 072407
................
................
PSX CLOCK 100
INTERLACE 0
fps : 17
................
PSX CLOCK 100
INTERLACE 1
fps : 22.5
................
................
................
................
................
................
................
................
psx4gp2x version : 080207
................
................
PSX CLOCK 100
PSX CYCLE 1.0
INTERLACE 0
FS 1/3
fps : 7-8
real : 5-6
................
PSX CLOCK 100
PSX CYCLE 1.5
INTERLACE 0
FS 1/3
fps : 10-11
real : 7
................
PSX CLOCK 100
PSX CYCLE 2.0
INTERLACE 0
FS 1/3
fps : 12
real : 8
................
PSX CLOCK 100
PSX CYCLE 2.0
INTERLACE 0
FS 1/2
fps : 13-14
real : 6-7
................
PSX CLOCK 30
PSX CYCLE 2.0
INTERLACE 0
FS 1/2
fps : 9-10
real : 4-5
................
PSX CLOCK 100
PSX CYCLE 2.0
INTERLACE 1
FS 1/2
fps : 14.5-15.5
real : 7-8
As I said on zodttd.com, the main character is really moving faster in 080207 compared to 072407.
The only difference is that less frame are displayed with the frameskip, and it doesn't mean the game is slower in any way.
Thanx zodttd for the good work !
Game : Legend of Mana NTSC/US
................
................
psx4gp2x version : 072407
................
................
PSX CLOCK 100
INTERLACE 0
fps : 17
................
PSX CLOCK 100
INTERLACE 1
fps : 22.5
................
................
................
................
................
................
................
................
psx4gp2x version : 080207
................
................
PSX CLOCK 100
PSX CYCLE 1.0
INTERLACE 0
FS 1/3
fps : 7-8
real : 5-6
................
PSX CLOCK 100
PSX CYCLE 1.5
INTERLACE 0
FS 1/3
fps : 10-11
real : 7
................
PSX CLOCK 100
PSX CYCLE 2.0
INTERLACE 0
FS 1/3
fps : 12
real : 8
................
PSX CLOCK 100
PSX CYCLE 2.0
INTERLACE 0
FS 1/2
fps : 13-14
real : 6-7
................
PSX CLOCK 30
PSX CYCLE 2.0
INTERLACE 0
FS 1/2
fps : 9-10
real : 4-5
................
PSX CLOCK 100
PSX CYCLE 2.0
INTERLACE 1
FS 1/2
fps : 14.5-15.5
real : 7-8
As I said on zodttd.com, the main character is really moving faster in 080207 compared to 072407.
The only difference is that less frame are displayed with the frameskip, and it doesn't mean the game is slower in any way.
Thanx zodttd for the good work !
zodttd
Solving your premature emulation since the Tapwave
Thanks for noticing UMXPRime. 
Next version will be better, all I can say I suppose.
Next version will be better, all I can say I suppose.
Well, I have to add I really like the 'low res' interlace in the previous version as I didn't test it before today.
In earlier releases there was some sort of progressive interlace version too.
Could it be possible to choose in future releases the way interlace displays ? (static, progressive, pixelated)
Just a matter of taste, but I like the pixelated one
In earlier releases there was some sort of progressive interlace version too.
Could it be possible to choose in future releases the way interlace displays ? (static, progressive, pixelated)
Just a matter of taste, but I like the pixelated one
zodttd
Solving your premature emulation since the Tapwave
I liked the pixelated one too, but I was getting mixed reviews on it.
I tried GTA on both the last version and this one, and it was nearly playable on the 071307 version at 266mhz. I was getting 8-12 fps then, and I can't get more than 4-5fps in-game now, no matter what settings I try, cycles, cpu speed, the lot.
It does however look much better, and if compatibility is increasing then this can only be a good thing! Well done for your efforts!
It does however look much better, and if compatibility is increasing then this can only be a good thing! Well done for your efforts!
Ripster
Member
Ok just so we are comparing apples to apples here are my results...
Cpu @ 250
Ram Tweaks On
Sound On
Game: Hot Shots Golf 2 - player is standing at the first tee ready to tee off.
******* Version 07.24.07 (note that I am using all the support files in the current release and running the 07.24.07 gpe file within that folder)
PSX Clock 100
PSX Cycle 1
Interlace 0
Frame Limit Off
VSync 39.9
FPS 8-9
----------------------------------------
PSX Clock 100
PSX Cycle 1
Interlace 1
Frame Limit Off
VSync 44.01
FPS 9-10
----------------------------------------
PSX Clock 100
PSX Cycle 2
Interlace 0
Frame Limit Off
VSync 71.43
FPS 5-6
----------------------------------------
PSX Clock 100
PSX Cycle 2
Interlace 1
Frame Limit Off
VSync 77.01
FPS 6-7
----------------------------------------
******* Version 08.02.07
PSX Clock 100
PSX Cycle 1.0
Interlace 0
Frame Limit Off
Skip Frame set to 0/1
VSync 28.21
FPS 3-4
Real FPS 3-4
----------------------------------------
PSX Clock 100
PSX Cycle 1.0
Interlace 1
Frame Limit Off
Skip Frame set to 0/1
VSync 31.66
FPS 3-5
Real FPS 3-5
----------------------------------------
PSX Clock 100
PSX Cycle 2.0
Interlace 0
Frame Limit Off
Skip Frame set to 0/1
VSync 58.81
FPS 2-5
Real FPS 2-5
----------------------------------------
PSX Clock 100
PSX Cycle 2.0
Interlace 1
Frame Limit Off
Skip Frame set to 0/1
VSync 64.58
FPS 2-5
Real FPS 2-5
---------------------------------------
You can take my results for what it is worth... but take my word for it the graphics are much cleaner in the new release... though the gameplay and sound has degraded.
Not that I don't appreciate the hard work you two have put in... I am just trying to provide you with feedback.
Cpu @ 250
Ram Tweaks On
Sound On
Game: Hot Shots Golf 2 - player is standing at the first tee ready to tee off.
******* Version 07.24.07 (note that I am using all the support files in the current release and running the 07.24.07 gpe file within that folder)
PSX Clock 100
PSX Cycle 1
Interlace 0
Frame Limit Off
VSync 39.9
FPS 8-9
----------------------------------------
PSX Clock 100
PSX Cycle 1
Interlace 1
Frame Limit Off
VSync 44.01
FPS 9-10
----------------------------------------
PSX Clock 100
PSX Cycle 2
Interlace 0
Frame Limit Off
VSync 71.43
FPS 5-6
----------------------------------------
PSX Clock 100
PSX Cycle 2
Interlace 1
Frame Limit Off
VSync 77.01
FPS 6-7
----------------------------------------
******* Version 08.02.07
PSX Clock 100
PSX Cycle 1.0
Interlace 0
Frame Limit Off
Skip Frame set to 0/1
VSync 28.21
FPS 3-4
Real FPS 3-4
----------------------------------------
PSX Clock 100
PSX Cycle 1.0
Interlace 1
Frame Limit Off
Skip Frame set to 0/1
VSync 31.66
FPS 3-5
Real FPS 3-5
----------------------------------------
PSX Clock 100
PSX Cycle 2.0
Interlace 0
Frame Limit Off
Skip Frame set to 0/1
VSync 58.81
FPS 2-5
Real FPS 2-5
----------------------------------------
PSX Clock 100
PSX Cycle 2.0
Interlace 1
Frame Limit Off
Skip Frame set to 0/1
VSync 64.58
FPS 2-5
Real FPS 2-5
---------------------------------------
You can take my results for what it is worth... but take my word for it the graphics are much cleaner in the new release... though the gameplay and sound has degraded.
Not that I don't appreciate the hard work you two have put in... I am just trying to provide you with feedback.
zodttd
Solving your premature emulation since the Tapwave
bomb_dog: Very important, did you have frameskip on or off? Turn it off and see if the framerate is then around 12. Also, did GTA feel slower than the previous release with and without frameskip on?
WITH FRAMESKIP ON, LOOK AT THE "VS" INDICATOR.
It gives a better feel for the actual fps when frameskip is on.
THIS IS BECAUSE FPS/REAL IS ONLY SHOWING THE *EFFECTIVE* RATE OF *DIFFERENT* FRAMES.
IF A GAME FEELS SLOWER WITH THE DEFAULT FRAMESKIP, TRY FRAMESKIP 0/1 (OFF) OR FRAMESKIP 1/2 (ON).
ALSO NOTICE HOW THE VS CAN BE 60 BUT FPS/REAL CAN BE ZERO! YOU OBVIOUSLY KNOW ITS DOING SOMETHING BUT THE FPS IS 0!
THIS IS BECAUSE ITS A STATIC FRAME BEING DRAWN TO THE SCREEN, AND SINCE IT'S NOT DIFFERENT THAN THE PREVIOUS FRAME, FPS REPORTS 0! Of course the framerate isn't 0, and most emulators would just report the VS (vsync) as the fps. But debugging is more important still than what each number is called and how large it looks next to fps. If it feels faster, its faster. If it doesnt, try different settings.
The GPU doesn't blit unnecessary frames. This adds to performance, by not drawing the same exact frame over and over. In the FPS report menu option: VS (Vsync) is how many times a frame is asked for. FPS is the number of different frames drawn per second by taking the REAL frames and multiplying it by the frameskip ratio. The REAL is the number of unique /different frames actually drawn to the screen averaged by seconds. There are many games that at MAX draw 30 frames per second. If REAL is 5, and FPS is 10, and you get a VS of 30, your effectively going half of fullspeed (Vsync of 50/60).
We'll redo how things are reported to make more sense. I'm working on savestates, and Unai is working on redoing the GPU to give back more frames per second to make things less choppy and overall faster. I have more dynarec work to do as well.
zacaj: Thanks for the heads up, does it crash randomly in that game or usually at a certain point at different times?
Ripster: I noticed you're using a PSX CYCLE of 2.0. Might not be the best setting for this release. Usually 1.0 or 1.5 is best, with a different PSX CLOCK. Though I also noticed this game probably suffers from the GPU bug we were dealing with that I described, as the framerate is cut in half. Best advice: try a different game until it's fixed in the next release.
Games that ran at 4 FPS in the previous release are going to perform worse in this release. Games that ran at near playable speeds last release, will do much better in this one. Also I noticed 3D games tend to suffer from frameskip issues and the half-framerate issue. Anyone play any 2D games with this build, especially ones that ran decent last release?
WITH FRAMESKIP ON, LOOK AT THE "VS" INDICATOR.
It gives a better feel for the actual fps when frameskip is on.
THIS IS BECAUSE FPS/REAL IS ONLY SHOWING THE *EFFECTIVE* RATE OF *DIFFERENT* FRAMES.
IF A GAME FEELS SLOWER WITH THE DEFAULT FRAMESKIP, TRY FRAMESKIP 0/1 (OFF) OR FRAMESKIP 1/2 (ON).
ALSO NOTICE HOW THE VS CAN BE 60 BUT FPS/REAL CAN BE ZERO! YOU OBVIOUSLY KNOW ITS DOING SOMETHING BUT THE FPS IS 0!
THIS IS BECAUSE ITS A STATIC FRAME BEING DRAWN TO THE SCREEN, AND SINCE IT'S NOT DIFFERENT THAN THE PREVIOUS FRAME, FPS REPORTS 0! Of course the framerate isn't 0, and most emulators would just report the VS (vsync) as the fps. But debugging is more important still than what each number is called and how large it looks next to fps. If it feels faster, its faster. If it doesnt, try different settings.
The GPU doesn't blit unnecessary frames. This adds to performance, by not drawing the same exact frame over and over. In the FPS report menu option: VS (Vsync) is how many times a frame is asked for. FPS is the number of different frames drawn per second by taking the REAL frames and multiplying it by the frameskip ratio. The REAL is the number of unique /different frames actually drawn to the screen averaged by seconds. There are many games that at MAX draw 30 frames per second. If REAL is 5, and FPS is 10, and you get a VS of 30, your effectively going half of fullspeed (Vsync of 50/60).
We'll redo how things are reported to make more sense. I'm working on savestates, and Unai is working on redoing the GPU to give back more frames per second to make things less choppy and overall faster. I have more dynarec work to do as well.
zacaj: Thanks for the heads up, does it crash randomly in that game or usually at a certain point at different times?
Ripster: I noticed you're using a PSX CYCLE of 2.0. Might not be the best setting for this release. Usually 1.0 or 1.5 is best, with a different PSX CLOCK. Though I also noticed this game probably suffers from the GPU bug we were dealing with that I described, as the framerate is cut in half. Best advice: try a different game until it's fixed in the next release.
Games that ran at 4 FPS in the previous release are going to perform worse in this release. Games that ran at near playable speeds last release, will do much better in this one. Also I noticed 3D games tend to suffer from frameskip issues and the half-framerate issue. Anyone play any 2D games with this build, especially ones that ran decent last release?
Ripster
Member
Thanks Zodttd for the reply... I only ran it at cycle 2.0 as a test... I normally run most things at or near the default settings. I was using UMXPRime's post as a template... I noticed that he was using the skip frame function which I thought would skew results so I turned it off during my testing. ( 0/1...?).
Like I said in the previous post... I am running the 07.24.07 gpe file with your current support files for the latest release... and the memory card support is back... (yea you)... This combination of files seems to also run better than the full 07.24.07 package... or it could be just my imagination... I would have to reload the previous complete download to be sure... but it has a better feeling about it... especially between holes when they show a flyover of the next hole, it is much smoother and quicker. And just as a note... this game was running at a fairly reasonable rate... between 9-13 fps... and playable.
Like I mentioned... its almost as if you supplied the wrong gpe in this release... because the 07.24.07 gpe... is running much better for me in combination with the new support files. It may just be for this game... but you might want to test this configuration just out of interest.
However... as I keep saying; your latest 08.02.07 gpe has dramatically improved the video quality.
Great work... I am sure that you and Unai will eventually have a full-speed PSX emu.
Like I said in the previous post... I am running the 07.24.07 gpe file with your current support files for the latest release... and the memory card support is back... (yea you)... This combination of files seems to also run better than the full 07.24.07 package... or it could be just my imagination... I would have to reload the previous complete download to be sure... but it has a better feeling about it... especially between holes when they show a flyover of the next hole, it is much smoother and quicker. And just as a note... this game was running at a fairly reasonable rate... between 9-13 fps... and playable.
Like I mentioned... its almost as if you supplied the wrong gpe in this release... because the 07.24.07 gpe... is running much better for me in combination with the new support files. It may just be for this game... but you might want to test this configuration just out of interest.
However... as I keep saying; your latest 08.02.07 gpe has dramatically improved the video quality.
Great work... I am sure that you and Unai will eventually have a full-speed PSX emu.
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