Prototype case and Mainboard Assembly (small video)

[Saber]

My biggest problem with pandora is actually the opening mechanism. Would it be possible to add some "steps" as nintendo 3ds have? 

Your question reminds me of another asked before which was if we could have some vertical knurling where the lid opens centered at the front.

My Macbook has a lip hang there, but some kind of ridging would be nice to have for a thumb swipe motion: 

Spoiler

 

[Bosbeetle]

So with the last part arriving can we expect some images of a working prototype in a case.. or will that only happen after the CPU board is finished?

 

[levi]

Well, it depends what you mean by 'working'.  Currently missing is the CPU layout, the CPU boards, the keymat, and use of the rotation chip (although that's progressing well last I heard).  The keymat could take a while, so the next prototype is unlikely to have a working d-pad or buttons, or a complete keyboard, so I'm not completely sure what benefit there would be to showing the screen working in a case, rather than out of one, although it might help to get people more excited about the product than showing it working laid out on a desk, even though they both mean exactly the same in terms of progress.

 

[Grench]

I'm guessing that the keymat and keyboard surround case mold are a bit of chicken & egg.  One needs to be finalized to have the parts to finalize the other.  So, ~ 2 months to produce a keymat mold so that it is available to do final design and testing on a case mold, which would be another ~2 months.  3d printed cases would happen in this process so that the keymat could be tested - likely the first working handheld prototypes.  So, my rough estimate is that they're at least 4-5 months out on the molds.

SoC board and electronic hardware should be getting worked in parallel - may be done/ready by the time the case and keymat molds are done.

When all of that is done, everything needs to go into a small batch production to output a few dozen test units.  A few tweaks, changes, testing cycles would be done to get it 'right'.  Those cycles aren't fast.  Likely another 2 months there.

Then it's production time - but likely starting slow to test things more frequently at first.  So, maybe 100 units the first week, 200 the next and on up to going 'full' production of 1000 units a week or so at the end of 2 months.

So, a conservative estimate puts this as on-the-shelf stocked and available sometime around 9 months from now - so a December/January time frame may not be unrealistic.

I'm sure ED and his team will look for ways to speed that up.  They want this thing produced and selling into consumer hands more than anyone else.

 

[johhnycomelately]

Well the NGAGE had Taco talking, Pyra will have Clam Talking.


No swiveling of the LCD screen. The Pyra wasn't initially designed for phone support, the main use will be for data, however it can be used as a phone albeit a clumsy one.

Is there any space in the top half to fit a second lcd screen just for telephony? Nothing fancy just something to display the typical smartphone homescreen: weather widgets, messages, reminders, dialerapp etc? That way you dont have to clam talk....

 

[johhnycomelately]

^^ and mic+speaker of course...

 

[TrashyMG]

Is there any space in the top half to fit a second lcd screen just for telephony? Nothing fancy just something to display the typical smartphone homescreen: weather widgets, messages, reminders, dialerapp etc? That way you dont have to clam talk....
^^ and mic+speaker of course... 

From what I understand there is only room for the display and the display controller board on the LCD portion of the device. You can even see this in the video on the original post.  Phone features are not the primary goal of this device.


That said the logo on the back will have light up via a RGB LED, possible giving indications like incoming call, voice mail or text message.  

 

[johhnycomelately]

Is there any space in the top half to fit a second lcd screen just for telephony? Nothing fancy just something to display the typical smartphone homescreen: weather widgets, messages, reminders, dialerapp etc? That way you dont have to clam talk....
^^ and mic+speaker of course... 

From what I understand there is only room for the display and the display controller board on the LCD portion of the device. You can even see this in the video on the original post.  Phone features are not the primary goal of this device.


That said the logo on the back will have light up via a RGB LED, possible giving indications like incoming call, voice mail or text message.  

Whats the point of putting in a GSM option if you dont go the extra mile? most public places have wifi these days so youre covered as far as internet is concerned...who wants to have to open their clamshell everytime they need to "get back" to someone?

its like those 3G module options laptop manufacturers offer but nobody ever uses them because^^ ... all it does is raise cost...

I say since the GSM module is an option make the "GSM-model" accomodate an extra screen on the top with mic/speakers; yes itll be more expensive than the standard model, yes it'll be slightly thicker but it would be a proper GSM-phone model, and people who want that functionality will pay for it(obviously there is a significant demand for it to be considered in the first place?).

 

[ekianjo]

most public places have wifi these days so youre covered as far as internet is concerned.

Not in Japan - there's virtually public wifi nowhere, and when there is it's paying, and expensive.  

 

[johhnycomelately]

Ive never been to japan but a quick google yields:

http://flets.com/freewifi/index.html

http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2279.html

I guess you must be in the Tokyo area?:

http://travel.cnn.com/tokyo/play/why-oh-why-no-wifi-tokyo-357695

Even they seem to have some wifi now...

 

[rygD]

its like those 3G module options laptop manufacturers offer but nobody ever uses them because^^ ... all it does is raise cost... 

That is exactly what this is, an extra add on for additional cost.  I am pretty sure the reason it was originally planned was for data.  Since this community has a lot of people that like to do more with what they have voice is something a few of us want to use it for, but is not why it is being included.  For those that don't like that, or don't want or need to be constantly connected (or live somewhere that has omnipresent public wifi) the wifi only version will be available.

I say since the GSM module is an option make the "GSM-model" accomodate an extra screen on the top with mic/speakers; yes itll be more expensive than the standard model, yes it'll be slightly thicker but it would be a proper GSM-phone model, and people who want that functionality will pay for it(obviously there is a significant demand for it to be considered in the first place?).

No.

Doing that will further increase the cost.  Not just a little.  I don't have the knowledge of manufacturing and pricing parts for something like this, but I would not be surprised if this doubled the cost after everything is said and done.  This would require another screen, the mic and speaker, development costs, a different display board and another case mold.  Additionally all these things take time.  I would rather have my Pyra in the next year or two.  Those delays would also bring in more people complaining about how it will be obsolete/outdated before it is made.  It might end up being thicker as well, so less pocketable.  I know gigantic fones are all the rage in some places, but the Pyra will already be pretty big, and there is very little to be gained for the target audience by adding these things.

Why don't you look into other options like the screens people wear on their wrists that connect to devices via bluetooth, and use a headset?

If you can come up with a way to add on* something that gives a second forward facing screen that can be used to keep a terminal up at all times, and allow us to play 3/DS games with, I am all for that.  Maybe it can fold back when the Pyra is closed to provide the stuff you want.

*As in something that isn't part of the Pyra.

 

[thatgui]

...


I say since the GSM module is an option make the "GSM-model" accomodate an extra screen on the top with mic/speakers; yes itll be more expensive than the standard model, yes it'll be slightly thicker but it would be a proper GSM-phone model, and people who want that functionality will pay for it(obviously there is a significant demand for it to be considered in the first place?).

three problems:

• the area were you live may have a lot of access point you can hop from one to another but this is not the case for everyone, and that will get cumbersome even for people that are in that situation, but like to go to more rural areas too. But thats one of the reasons why there is a non mobile data version, not everyone wants or needs that functionality
• I am using the term "mobile data version" because that is what it is: a mobile data version exists because ED came to the conclusion that is a good idea, wether this was because of a demand the community made, or just because ED thought that it would be needed to offer one. But the intention was never there to also make the Pyra a phone, part of this was that if you advertise something you have to deliver it also in some way, but that just wont gonna happen: The Pyra (as the Pandora before) was created within the mindest of "we provide the hardware and do as much as we can to deliver a stable system, but a lot of 'frosting' needs to come frome the community", this means in the contrary to other areas like WLAN/Bluetooth/USB/etc there is no readily available suit of software modules that allow (more or less) easy usage of these specific functionalities. There are several software projects for Linux that offer phone functionality but its nothing that really "settled in" in the Linux software environment, so wether people can use their Pandora to make calls in they future is totally up to the community - nothing ED can base business decisions on.
  Why its even in there, you may ask. Because its possible without paying a lot extra and ED thought it was a good idea not to artificially limit the capabilities
  
• Costs, there are of course additional cost, but not only the electronics itself, but you would need an additional mold to cater the different lid you would need. Just look at the donation sidebar, how much the molds for the Pyra will cost - the lid part is surely not the biggest part of that, but you won't get that additional for several hundred bucks either.

All in all I guess ED made a mistake here, he should have kept it to himself that the module would allow voice calls, till the Pyra launched. This way, a lot of this nonsensical discussion could have been avoided.

 

[johhnycomelately]

its like those 3G module options laptop manufacturers offer but nobody ever uses them because^^ ... all it does is raise cost... 

That is exactly what this is, an extra add on for additional cost.  I am pretty sure the reason it was originally planned was for data.  Since this community has a lot of people that like to do more with what they have voice is something a few of us want to use it for, but is not why it is being included.  For those that don't like that, or don't want or need to be constantly connected (or live somewhere that has omnipresent public wifi) the wifi only version will be available.

I say since the GSM module is an option make the "GSM-model" accomodate an extra screen on the top with mic/speakers; yes itll be more expensive than the standard model, yes it'll be slightly thicker but it would be a proper GSM-phone model, and people who want that functionality will pay for it(obviously there is a significant demand for it to be considered in the first place?).

No.

Doing that will further increase the cost.  Not just a little.  I don't have the knowledge of manufacturing and pricing parts for something like this, but I would not be surprised if this doubled the cost after everything is said and done.  This would require another screen, the mic and speaker, development costs, a different display board and another case mold.  Additionally all these things take time.  I would rather have my Pyra in the next year or two.  Those delays would also bring in more people complaining about how it will be obsolete/outdated before it is made.  It might end up being thicker as well, so less pocketable.  I know gigantic fones are all the rage in some places, but the Pyra will already be pretty big, and there is very little to be gained for the target audience by adding these things.

Why don't you look into other options like the screens people wear on their wrists that connect to devices via bluetooth, and use a headset?

If you can come up with a way to add on* something that gives a second forward facing screen that can be used to keep a terminal up at all times, and allow us to play 3/DS games with, I am all for that.  Maybe it can fold back when the Pyra is closed to provide the stuff you want.

*As in something that isn't part of the Pyra.

Why ?

When I can just get a vanilla pyra(for less) and carry a ($0.99)usb tether cable along with my smartphone? I'm not a big fan of the idea of having to switch out the sim card everytime I decide to either do "internet" computing/make & receive calls...

Unless of course you're implying that the GSM-model owners have more than 1 GSM module/phone plan? i.e. one for voice and one for data, one for work and one for pleasure etc? If thats the case then well I'm definitely not a part of the "intended" consumer base

 

[johhnycomelately]

^^in fact most smartphones have a wifi hotspot mode anyways so the USB cable isnt even a necessity these days really...

 

[rygD]

Why ?

When I can just get a vanilla pyra(for less) and carry a ($0.99)usb tether cable along with my smartphone? I'm not a big fan of the idea of having to switch out the sim card everytime I decide to either do "internet" computing/make & receive calls...

Unless of course you're implying that the GSM-model owners have more than 1 GSM module/phone plan? i.e. one for voice and one for data, one for work and one for pleasure etc? If thats the case then well I'm definitely not a part of the "intended" consumer base

I can't tell what you are asking about, and based on my best guess thatgui already explained it.  The cellular data option is so that those who want to have Internet access from places where there is no other way to connect.  If you are better served by tethering that is probably a much better idea than getting the GSM model.

I can't speak for everyone here, however it seems that those interested in the Pyra are looking for a device where there is a very small gap in the market.  Their interests seem to include a combination of real computer use and playing old games with a full keyboard and phyical controls on a pocket sized device.  They seem to be at least a bit outside of the mainstream, and find that current popular devices can be replaced or supplemented by what the Pyra/Pandora offers.  These devices are largely for a community that likes to play around outside the bounds of the typical user/consumer realm, so they are very hacker friendly devices with a lot of choices made to support the community in having options.  One of those is providing an option for the GSM module.  I have seen someone mention they want it for GPS use only.  These are the people this is for.  Some of them are really weird.

About me personally: I would want to own 0 activated mobile fones if this were possible.  I hate them for many reasons.  Since people need to be able to reach me no matter where I am I must have one.  Even if I am unable to receive cellular calls and text messages, a Pyra that will allow me data use on a cellular network still lets those people get ahold of me in other ways, possibly using voip and such.  It would also let me carry one less item when I leave home for the day, and I would be less concerned about staying near a place where I can charge my battery.  We will have to wait to find out if there is a solution for a cellular module that will work where I live, and if the Pyra battery will last all day while using it.

 

[thatgui]

^^in fact most smartphones have a wifi hotspot mode anyways so the USB cable isnt even a necessity these days really...

Where is your problem ? If you are really interested in the Pyra then just buy the WLAN only version, and be happy that you can just use hotspots all the way. What good can come out of you picking on a usecase you clearly don't match and are clearly unwilling to understand ?

 

[ekianjo]

Ive never been to japan but a quick google yields:

http://flets.com/freewifi/index.html

http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2279.html

I guess you must be in the Tokyo area?:

http://travel.cnn.com/tokyo/play/why-oh-why-no-wifi-tokyo-357695

Even they seem to have some wifi now...

Many of them require registration even the free ones... and look, even this :

Hundreds of Starbucks coffee shops nationwide. Registration must be done in advance.

This is how much the wifi situation sucks BAD in Japan. Having to register in advance before going out just blows my mind on how stupid this is.

Yes, there are more places with wifi than before, but it's still SO BAD compared to anywhere in Europe. 

 

[EvilDragon]

There is not really public wifi spots available in Germany as well.


I can already use my Pandora and tether it with my phone, but barely do that...


Why?


For a few reasons:


1. It sucks the phones battery even more, so after a couple of hours my phone is empty.


2. I need to enable tethering, etc. each time I quickly want to look something up.


3. Often I don't have my phone with me, so I couldn't even do that.


At least in Germany, there are special mobile internet contracts with no voice options, meant for tablets and stuff like that. I'll even offer one of those in my shop.


Or you can get additional sim cards with your contract, so you don't need to switch (I got one for my Mifi Hotspot, e.g.).


My plan is to get rid of my smartphone (as the sluggishness is annoying, sometimes it hangs and I can't even answer a phone call... and yes, every Android phone I ever had did have that issue) and replace it with a classic mobile phone (without fancy display, BT or Wifi, but a battery life of two weeks).


And the Pyra will replace it for all the stuff my smartphone did.

 

[ekianjo]

At least in Germany, there are special mobile internet contracts with no voice options, meant for tablets and stuff like that.

Same here in Japan. I would probably do that if the Pyra has this capability.  

 

[johhnycomelately]

@ED : Yeah that makes sense for a person wanting to move away from a smartphone. Also about the battery consumption during tethering do you mean USB tethering or WIFI hotspot ?

I too was wondering if it was possible to completely eliminate my android smartphone and have a future-proof smartphone which is what I thought the pyra could be if it had a dialer/home screen; just thinking about running sailfishOS on it makes me giddy but i guess the demand just isnt strong enought to justify the added dev costs !

I personally have a gut feeling that smartphones running a linux OS like nemomobile/sailfishOS/tizen etc would allow for a more stable smartphone experience on "lesser" hardware... but then again thats just an uneducated hunch!