Possibility For Uk Purchasers Of Pandora To Save A Bit Of Money?

[LuvClub]

I know I am going to be flamed to bits for this, but...........

USD PRICE

Pandora $330
Accessories:
TV OUT $19.99
CARRY CASE $19.99
BATTERY $28.99
Power Adaptor $7.99
Stylus $7.00
Dev Fund $20

Air Mail shipping $24
UPS 24/48 hr shipping $49


UK GBP PRICE

Pandora £266.20 (includes VAT)

Accessories
TV OUT £13.72
CARRY CASE £13.72
BATTERY £19.88
POWER ADAPTOR £6.30
Stylus £4.38
Dev Fund £10

Special Delivery shipping £7.20 (UK)

EURO PRICE

Pandora - 298.22 (includes VAT at 15%)
TV OUT - 15.37
CASE - 15.37
BATTERY - 22.28
ADAPTOR - 7.29
DEV FUND - 15.00
STYLUS - 5.08

Air Mail Shipping - 17.56
UPS 24/48 Hr - 36.97

Based on the above prices I am paying £287.12 for my order in GBP and all inclusive of 15% VAT

Pandora £266.20
TV Out £13.72
Special Delivery (P&P) £7.20
Total £287.12

As I understand it Openpandora are now unofficially accepting Google Checkout. Would it be possible for a UK based purchaser to be billed in USD?!?

I cannot think of any logical reason that this cannot be done when looking at it in the point of view of it being just a business transaction and if we forget about all of this "supporting the developers" lark and paying "extra" as a sign of support. Why should it be compulsory for UK purchasers to be pay extra "support" anyway?

If you look at it from OpenPandora's point of view then they are still making one sale and it would seem that the base costs are all in USD anyway so why not pay in USD???

So if USD prices are used then it will be:
Pandora $330
TV Out $19.99
Subtotal $402.49 (incl 15% VAT)
ADD UK Special Delivery $11.52 (UK VAT inclusive price £7.20 converted at say 1.60 exchange rate)

Total $414.01 (equivalent to GBP £258.76 at say 1.60 exchange rate)

Thereby giving a saving of £28.36!!

If it is fine with OpenPandora then I might cancel my existing order and re-order using this method as first-batch order slots seem to be forever re-appearing and most of the late pre-orderers would probably get their orders within a few weeks anyway. Otherwise wait for the second batch which does not seem so far off anymore.

I know you will all think I'm a scum so flame away!!

 

[gruso]

I don't think you're scum for bringing this up, but I don't think you're going to have any luck either.

 

[adolobe]

Google check out doesnt work that way. They cant just decide the currency. Its based off there depositing bank location. So they will always bill you in pounds. My bill was in pounds and I paid in dollars google just converts it to the accurate currency. Granted it could cost more or less depending on when you buy it as currency are always in flux.

Also the dollar was stronger when the prices were first set

I dont think your scum and I do see your point. But this is really a question for Open Pandora and not the forum

 

[LuvClub]

My bill was in pounds and I paid in dollars google just converts it to the accurate currency.

Thanks for explaining how Google Checkout works.

If it is like you say, then I don't understand why they cannot bill us UK'ers the equivalent they billed you plus 15% VAT.

I assume they billed you the roughly GBP equivalent of USD$330 as at the billing date's exchange rate.

 

[RajTakhar]

you could ask if they now accept paypal, given delivery is expected in 30 days ish - in which case you could send money as USD transaction

 

[Sugar_Kane]

The only way around it would be to have it delivered from the states, but as they don't pay vat you'll get slapped with it here, plus import tax and end up paying about £70 quid extra.

 

[chris_r]

Short answer: because that's tax evasion and highly illegal

 

[jaycee900]

lol@chris that never stops the polititians doing it....

 

[LuvClub]

Short answer: because that's tax evasion and highly illegal

I think showing support is one thing but calling it tax evasion is really pushing it.

I do not know all the facts but I presume OpenPandora has 2 accounts (one in GBP and one in USD), though possibly there is only one GBP account.
I also presume that all UK and US sales are made by the same UK based company therefore UK sales would be VATable and US sales not.

When a UK customer orders they are asked to pay the UK prices (which already include VAT) into the GBP account. Most of this money would subsequently be converted to USD to cover all the expenses which we are told are mainly priced in USD.

When a US customer orders they are asked to pay the US prices (which exclude VAT) into the USD account or possibly GBP account via Google Checkout or Paypal in their own currency.

If both UK and US sales are paid into the same GBP account then why should the proceeds from an individual UK Sales (net of VAT) be greater than a US Sale?
If both GBP and USD accounts are used then the funds in the GBP account most probably will be promptly converted to USD or used for USD purchases anyway, so individual UK sales (net) proceeds still will be more than the US.

What I am trying to say is that there should be no difference between a UK and a US customer apart from VAT and P&P as long as VAT is paid on the UK customer sales.

There is no hint of "tax evasion" as it would be OpenPandora's duty to keep proper records of both UK sales and International sales and pay the appropriate VAT on the UK sales and declare both in their UK financial accounts and pay UK corporation tax. It isn't against the law to invoice in a foreign currency. You could ask for it to be paid with biscuits if you wanted to.

The only way around it would be to have it delivered from the states, but as they don't pay vat you'll get slapped with it here, plus import tax and end up paying about £70 quid extra.

There is no reason why a UK customer cannot "request" (though most likely it won't be granted due to the discrepancy between UK and US prices) to be invoiced in USD as long as the VAT is also added to the invoice and this cannot be classed as tax evasion. For all intents and purposes the sale would be the same as any GBP sale and there would be no valid reason why shipping and import duty from the US should be added as it is not added to any other purchases made using GBP. Remember this sale is still made by the same UK based company.

Exchange rate differences cannot explain this discrepancy and it could only be possibly explained by saying that UK Pandoras are just plain more expensive due to the need to further ship it to the UK from the US. If it is this reason then it should not be advertised as $330 for all on the website and it should be stated as such that UK customers just plain need to pay more.

I know that a lot of you would say you are willing to pay more anyway as a sign of support and that it is our choice to buy it or not, but it still looks like another case of Rip-Off Britain.

Though I could be totally wrong and in fact there could be 2 independent companies operating (in US and in UK) and both charging differently. If so then I'm deeply sorry.

 

[Polossatik]

This was asked before and the difference had to do with the £/$ price at the moment the pre-orders where opend and price of parts where calaculated to be ordered (IIRC).
Can't find the thread anymore.
anyone?

 

[LuvClub]

This was asked before and the difference had to do with the £/$ price at the moment the pre-orders where opend and price of parts where calaculated to be ordered (IIRC).
Can't find the thread anymore.
anyone?

That seems like such a looooong time ago now and we must move on. If the price difference is due to the £/$ exchange rates back then, then why should it still stay in effect now?

What is stopping UK customers from being billed in USD (+VAT) and paying via Google Checkout or Paypal? Would it be because earlier GBP pre-orderers would say it is unfair? But wouldn't each subsequent USD order be considered unfair anyway as the US customer would be paying less when both sales proceeds are converted into the same currency.

Why should the UK customer be saddled with the exchange rate fluctuations?

If the $330 is supposed to be the cost and USD to be the base currency then everyone should pay the equivalent at the billing date and be refunded the corresponding equivalent at the refund date.

If say the exchange rate freaks out and is 1GBP to 330USD then I would need to pay 1GBP.
If say the exchange rate freaks out the other way and is 1,000,000GBP to 330USD then I would need to pay 1,000,000GBP.

What difference would it make to OpenPandora if all they should be concerned with is to make their $330 sale!?!!?

 

[Dead1nside]

I've raised the problem of an artificially inflated GBP price before.

The short and long of being billed in USD when you're not resident there is that it is tax evasion, at least it's not allowed for a UK registered business to do that -- that is what has been explained to me.

 

[Polossatik]

If say the exchange rate freaks out the other way and is 1,000,000GBP to 330USD then I would need to pay 1,000,000GBP.

I think then you would not complain about the current £ price but I get your point, really.

You can say the same of all the people who payed at the first pre-order time in €/£ to fund the whole thing (like me).
We payed a long time before the device actually ships and because of that we would pay more then people chipping in now?
Not trying to start a rant here, just an other look at it.

By the way I found the other thread that was just about the same thing, i'm sure there are more.

 

[LuvClub]

I've raised the problem of an artificially inflated GBP price before.

The short and long of being billed in USD when you're not resident there is that it is tax evasion, at least it's not allowed for a UK registered business to do that -- that is what has been explained to me.

Even though in the real world there would rarely be any need to bill a UK resident in USD I do not believe that it could ever be considered tax evasion as long as the invoiced amount in USD (+VAT) is converted to GBP on the invoice date using the daily rates on the Bank of England website and the same done when payment received. Any differences would be chargeable to the Profit/Loss on foreign exchange in the P+L accounts of the company. The same would have to be done for actual US sales anyway.

Depending on the situation the average weekly or monthly exchange rates on the HMRC website could be used to simplify things even more.

I was suggesting UK customers being invoiced in USD to explain the unjustness of UK customers being charged more for no apparent reason.

 

[WizardStan]

What difference would it make to OpenPandora if all they should be concerned with is to make their $330 sale!?!!?

They ordered the parts way back February or March. They paid a certain amount GBP per unit, so they're recouping that by locking the price at the exchange rate it was.
What I don't understand is why the USD price didn't shift as well. And I mean I don't understand because I haven't seen their balance sheets. I'm sure it all works out and would make perfect sense, but I don't expect them to (and honestly hope they don't) divulge that much information.

 

[worzyl]

Who's handling the special delivery? Please don't use ParcelForce! If it is, I'll be willing to put in extra cash to have it shipped via some other method, or go to Craig's house and collect it myself!

...which exactly what I should of done with the "ParcelForce handled" laptop that never reached my house...

 

[fearofshorts]

Sorry to potentially derail this topic, but I can't use the search feature well and I didn't want to waste time with a new topic:
As an Aussie, will I have to pay anything extra on top of the 200 GBP? Do I need to pay shipping/taxes? Anybody know what the situation is for me?
Sorry once more, please forgive me.

 

[WizardStan]

Sorry to potentially derail this topic, but I can't use the search feature well and I didn't want to waste time with a new topic:
As an Aussie, will I have to pay anything extra on top of the 200 GBP? Do I need to pay shipping/taxes? Anybody know what the situation is for me?
Sorry once more, please forgive me.

You need to pay shipping, you do not need to directly pay taxes since you are not a British resident.
However, when it crosses the border, you may end up paying duty fees: taxes to your own country. Or you might get lucky and it'll just pass on through without worry. We shall see.

 

[puckman]

All this for a 28 quid savings?

 

[fearofshorts]

Thanks Stan!
Did some research, and there's good news for us Aussies.
No duties or taxes on products under $1000 AUD!
Shipping might be annoying though...