Lucky Enough To Get An Email Back


Paradox

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how long does it take to get a reply for how to pay? I got an email about 4 days ago saying I could pre order it so I replied telling them yeah i'll take it, and I havn't had anything since like how to actually send the money
 

Dead1nside

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WizardStan said:
They haven't switched. They've always accepted payment in GBP only. All cheques had to be converted to GBP, all transfers were in GBP. Google checkout receipts have all been in GBP. Always (more or less) the same GBP.

Let's start with basics, because from your responses I don't know how much you actually know or understand.
OpenPandora is a UK company. They have members in the UK, Germany, Canada... somewhere else... but it is based in the UK. They have a UK bank full of GBP monies.
They bought parts and services from various places outside the UK, in currencies different from GBP. For the sake of example, I will assume they are literally making zero profit on this batch. In such a case, the total cost divided by 4000 was 330 USD per console. When converted to local currency (because they didn't pay in USD, they paid in GBP which was then converted to USD), it cost them 231 GBP per console.
Now, many months later, the exchange rates have changed, but it still cost them 231 GBP per console to make. Therefore, they must charge YOU 231 GBP per console. Since you're in the UK, you're also getting dinged with VAT for an additional 35 GBP, total 266 GBP.
When they do a second batch, it will again cost 330 USD, but depending on when they actually pay for the parts will determine exactly how much it will be in GBP.
Why are they paying in USD, you may be asking? Because TI and the assembly factory are in the US. You have to pay OpenPandora in GBP (because they're a UK company) in the same way that OpenPandora has to pay TI (a US company) in USD.
Is this making more sense yet?

It is beginning to yes. But that doesn't explain the switch from USD-GBP that they made. I remember those discussions but not why they had to make that switch. Certainly the price used to be listed as GBP on their website and then it switched to USD.

I was under the misconception that they were converting all monies received into USD, and that the motivation behind it was that their suppliers in both China and the US preferred it this way.

So everyone in the EU and those outside the EU are both billed in GBP?
 
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WizardStan

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Dead1nside said:
It is beginning to yes. But that doesn't explain the switch from USD-GBP that they made. I remember those discussions but not why they had to make that switch. Certainly the price used to be listed as GBP on their website and then it switched to USD.

I was under the misconception that they were converting all monies received into USD, and that the motivation behind it was that their suppliers in both China and the US preferred it this way.

So everyone in the EU and those outside the EU are both billed in GBP?
The switch to displaying USD was because it sounded better, I would bet. No other reason. Pure marketing ploy. Someone on the team could confirm or deny, but I can't see any other reason, nor do I see any reason to have another reason. Marketing departments around the world have done far worse then displaying their prices in conflicting currencies.

Everyone paid in GBP. Except possibly those that bought from EvilDragon's shop. Being in Germany, they may have paid in Euros, but I can't say for certain.
Everyone buying from GBAX, Craig's shop in the UK, has to pay in GBP. I'm in Canada, and I had to get a bank draft for GBP. That was one of the chief complaints when pre-orders started: it is expensive for Americans and Australians (and other countries as well, but it was mostly the Americans and Australians doing the complaining) to get bank drafts in foreign currencies.
Oh, you should have heard some of the complaints from Australia, even way back when the 230 GBP really was 330 USD. See, converting AUD to USD to GBP does not give the same amount as converting directly from AUD to GBP. They were advertising a price of 330 USD, which would have been cheaper in AUD than the equivalent 230 GBP. But of course, the 330 USD is just a gimmick, and the final price was in GBP, so they had to convert their AUD to GBP at a higher rate than AUD to USD.

edit: to answer the unasked question, they need in GBP because they paid for pretty much everything with their own funds. Craig mentioned taking out a second mortgage on his home to cover costs. He needs to repay himself with the first and second batch, and the bank won't accept USD to pay back his mortgage. Perhaps once costs have been recovered, and they're working on the third or fourth batch (or finally into a continuous stream) they'll start accepting in USD directly, but right now they need the GBP.
 
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Dead1nside

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WizardStan: Thank-you for all the time you've spent in trying to explain this to me. There are some questions that I don't think can be confirmed by anyone buy the dev team, however I lacked some of the historical knowledge from the time that preorders first opened.

It seems like the price and currency has been a pain point for many people. But the large explanation seems to be that the price is fixed now because that is the price that was paid for the manufacturing and so is the real price of a Pandora unit.

I can't say it's entirely crystal in my head but I think any more questions from me will just confuse me even more.
 

Aninhumer

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Paradox said:
how long does it take to get a reply for how to pay? I got an email about 4 days ago saying I could pre order it so I replied telling them yeah i'll take it, and I havn't had anything since like how to actually send the money
They've only got a few people handling all the emails, so it can take a while.
You should get a reply eventually.
 
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Tuxedomask29

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Aninhumer said:
Paradox said:
how long does it take to get a reply for how to pay? I got an email about 4 days ago saying I could pre order it so I replied telling them yeah i'll take it, and I havn't had anything since like how to actually send the money
They've only got a few people handling all the emails, so it can take a while.
You should get a reply eventually.

It took 3 months for them to send me an invoice after I said I wanted one but by looking at the forums it looks like their sending out invoices much faster now. If you haven't heard from them after, oh I'd say 3 weeks, I'd send another email to remind them that you need an invoice.
 
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LuvClub

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WizardStan said:
Now, many months later, the exchange rates have changed, but it still cost them 231 GBP per console to make. Therefore, they must charge YOU 231 GBP per console.

By your reasoning they would need to recover 231GBP from every sale, even if it is a Pandora sold to a US person. If so then wouldn't a person from the US need to pay the equivalent of 231GBP at today's exchnage rate (ie 380USD excluding the VAT which is not payable). It definitely looks like new UK customers are being made to pay more to recover losses.
 
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WizardStan

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LuvClub said:
By your reasoning they would need to recover 231GBP from every sale, even if it is a Pandora sold to a US person. If so then wouldn't a person from the US need to pay the equivalent of 231GBP at today's exchnage rate (ie 380USD excluding the VAT which is not payable). It definitely looks like new UK customers are being made to pay more to recover losses.
As far as I'm aware, US people ARE being charged the same 231GBP. Where, in my long posts of "everyone is paying the same price in the same currency" (even stated explicitly in some of them) did you get the idea that US people are paying in USD?
 
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transmition

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Oh dear, that is rather expensive. Sans shipping and a TV cable, the pandora will cost me $409.56 Canadian if we are converting from 231 GBP. That is a fair bit more then the approximate 330 USD (which works out to be $355.45).

Assuming that is I will get an email back stating I can purchase a unit that is :p

Will the prices drop for the second batch?
 

WizardStan

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Transmition said:
Oh dear, that is rather expensive. Sans shipping and a TV cable, the pandora will cost me $409.56 Canadian if we are converting from 231 GBP. That is a fair bit more then the approximate 330 USD (which works out to be $355.45).

Assuming that is I will get an email back stating I can purchase a unit that is :p

Will the prices drop for the second batch?
The price for the second batch is rumoured to be 340 USD, which will be converted to GBP at the time of pre-order.
That's the problem with international orders: you never know what the money market is going to do. If the exchange rate had gone the other way, that 231 GBP would have been less than 330 USD, and you would actually be "saving" money by having waited.
If you want it at the known price of 340 USD, wait for the second batch to come along and grab it right away, and don't worry about fluctuations in the money market.
 
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LuvClub

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WizardStan said:
As far as I'm aware, US people ARE being charged the same 231GBP. Where, in my long posts of "everyone is paying the same price in the same currency" (even stated explicitly in some of them) did you get the idea that US people are paying in USD?

As far as I'm aware by posts in this forum US people are being invoiced in USD

El Jefe said:
Tuxedomask29 said:
Pandora $330
Air Mail shipping $19

$330+$19=$349
Who knows if I'm allowed to post these... but whatevs:
USD PRICE

Pandora $330
Accessories:
TV OUT $19.99
CARRY CASE $19.99
BATTERY $28.99
Power Adaptor $7.99
Stylus $7.00
Dev Fund $20

Air Mail shipping $24
UPS 24/48 hr shipping $49

tax did not appear to be included in my final invoice....

#1 GameMaster said:
So the AC adapter/charger and stylus are included and you don't have to add them to the order right? :huh:

Because I only ordered the Pandora and AV cables, and I just wanted to make sure that I don't have to add the adapter and stylus because the E-mail I got had a list like the one bellow and I just figured that the adapter, battery and stylus on the list was if you wanted an extra one otherwise I need to see if I can still add stuff to it. (forgot to ask but does anybody know what the case will be like because I've thought of getting one.)
List:

USD PRICE

Pandora $330
Accessories:
TV OUT $19.99
CARRY CASE $19.99
BATTERY $28.99
Power Adaptor $7.99
Stylus $7.00
Dev Fund $20

Air Mail shipping $24
UPS 24/48 hr shipping $49
 
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WizardStan

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LuvClub said:
WizardStan said:
As far as I'm aware, US people ARE being charged the same 231GBP. Where, in my long posts of "everyone is paying the same price in the same currency" (even stated explicitly in some of them) did you get the idea that US people are paying in USD?

As far as I'm aware by posts in this forum US people are being invoiced in USD
touche. That does seem to raise a lot of questions. Seems highly inconsistent. As I said, early pre-orders, such as myself, were charged in GBP, and I do recall many recently inquiring about bank transfer and exchange rates, so why the sudden change? I do not have an answer for that.
 
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MrBlais

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WizardStan said:
LuvClub said:
WizardStan said:
As far as I'm aware, US people ARE being charged the same 231GBP. Where, in my long posts of "everyone is paying the same price in the same currency" (even stated explicitly in some of them) did you get the idea that US people are paying in USD?

As far as I'm aware by posts in this forum US people are being invoiced in USD
touche. That does seem to raise a lot of questions. Seems highly inconsistent. As I said, early pre-orders, such as myself, were charged in GBP, and I do recall many recently inquiring about bank transfer and exchange rates, so why the sudden change? I do not have an answer for that.

Well, maybe they didn't feel they needed to adjust the rate for you; they figured you would do it yourself, probably. Until US customers most likely kept questioning, "Is this really $250?" (No, it's 250 GBP, idiot.)

Most likely they include the adjusted prices for convenience for the customer and to make their e-mailings a little less stupid.
 
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Dead1nside

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WizardStan said:
The price for the second batch is rumoured to be 340 USD, which will be converted to GBP at the time of pre-order.
That's the problem with international orders: you never know what the money market is going to do. If the exchange rate had gone the other way, that 231 GBP would have been less than 330 USD, and you would actually be "saving" money by having waited.
If you want it at the known price of 340 USD, wait for the second batch to come along and grab it right away, and don't worry about fluctuations in the money market.

That's the thing though, the money market has recovered from its low of £/$ but the exchange rate is artificially being worsened or at least locked in to a previous value. That's what's not fair. If I was going to buy any other good, I'd get near the day's exchange rate on a foreign transaction. By them keeping the official price in USD when in fact everything's in GBP it's just conniving me out of extra money because as has been said $330 != £266.20 it is equal to £200.69 + VAT (Which would be around £230).

If this is the way that it's going to be always because of the long lead times they have to fix an exchange rate, then I'd say buy asap, because even though it dipped and came back up I've still got to pay more.

It has been said that future batches will probably be raised in price, which is one of the contributory reasons for me putting my money down now despite this issue with the artificial fixing of the price, I thought it might only get worse.
 
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LuvClub

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WizardStan said:
touche. That does seem to raise a lot of questions. Seems highly inconsistent. As I said, early pre-orders, such as myself, were charged in GBP, and I do recall many recently inquiring about bank transfer and exchange rates, so why the sudden change? I do not have an answer for that.

I do not begrudge early pre-orderers getting it for 200GBP, or whatever the corresponding USD at the time, as they were brave enough to take a risk in the first place.

I would be interested to know though (if it is truly the case and I have not misunderstood it) the reasons behind different amounts charged to UK and US customers excluding VAT and differences in p&p rates.

It would be exceedingly unfair if any negative changes in the exchange rates seem to be borne by UK customers only.
 
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MrBlais

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LuvClub said:
It would be exceedingly unfair if any negative changes in the exchange rates seem to be borne by UK customers only.

Yeah, as much as I would like cheaper prices, it's only fair to make people pay the same according to their country's exchange rates. It's not OP's fault, it's our shitty country's fault...
 
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Enverex

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At least the OpenPandora.org site doesn't say $330 anymore which is progress at least, the GBAX site still says "$330" which is effectively a lie (it's a UK site, why is the price in dollars at all? Ignoring the fact that it's nearly $100 wrong).
 

WizardStan

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Dead1nside said:
That's the thing though, the money market has recovered from its low of £/$ but the exchange rate is artificially being worsened or at least locked in to a previous value. That's what's not fair. If I was going to buy any other good, I'd get near the day's exchange rate on a foreign transaction. By them keeping the official price in USD when in fact everything's in GBP it's just conniving me out of extra money because as has been said $330 != £266.20 it is equal to £200.69 + VAT (Which would be around £230).
As I've said many, many, many times: you aren't buying something NOW. If you were buying from anywhere else for an item that already exists and will be shipped soon, you would get todays exchange rate because you are buying it today. The parts for this were bought months ago. You are effectively paying for something now that was bought months ago.
Imagine you had a friend who bought it for you way back in March, and now he wants his equal money back.
The fact that some US costumers are apparently paying 330USD is a source of confusion for me now. Seems highly inconsistent.
 
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LuvClub

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MrBlais said:
Yeah, as much as I would like cheaper prices, it's only fair to make people pay the same according to their country's exchange rates. It's not OP's fault, it's our shitty country's fault...

Its fine with everyone paying according to their own exchange rates, but based on what original cost?

For argument's sake lets say back then the GBP to USD was 1GBP to 1.43USD and say the cost of the materials/labour was 330USD.
Then (excluding taxes and p&p) UK people would pay 231GBP and US pay 330USD.

Now say the exchange rate improves and it is now 1GBP to 1.6USD.
Supposedly to recover original costs by OP (as the money was transferred from a GBP account in the UK), UK people would still pay the original 231GBP, but US still pay their original 330USD (now equivalent to 206.25GBP).

Why should OP lose 24.75GBP (231GBP-206.25GBP) on each subsequent US sale, while UK people need to pay the original OP outlay of 231GBP?

Wouldn't it be fairer if US people had to pay current equivalent of 231GBP (ie 369.6USD) too, to recover that same amount in that UK GBP bank account where the original funds were transferred from?

Or is it just easier to lose a bit of money on US sales for convenience sakes and to charge the UK people the full amount no matter what? Maybe the OP people are just more chummy with our US friends :)

For example if I loaned £1000 to a US friend at the 1.43 exchange rate I would expect the same amount returned in my bank account in the future (no matter how exchange rates change). If he only paid me £887.50 (based on the new rate of 1.6), I'll throw a barmy!
 
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