Portable X86 Device (Size Of Psp) To Play Ms-Dos Games Natively

[Exophase]

I wrote lots of words, read them.

You probably won't believe me but I actually did read that and still somehow didn't make the absolute connection that it'd actually be using USB as opposed to just the internal circuitry >_> Then again, I don't think anything non-USB would even be an option, I just thought you'd be rigging up your own USB output. Of course using a controller makes much more sense. Do you think replacing the analog input part of that will be straightforward?

I'll be interesting to see how the non-x86-only things on the 900MHz Atom compares against a Pandora, at say 800MHz.

Next problem is sound.... since most 1990 MS-DOS games mainly used Sound Blaster Pro compatible or Gravis Soundcards..... any ideas on sound? Can you get a Sound Blaster/Gravis PCMICA or USB? I think the last Sound Blaster Pro compatible was Audigy 1??

Something over USB isn't going to work, the DOS games won't have a way of seeing it. Your best bet is to use Linux and DOSEmu, or go with the DOS emulation in XP. If you use the latter there's a sound blaster emulator out there that will do what you need. Both solutions won't have perfect compatibility. Virtualization software like VMWare might work too, and might actually provide better compatibility, and possibly reduced performance. The overall idea is that you need to have DOS running in a virtualized environment so that access to audio hardware can be trapped and emulated.

I doubt the Audigy is SB compatible. Even the old SBLive! wasn't. I had to have an ISA SB16 chained in my computer to keep getting sound in DOS.

The other solution is DOSBox, but like I said earlier in this thread I feel that it defeats most of the point. It's true that right now DOSBox performs better on x86 than ARM due to having a more advanced recompiler for x86, but I hope this is something that will change in time.

 

[andwan0]

<snip>

or go with the DOS emulation in XP.
<snip>
I doubt the Audigy is SB compatible. Even the old SBLive! wasn't. I had to have an ISA SB16 chained in my computer to keep getting sound in DOS.

I think Windows 95/98 had good MS-DOS support & sound drivers.. ie. running an MS-DOS game via Windows 95/98 prompt box will allow it to use the generic Sound Blaster compatible within game... even if the Sound card is something else other than Creative Labs Sound Blaster. Then again.. it would require the handheld device having sound drivers FOR windows 95/98 :S

But yes, I have read and been told Audigy 1 was the last Sound Blaster compatible card for MS-DOS games.

 

[Exophase]

I think Windows 95/98 had good MS-DOS support & sound drivers.. ie. running an MS-DOS game via Windows 95/98 prompt box will allow it to use the generic Sound Blaster compatible within game... even if the Sound card is something else other than Creative Labs Sound Blaster. Then again.. it would require the handheld device having sound drivers FOR windows 95/98 :S

But yes, I have read and been told Audigy 1 was the last Sound Blaster compatible card for MS-DOS games.

Okay, here's the situation - SB Live!, Audigy, and newer cards don't implement SB at the hardware level. Apparently there's a TSR that can emulate it in the virtualized manner I described, even while in pure DOS. But I remember there being compatibility problems involved. It's not really surprising since anything else that intercepts port accesses could sabotage things, and emulating IRQs and DMA could be tricky. These TSRs probably wouldn't work in Windows, where you'd be subject to emulation that as far as I'm aware Windows doesn't provide. In some ways Win9x actually has worse DOS compatibility than ntvdm (Win2k/XP DOS emulator).

It's actually impossible for any non-ISA sound card to provide true compatibility. It's also no wonder that DOSBox has gained a lot of traction in the PC world. I'd personally be more concerned about hardware conflicts preventing EMS and the like from working, like what plagued users of MegaZeux before it was ported off DOS.

 

[cbox]

My Mitsubishi palmtop runs Windows98 and can play anything from that era and older. I've played some Warcraft and Doom and stuff like that on it, also have an older version of MAME on it. Specs are Pentium 166, 192 megs of ram, 2.1 gig hard drive, 8 inch 800 x 600 vga screen. Can probably find tons of older pcs like that online cheap, think I paid $100 for mine refurbed.

Please tell me more about this palmtop. You got a URL/link ?

It's really, really old, doubt I could find a link for it, they stopped making them back in the 90's. There are similar palmtops from that era available on ebay I'm sure, but might be more expensive.

Actually I googled it and there is still some info still out there about it, the model is the Mitsubishi Amity CN

 

[alucart1984]

My Mitsubishi palmtop runs Windows98 and can play anything from that era and older. I've played some Warcraft and Doom and stuff like that on it, also have an older version of MAME on it. Specs are Pentium 166, 192 megs of ram, 2.1 gig hard drive, 8 inch 800 x 600 vga screen. Can probably find tons of older pcs like that online cheap, think I paid $100 for mine refurbed.

Please tell me more about this palmtop. You got a URL/link ?

It's really, really old, doubt I could find a link for it, they stopped making them back in the 90's. There are similar palmtops from that era available on ebay I'm sure, but might be more expensive.

Actually I googled it and there is still some info still out there about it, the model is the Mitsubishi Amity CN

That doesn't look very portable....

 

[cbox]

The palmtop label was applied to it back in the 90's, just shows how miniaturized things have become since then.

 

[palmertech]

I will make a thread to update when my next update hits, like I said, could be a month or two. A guide is not likely, though. Anybody with the needed skill to build something like this and have it turn out okay are not going to need a step by step guide, just a general overview, if that. I will take pictures of my progress, but with custom made handhelds, you can often learn more from the concept than the process. Hopefully this does not break the advertising rules, but a good forum to read up on making custom handhelds is forums.modretro.com. Oddly enough, I happen to own it.

@Exophase: For sound in DOS, I planned on using VDMsound, any thoughts on it? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VDMSound

I believe you read it, I was just not very clear in my explanation of the input. It only has 3 hardware buttons by default, all capacitive ones. It maps them as F10, 11, and 12. Replacing the analog inputs will be trivial, there are really only two kinds of analog sticks in use, and simple modification allows them to substitute for each other: 5k and 10k potentiometer based analog sticks. For example, I can swap the analog stick of a PSP with a PS2 with a Gamecube with a Nunchuck with an Xbox with a 360 with a Tapwave Zodiac with a RetroCon with a Pandora, etc, etc. I have a ton of analog sticks, I really want to use the Pandora sticks, though (They are the best low profile joystick you can get, without resorting to gutting 2x Zodiacs).

And yes, it will be interesting to see how it does against a Pandora. What would be even more interesting is what would happen if a commercial company made something like this, especially 6 months ago or so. If it were a wee bit more powerful (Say, N280 Atom netbook specs) and managed 3 hours of battery life, I would be tempted to get one over a Pandora. If it was ION based and did the same, my choice would be made. Of course, making it at a $330 price point is somewhere around impossible.

 

[Dunny]

Was wondering if folks would go for the new iTablet from Apple. Before we all go all nerd-rage, yes - it's from Apple and will cost more than three times the price of a Panda for that reason alone. However...

There's some speculation about the SOC that they're going to use in it. If it's the OMAP/ARM type then we could likely see an iPhone interface inside it. If it's an Atom (or other portable x86), then we'll likely see a stripped down OSX in it. And of course, if it's x86 then it won't be very long at all before some enterprising little tyke has XP running on it. From there, it's a short hop to getting some sort of DOS - either emulation or through VDMSound or whatever.

D.

 

[palmertech]

No way will it be Atom based.

 

[Exophase]

@Exophase: For sound in DOS, I planned on using VDMsound, any thoughts on it? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VDMSound

We used it back in the day and when it works it works - that's not going to be all the time, but it'll be more often than with the Creative TSR. Back then not being able to use it on 9x was an issue (XP was still pretty new, I believe people were using it on 2k before XP was even out) but that shouldn't be one now. Still, I would suggest giving a VM or DOSEmu on Linux a shot as well.

 

[mali]

Was wondering if folks would go for the new iTablet from Apple. Before we all go all nerd-rage, yes - it's from Apple and will cost more than three times the price of a Panda for that reason alone. However...

There's some speculation about the SOC that they're going to use in it. If it's the OMAP/ARM type then we could likely see an iPhone interface inside it. If it's an Atom (or other portable x86), then we'll likely see a stripped down OSX in it. And of course, if it's x86 then it won't be very long at all before some enterprising little tyke has XP running on it. From there, it's a short hop to getting some sort of DOS - either emulation or through VDMSound or whatever.

D.

x86 is unlikely.
Tablet you say?

http://www.umpcportal.com/2010/01/dont-forget-the-tablets-46-of-them/

 

[Dunny]

if it's x86 then it won't be very long at all before some enterprising little tyke has XP running on it. From there, it's a short hop to getting some sort of DOS - either emulation or through VDMSound or whatever.

x86 is unlikely.

Unfortunately true:

http://www.theiphoneblog.com/2010/01/26/mcgrawhill-ceo-outs-itablet-apple-runs-iphone-os/

“Yeah, Very exciting. Yes, they’ll make their announcement tomorrow on this one. We have worked with Apple for quite a while. And the Tablet is going to be based on the iPhone operating system and so it will be transferable. So what you are going to be able to do now — we have a consortium of e-books. And we have 95% of all our materials that are in e-book format on that one. So now with the tablet you’re going to open up the higher education market, the professional market. The tablet is going to be just really terrific.”

and

http://www.theiphoneblog.com/2010/01/26/iphone-developer-program-license-leaks-update-27th-launch/

And, although idle speculation, carries more weight than you might imagine:

My guess is it'll almost certainly be custom silicon based around PPC architecture. Apple didn't pay $278m for PA Semi for nothing (and nothing is what we've seen from the acquisition thus far).

D.

 

[Exophase]

And, although idle speculation, carries more weight than you might imagine:

My guess is it'll almost certainly be custom silicon based around PPC architecture. Apple didn't pay $278m for PA Semi for nothing (and nothing is what we've seen from the acquisition thus far).

I find this very unlikely. If they're running an OS based around iPhone's then it'll probably be capable of running the same software, and if it's not then x86 is at least as likely. App-store compatibility is probably the main reason why they want to use a derived OS. Using PPC would also generate pretty negative user perception, since they ditched it in the desktop space.

Companies acquire other companies all the time without using their developed technology directly. PWRficient was really more of a desktop solution anyway.

 

[Dunny]

And, although idle speculation, carries more weight than you might imagine:

My guess is it'll almost certainly be custom silicon based around PPC architecture. Apple didn't pay $278m for PA Semi for nothing (and nothing is what we've seen from the acquisition thus far).

I find this very unlikely. If they're running an OS based around iPhone's then it'll probably be capable of running the same software, and if it's not then x86 is at least as likely. App-store compatibility is probably the main reason why they want to use a derived OS. Using PPC would also generate pretty negative user perception, since they ditched it in the desktop space.

Companies acquire other companies all the time without using their developed technology directly. PWRficient was really more of a desktop solution anyway.

Appears to be a Samsung-built custom ARM solution now, so you're right again

D.

 

[andwan0]

Just bought myself Toshiba Libretto 100 off eBay. Going to test it out for MS-DOS and maybe FreeDOS also.... and also Windows 98SE.

I am planning to get myself a netbook also... and in future an Open-Pandora (once they get better at it ironing all the nacks and crookies - since they're still early stages).

 

[moxie]

No, I won't. I know exactly what it is It will do CGA graphics, though, which is enough for some of the oldies. Commander Keen 4, for instance, is reported to run fairly well.

I do have my HP 200lx now. It does indeed run Might and Magic. All is good

 

[trooper]

Just bought myself Toshiba Libretto 100 off eBay. Going to test it out for MS-DOS and maybe FreeDOS also.... and also Windows 98SE.

I am planning to get myself a netbook also... and in future an Open-Pandora (once they get better at it ironing all the nacks and crookies - since they're still early stages).

Still have mine, Currently running Win98SE (+ Dos via "Reboot to Dos menu item") and WinXP on the same partition, Works great.

Btw, Get yourself a low-profile pcmcia two port usb2 card, Works great in windows (Any version) for mouse support, And doesn`t draw as much power as most of the usb2 cards out there, Which always end up freezing/crashing the little Libretto within a few seconds after inserting such a card.

Trooper

 

[andwan0]

Just bought myself Toshiba Libretto 100 off eBay. Going to test it out for MS-DOS and maybe FreeDOS also.... and also Windows 98SE.

I am planning to get myself a netbook also... and in future an Open-Pandora (once they get better at it ironing all the nacks and crookies - since they're still early stages).

Still have mine, Currently running Win98SE (+ Dos via "Reboot to Dos menu item") and WinXP on the same partition, Works great.

Btw, Get yourself a low-profile pcmcia two port usb2 card, Works great in windows (Any version) for mouse support, And doesn`t draw as much power as most of the usb2 cards out there, Which always end up freezing/crashing the little Libretto within a few seconds after inserting such a card.

Trooper

Thanks for the advice. Yeah, am wondering where my Libretto is... I won it in an eBay auction 1-2 weeks ago. Fingers crossed it hasn't got lost in the post.

I'll be mainly playing old skool 2D platformers like Alien Carnage and Duke Nukem series and many Bullfrog games aswell as 1992 Alone in the Dark series... and Bioforge, etc. Plenty of abandonware MS-DOS games as well as the shareware/PD (public domain) games. (so don't really need a mouse).

Might also try FreeDOS natively to check out the multi-tasking environment... and boot Windows 3.11 & MAYBE Windows 98SE. Also love to play oldskool coder demos (The Party, Assembly, Gathering, etc.).

Plus, if I wanted internet... I can boot off a linux live CD or have a linux partition.... even though there are web browsers for MS-DOS and FreeDOS themselves.

 

[cbox]

I've been looking for a more modern handheld computer compared to my ancient pentium one, and have been looking at the Fujitsu lifebook u820, anyone have any opinions on it?

http://www.notebook-driver.com/laptops-information/fujitsu-lifebook-u820-mini-notebook-specifications/

 

[trooper]

I've been looking for a more modern handheld computer compared to my ancient pentium one, and have been looking at the Fujitsu lifebook u820, anyone have any opinions on it?

http://www.notebook-driver.com/laptops-information/fujitsu-lifebook-u820-mini-notebook-specifications/

I`ve had his older brother for about a year now, The Lifebook U810. While it is a great "little" mobile pc, You do realise just how small the screen really is ?, Especially at full resolution (1024x600). I do have good eyesight, But things can sometimes be difficult to see (especially text) on a 5.6 inch screen. It does look as though Fujitsu have made quite a few improvements to the U820, Dedicated cursor (arrow) keys, Instead of having to hold the FN key to do most of the simple things via keyboard, Such as, Scrolling a webpage or document via keyboard grrrr.

Built-in HSDPA, Instead of having to carry a 3G dongle, Larger HDD options, And a faster? processor etc.

I paid £500 for mine (Brand new), I don`t use it as much as i would like (EeePC 901 gets much more use), Mainly because of the screen and keyboard issues as mentioned.

If you can get it for a very good price, I would highly recommend it. I would have held off and gone for the U820 if i had known back then, What i know about the U810 now.

Btw, If you plan to use pure DOS on the U820 (Applies to the U810 and most modern pc`s with High Definition sound) You will have no sound whatsoever in anything you run in pure DOS. Just a heads up.

Trooper