Please... just refund me.

[GreenDream]

I ordered a Pandora way back in 2009. I waited for 3 years and got no Pandora. I was diligent and waited, and I simply ran out of patience. Late last year I requested a refund, and it essentially got denied/indiscriminately postponed in the email because of some ICP2 situation, which I was okay with. So I waited but heard nothing back. I've intermittently emailed about this but I've been entirely ignored. You've had my money for four years and I've gotten nothing back. I was so excited for my Pandora in the past and I still wish I could have one but I've waited far too long. If you can't refund me, at least give me the Pandora I've paid for, please.

 

[Binky]

You're more likely to get a pandora than a refund. Briefly put, the situation is this:

• You ordered from Craig Rothwell (=Craigix, runs gbax.com), based in England
• He has broken contact with this community, and may have lost the payment he received for pandora pre-orders (through bad luck, mismanagement, whatever).
• Pandora production is currently managed by Michael Mrozek (=EvilDragon, runs Dragonbox.de) in Germany as a seperate legal entity
  
• EvilDragon has delivered all of his pre-orders and is now selling pandoras from stock at a new, higher price.
• EvilDragon is using donations and profits from new sales to send free pandoras to Craig's customers.
• Since E.D. never received any kind of payment from Craig's customers this is a slow and unsustainable process.
• In addition to this, ED is also offering a huge discount (essentially his entire profit margin) to any of Craig's customers who reorder from dragonbox.

Your options now are:

• Wait -  maybe get a pandora from ED, probably get nothing from Craig
• Fork out another few hundred euros - get a pandora (with slightly upgraded specs) to play with

Unfortunately, I don't think anyone is handing out refunds, since noone has the money to do so

You could try buying a discounted pandora from dragonbox, and selling it on ebay for the full price

The last option - begin legal proceedings against Craig - is almost certain to lose money for both parties, and has been disregarded by most people here.

 

[GreenDream]

You're more likely to get a pandora than a refund. Briefly put, the situation is this:

• You ordered from Craig Rothwell (=Craigix, runs gbax.com), based in England
• He has broken contact with this community, and may have lost the payment he received for pandora pre-orders (through bad luck, mismanagement, whatever).
• Pandora production is currently managed by Michael Mrozek (=EvilDragon, runs Dragonbox.de) in Germany as a seperate legal entity
  
• EvilDragon has delivered all of his pre-orders and is now selling pandoras from stock at a new, higher price.
• EvilDragon is using donations and profits from new sales to send free pandoras to Craig's customers.
• Since E.D. never received any kind of payment from Craig's customers this is a slow and unsustainable process.
• In addition to this, ED is also offering a huge discount (essentially his entire profit margin) to any of Craig's customers who reorder from dragonbox.

Your options now are:

• Wait -  maybe get a pandora from ED, probably get nothing from Craig
• Fork out another few hundred euros - get a pandora (with slightly upgraded specs) to play with

Unfortunately, I don't think anyone is handing out refunds, since noone has the money to do so

You could try buying a discounted pandora from dragonbox, and selling it on ebay for the full price

The last option - begin legal proceedings against Craig - is almost certain to lose money for both parties, and has been disregarded by most people here.

I really appreciate the response.


But I don't appreciate how Craig has molested community trust. At this point in time, it is theft. My money's been taken and there's no way I'd be willing to pay a couple hundred Euros to get what I've already paid for, you know? Not only is the South African Rand weak to the Euro, but I'll maintain the principle that I've paid for a good and should receive it.

This is insane from my standpoint. Craig's business practice is faulty and underhanded, mismanaged and unprofessional. I'm stuck here, and my money is gone. 


Sorry, Binky, that it seems I'm upset at you. At the very least, you've shown to me that this community is bright and deserving. Thanks for the help.

 

[comradekingu]

Take your case to a small claims court in england. Best of luck. We have no input or say in what craigx does. You might be able to do a class action suit if you rally up with some of the others in your situation.

 

[mcobit]

Well, as OpenPandora ltd. has no money, he will simply declare bancrupcy then and nobody will get anything. Also he will be out of his liability then. Basically we will have the same situation as now. Only way to get a Pandora will be by upgrading with ED or wait for a really long time.

 

[Linux-SWAT]

Indeed.

Although we all know that the idea of adding money is horrible, it's balanced by the fact that you'll have an incredible piece of hardware, followed by no less incredible software.

 

[DaMummy]

I miss the Red Baron

 

[Wrath Of Khan]

HMmmmmmmmm

 

[Wrath Of Khan]

It looks like curtains for craig as far as the open source scene goes. Without credibility he's not gonna get any support. Pity really, but the shit had to hit the fan sometime.

 

[levi]

I bit my tongue when the iCP2 campaign came around.  Really, I had no proof of anything more than extremely bad luck at the time.  Different now of course.

 

[WizardStan]

Well, as OpenPandora ltd. has no money, he will simply declare bancrupcy then and nobody will get anything.

It would force the company into liquidation, consultants would be assigned, assets would be counted, and debts would be repaid. There is a very slim chance that after all major debts are repaid there'd be some left over for preorders. That may be the only way anyone is going to get anything from Craig at this point. I really want to be wrong, though.

 

[ekianjo]

mcobit, on 02 Sept 2013 - 06:21 AM, said: Well, as OpenPandora ltd. has no money, he will simply declare bancrupcy then and nobody will get anything. It would force the company into liquidation, consultants would be assigned, assets would be counted, and debts would be repaid.

This is correct. It;s not because he has no cash left there are no valuable assets. Assets were clearly specified in the 2012 exercise.  

 

[ekianjo]

Without credibility he's not gonna get any support.

He doesnt care. He got the money he wanted and apparently spent it if we are to believe the ICP2 update. 

 

[skeezix]

It looks like curtains for craig as far as the open source scene goes. Without credibility he's not gonna get any support. Pity really, but the shit had to hit the fan sometime.

I doubt it; its not like he cna't just make another product with another name (not 'craigix'); even using 'craigix' and 'have made previous successufl devices' on a page, 90% of people will never check 'references' and get swindled again.

No, I imagine he'll be back; he's a creative fellow and never gives up (to his credit), so let us hope his next endeavers are..

i) nowhere near any of us

ii) he delivers and doesn't screw anyone in the future

We can hope, right?

jeff

 

[kasp]

What ever happened to all those refunds Craig supposedly gave? Still yet to find a single person who received one.

As for Craig delivering and not screwing anyone over that isn't possible.  It just isn't in his dna.

 

[ShleeDragon]

This is a classic kind of thread. We're very sorry you've been angered by the original preorder being taken away on you.

Id highly recommend you mentally separate the money you've paid and the present... It's healthier to accept the preorder is cancelled and consider your options than stay in limbo.

Right now, you can order a new working 1Ghz pandora from ED with a discount or you can walk away.

 

[Exophase]

What ever happened to all those refunds Craig supposedly gave? Still yet to find a single person who received one.

As for Craig delivering and not screwing anyone over that isn't possible.  It just isn't in his dna.

People who receive refunds for some product don't tend to then hang around the web site for it.

 

[ekianjo]

i) nowhere near any of us ii) he delivers and doesn't screw anyone in the future   We can hope, right?

Don't hold your breath for ii), but we can certainly hope for i). 

People who receive refunds for some product don't tend to then hang around the web site for it.

Possibly, but you have to admit it's strange we have NEVER heard of it at least once. Do they actually exist? It's a UFO kind of question.  

 

[kasp]

What ever happened to all those refunds Craig supposedly gave? Still yet to find a single person who received one.


As for Craig delivering and not screwing anyone over that isn't possible.  It just isn't in his dna.

People who receive refunds for some product don't tend to then hang around the web site for it.

I understand that but you would think there would be at least one.

 

[mcobit]

It would still be interesting to know, how many refunds Craig actually payed. Seeing, that the preorder/refund line of his is over 500 people and ED suspected it to be 150 by his calculation based on known facts, Craig seems to have taken a lot more preorders than was officially known. Or even known by ED. Or just didn't refund a lot of people and just used that as an excuse to explain where all the money went to.