Planet Computers : Gemini - Psion Returns

[rygD]

Factory production of shipping Gemini handhelds is scheduled to start today. Funding is over 1.6 Million USD. They intend to ship their first units prior to the Chinese new year.

Any clue when you will get yours? I have questions about keyboard feel and typing experience.

 

[Swordfish II]

For some reason I really want one but it wont fill any niche for me:

As a phone you can view or respond to texts with one hand or moving, you cant see who is calling or texting with the screen closed.

As a computer, it primarily boots android so closed source, pay or ad reiddled software. Sure you can boot into debian, but it is likely a chroot, or not the default. The lack of nubs or optical mouse will make it a pain to us debian anyway.

The Pyra will have the same issues as a phone, but I intend to use it as a computer, right now I am typing this on the last 4G LTE phone with a slider keyboard (at least that works on tmobile). As a computer the pyra has open source software, tons of it, and a great porting community, it also wont have the mouse issue.

....but for some reason I still want the Gemini.

 

[Grench]

Any clue when you will get yours? I have questions about keyboard feel and typing experience.

No clue. I didn't join until fairly late in the process - after they showed working prototypes but before they cracked $800K in sales. So, I'm probably in the 2000-3000 range for order number on the Gemini. I have my fingers crossed for 'sometime in February'.
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For some reason I really want one but it wont fill any niche for me:

You might be surprised once you give it a thorough consideration.

As a phone you can view or respond to texts with one hand or moving, you cant see who is calling or texting with the screen closed.

I'm pretty sure I can flip that open to view the screen one handed. We'll see. As to 'while moving', don't text and drive.

With the screen closed, there is a a row of LED lights on the back and an application to create multi-LED conditional displays. You should be able to set those to something like:
If someone texts me make the first LED flash green.
If someone texts me and they are in my contacts folder, make the first LED flash green and the second flash green.
If someone texts me and they are in my family list, make the first LED flash green and the second flash blue.
If someone texts me and they are in my work list, make the first LED flash green and the second flash red.
etc... Same type of thing for calls. I think there are 4? LEDs. We had long discussions about doing the same type of notification methods with the Pyra's lid LEDs.

As a computer, it primarily boots android so closed source, pay or ad reiddled software. Sure you can boot into debian, but it is likely a chroot, or not the default. The lack of nubs or optical mouse will make it a pain to us debian anyway.

From what I've seen of the process to boot Debian (turn it off then turn it on while holding a button) it acts like a phone being booted from a microSD card. I.e. if you've ever loaded ROMs from microSD on an Android device, you've likely had to boot from the microSD. So, it is my theory that the Debian boot actually happens from a pre-formatted microSD card. You'll download a bootable image and write it to a microSDXC card. Advanced users could then hypothetically then wipe the Android from the 64GB eMMC and install Debian on it. Personally I plan to keep Android on the eMMC and run Debian from a partition on a high capacity card in the microSDXC slot. I like that solution.

The 'OMG there is no mouse!' concern for the desktop Debian OS actually has a pretty easy fix. The device has a touchscreen.
That leads to 'OMG there is no way to be accurate enough on a touchscreen to use a desktop OS!'. A touchscreen is essentially a touchpad layer that happens to overlay a screen. At some point I hope that we're able to use 'relative positioning' instead of 'absolute positioning' under Debian so that the touchscreen acts like a touchpad - allowing the mouse to be navigated like the touchpad on a laptop - a touchpad that just happens to overlay a screen.

The Pyra will have the same issues as a phone, but I intend to use it as a computer, right now I am typing this on the last 4G LTE phone with a slider keyboard (at least that works on tmobile). As a computer the pyra has open source software, tons of it, and a great porting community, it also wont have the mouse issue.

Pyra will actually have -more- issues as a phone. The Gemini is about twice as thick as a 6" screen smartphone. It is designed with dual speakers and dual microphones in the lid. You hold it -closed- to the side of your head (either way up is fine) and talk. There is an 'answer button' on one end.

By comparison, using the Pyra as a phone... It is nearly 4x as thick as a 6" screen smartphone and isn't really designed to take calls directly. I'll probably reserve to doing that only with bluetooth devices.

....but for some reason I still want the Gemini.

I have both on order. They'll both get used. I'm counting on the Gemini being my phone replacement. The Pyra will be very much a mobile data storage monster. I should find a 15cm or so microUSB 3.0 to USB C cable to connect the two. Hmmm...

 

[levi]

I could never flip my Series 5MX open with one hand, unless I've also got it resting on a desk, and even then it's a bit of a struggle. Mind you, that's got a more complex hinge, whereby the internal hinge between the keyboard and screen slides towards you as it opens, so the bit carrying the mainboard and the batteries slides back to provide a sturdy base for prodding the screen with the stylus.

I'm not sure this is really designed for desktop use though. I see no rubber feet like the S5 had, and I think both sides of it are actually slightly curved, meaning it'll slide around on a desk. But I tended to use my S5 mainly in my hands, so that's no massive loss for me at least.

 

[Grench]

I could never flip my Series 5MX open with one hand, unless I've also got it resting on a desk, and even then it's a bit of a struggle. Mind you, that's got a more complex hinge, whereby the internal hinge between the keyboard and screen slides towards you as it opens, so the bit carrying the mainboard and the batteries slides back to provide a sturdy base for prodding the screen with the stylus.

This isn't quite 'just a clam shell', but it is close. I'll have to test my 'one hand open' theory once I get it. Which will be a while. I checked - I'm in the 2300s range. So, March? Don't know.

I'm not sure this is really designed for desktop use though. I see no rubber feet like the S5 had, and I think both sides of it are actually slightly curved, meaning it'll slide around on a desk. But I tended to use my S5 mainly in my hands, so that's no massive loss for me at least.

You might want to check the design on the Gemini then. It actually has an additional bit of material (metal?) that creates a rear kickstand when it opens. Supposedly that adds desktop stability for typing. It's a rather ingenious bit of case design.

 

[levi]

Ah yes, I forgot about the stand. That does rather change things.

 

[Grench]

How I see the Gemini:
An Android clam shell phone with good specs and a hopefully workable mini-keyboard that might be fun to occasionally boot to Linux on. Primary uses - messaging, email, voice phone, web. Hidden gem - with the stereo speakers it should be OK for movies.

How I see the Pyra:
A Linux clam shell computer with adequate specs and awesome game controls and insane storage capabilities (for a pocketable handheld). Primary uses - gaming, web, SSH console, email. Hidden gem - with dual full sized SDXC slots and mobile networking this winds up being a must-have for photojournalists.

 

[Swordfish II]

No clue. I didn't join until fairly late in the process - after they showed working prototypes but before they cracked $800K in sales. So, I'm probably in the 2000-3000 range for order number on the Gemini. I have my fingers crossed for 'sometime in February'.
[doublepost=1517327359,1517325967][/doublepost]
You might be surprised once you give it a thorough consideration.


I'm pretty sure I can flip that open to view the screen one handed. We'll see. As to 'while moving', don't text and drive.

With the screen closed, there is a a row of LED lights on the back and an application to create multi-LED conditional displays. You should be able to set those to something like:
If someone texts me make the first LED flash green.
If someone texts me and they are in my contacts folder, make the first LED flash green and the second flash green.
If someone texts me and they are in my family list, make the first LED flash green and the second flash blue.
If someone texts me and they are in my work list, make the first LED flash green and the second flash red.
etc... Same type of thing for calls. I think there are 4? LEDs. We had long discussions about doing the same type of notification methods with the Pyra's lid LEDs.


From what I've seen of the process to boot Debian (turn it off then turn it on while holding a button) it acts like a phone being booted from a microSD card. I.e. if you've ever loaded ROMs from microSD on an Android device, you've likely had to boot from the microSD. So, it is my theory that the Debian boot actually happens from a pre-formatted microSD card. You'll download a bootable image and write it to a microSDXC card. Advanced users could then hypothetically then wipe the Android from the 64GB eMMC and install Debian on it. Personally I plan to keep Android on the eMMC and run Debian from a partition on a high capacity card in the microSDXC slot. I like that solution.

The 'OMG there is no mouse!' concern for the desktop Debian OS actually has a pretty easy fix. The device has a touchscreen.
That leads to 'OMG there is no way to be accurate enough on a touchscreen to use a desktop OS!'. A touchscreen is essentially a touchpad layer that happens to overlay a screen. At some point I hope that we're able to use 'relative positioning' instead of 'absolute positioning' under Debian so that the touchscreen acts like a touchpad - allowing the mouse to be navigated like the touchpad on a laptop - a touchpad that just happens to overlay a screen.


Pyra will actually have -more- issues as a phone. The Gemini is about twice as thick as a 6" screen smartphone. It is designed with dual speakers and dual microphones in the lid. You hold it -closed- to the side of your head (either way up is fine) and talk. There is an 'answer button' on one end.

By comparison, using the Pyra as a phone... It is nearly 4x as thick as a 6" screen smartphone and isn't really designed to take calls directly. I'll probably reserve to doing that only with bluetooth devices.


I have both on order. They'll both get used. I'm counting on the Gemini being my phone replacement. The Pyra will be very much a mobile data storage monster. I should find a 15cm or so microUSB 3.0 to USB C cable to connect the two. Hmmm...

Between the two no doubt gemini will be the better phone...but i have a phone with a keyboard, so I'm good there.

As a computer, the pyra fits my needs better and has nubs.

All I'm saying is i have no use case for the gemini, but i still want one

 

[rygD]

I am in the same boat. I do don't really need a smartphone for calls, so Pyra will probably be fine. And I want a Gemini.

 

[Grench]

Smartphone, Pyra, Gemini.

If you consider their functionality as a set of overlapping circles..
Smartphone and Pyra overlap about 20%.
Pyra and Gemini overlap about 50%.
Smartphone's circle is almost completely encompassed in the Gemini circle.

I.e. I don't have a smartphone use case that the Gemini doesn't cover. I qualify 'almost' above to account for physical size.

I plan to use the Gemini primarily as an Android smartphone that happens to have an OK keyboard. It should excel at that. Some day when Android no longer gets updates on it, I'll flip it to being a Linux-only thing.

I'm skeptical around how well Mediatek will support Linux on the Gemini (if much at all). Heck, if Mediatek does support Linux on the Gemini well, maybe that redeems them a bit in the Linux community. Who knows? Maybe the next Pyra SoC will wind up being a Mediatek.

 

[ptitSeb]

I'm too lazy to read everything, but I'm curious: is the keyboard removable on the Gemini? How do you use the Gemini as a "normal phone" (that is held as a portrait device to to hear and speak at the same time), or maybe the Speaker and Mic are on the non-screen side?

 

[ible]

you can talk through the case and answer calls without opening it...

 

[ptitSeb]

you can talk through the case and answer calls without opening it...

but you need to open to see who is calling?

Also, how do you initiate a phone call with one hand while walking?

 

[rygD]

I assume distinctive ringtones and color patterns can help identify who is calling. Is there something to announce the caller on Android? I think you can speak and tell it who to call after pushing a button (not sure if physical or soft though).

 

[NetBLOKS]

Plantronic or Jabra headsets read the caller to you.
I'm using a Plantronics Voyager legend and it works very well and without help from the cloud
The button you mentioned is for google assistent and is a hardware button outside.

 

[levi]

A Liliputing video from CES that I don't think's been posted here yet:


That shows that it's not really very easy at all to open it one handed, but it gives a reasonable idea of how usable it'll be, especially on the Android side.

 

[Grench]

A Liliputing video from CES that I don't think's been posted here yet:

That shows that it's not really very easy at all to open it one handed, but it gives a reasonable idea of how usable it'll be, especially on the Android side.

Just FYI for anyone curious - that video has a crazy number of inaccuracies.

Opening the screen left handed while filming right handed and rattling on and on - not surprised he wasn't able to open it one handed with his off-hand while filming.
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I'm too lazy to read everything, but I'm curious: is the keyboard removable on the Gemini? How do you use the Gemini as a "normal phone" (that is held as a portrait device to to hear and speak at the same time), or maybe the Speaker and Mic are on the non-screen side?

Keyboard is not removable. Keyboard and battery in the base. Processor and display in the lid.

To use it as a phone, you hold it (closed) to your head just like any other phone. It has stereo speakers and microphones. It can be held with either end up and will switch automatically which speaker/mic it is using for the call. Speakers and mics are on the edges.

but you need to open to see who is calling?

Also, how do you initiate a phone call with one hand while walking?

There are 5 RGB LEDs on the lid with a programming interface that allows you to have them illuminate to tell you who is calling, messaging, other. You select your own patterns.

To initiate a call while walking, Google assistant button. Or, flip it open and push a button.

My theory on one-handed opening is to grab it by the screen/lid and flick the heavy battery/keyboard side out. Every video is showing them treating prototypes with kid gloves. Not surprising considering there are only what was at CES in existence at that point.

I assume distinctive ringtones and color patterns can help identify who is calling. Is there something to announce the caller on Android? I think you can speak and tell it who to call after pushing a button (not sure if physical or soft though).

Yes, you can have your Android phone announce who's calling. It's insanely annoying and nobody does it. The RGB LEDs on the back will be far more useful.

 

[rygD]

It is annoying, just throwing it out there as an alternative to looking at the screen.

 

[Grench]

Planet Computers updated again. Mass production has been done - pictures of units going through the assembly line. No idea how many will ship in their first batch.

 

[Ian J]

Planet Computers updated again. Mass production has been done - pictures of units going through the assembly line. No idea how many will ship in their first batch.

Didn't look the cleanest of environments, people with hair dangling over the device, no gloves etc.

But maybe the part being constructed isn't so dust sensitive.