Phablet/palmtop detachable?

[mrpalmtop]

Putting big lumpy stuff like SD card readers, radio controllers/antennas, batteries, etc in the lid  would make a clamshell device unwieldy and uncomfortable to hold.

 
It wouldn't be thick at all. Just imagine a smartphone with a big screen that can dock in a keyboard. There are tons of phablets that have those features and are super thin.

Smartphones lack important features (decent sized battery, fullSD slots, fullUSB host) - but I'm not talking about thickness - I'm talking about weight.


As an example of what would happen if everything were in the lid, take a pandora, and (carefully!) hold it upside-down by the lid.


It feels all wrong.

Upcoming USB specification will make it so that a small, microUSB-sized plug will be capable of being a host.

And I see no real need for full-sized SD slots. MicroSD is the way to go. I have a convertible tablet/laptop and it's quite stable

 

[mrpalmtop]

Hasn't something like this been suggested a few times before? I'm sure there are more examples of suggesting the tablet route. It's not a very novel idea

Thanks for posting those links. They were before my time and I enjoyed reading some of the history.

There does seem to be some difference from what I've proposed in that others seem to have been more thinking of a tablet. I'd rather have a pocketable device with 3 separate attachment options: 1) full gaming controls, 2) full keyboard, 3) combination of the two like on Pyra/Pandora. You'd be able to specify which one you'd want at purchase time. If you don't like switching between different accessories, just get the third one.

I suspect that a lot of people might like the flexibility to switch if they wanted to. Or to just use a smartphone if they really wanted to travel light.

Ultimately, the only reason this hasn't been done is that no one with the talents and dedication of ED has tried to do it.

 

[thatgui]

Ultimately, the only reason this hasn't been done is that no one with the talents and dedication of ED has tried to do it.

+ the money that is needed+ the leap forward in time that is needed, where technology is advanced enough so everything can be cramped in the lid while the lid is still light enough so you don't have to arbitrarily put weight into the attachments to balance things out, thus making the device a lot heavier.

 

[bzar]

mrpalmtop: Yeah, but the common thing is putting most of the stuff in a tablet (which would be a heavy lid in clamshell mode) and having something attach to it to make it something else. That flexibility does not come without a cost.

For one not yet mentioned, it's a moving target for software developers: what methods of input can you assume a user has? With pandora/pyra it's quite simple as the device itself has quite a selection of inputs to use as suitable. If you have the minimal use case of tablet-only, you basically need to design for that, which means virtual keyboards and/or virtual joysticks since the user may not have the suitable attachment with her. But the user may also have a keyboard or a gamepad or both. This makes creating the sort of powerful control schemes that for example PNDManager uses (it uses pretty much every input method on pandora) quite impossible. What we'd probably end up with is what tablets and phones have now: touch-optimized applications with the better input devices as an afterthought.

If there was a magical bag of holding to keep all the attachments with you all the time, it could be more feasible. Even then the weight-imposed ergonomics issue is still unsolved.

In a way the thing you are describing is happening in other spaces such as Jolla with the TOHKBD attachment. The whole phone is pretty much built on the premise that you connect different stuff to it depending on your needs. We'll see how well that goes

 

[mrpalmtop]

mrpalmtop: Yeah, but the common thing is putting most of the stuff in a tablet (which would be a heavy lid in clamshell mode) and having something attach to it to make it something else. That flexibility does not come without a cost.


For one not yet mentioned, it's a moving target for software developers: what methods of input can you assume a user has? With pandora/pyra it's quite simple as the device itself has quite a selection of inputs to use as suitable. If you have the minimal use case of tablet-only, you basically need to design for that, which means virtual keyboards and/or virtual joysticks since the user may not have the suitable attachment with her. But the user may also have a keyboard or a gamepad or both. This makes creating the sort of powerful control schemes that for example PNDManager uses (it uses pretty much every input method on pandora) quite impossible. What we'd probably end up with is what tablets and phones have now: touch-optimized applications with the better input devices as an afterthought.

Desktop Linux has several virtual keyboards that can pop up on button press. And if we had Android or Windows, that stuff is baked directly into the OS to automatically pop up.


But you are right that it would make for some inconsistencies.

If there was a magical bag of holding to keep all the attachments with you all the time, it could be more feasible. Even then the weight-imposed ergonomics issue is still unsolved.

The Samsung Galaxy Note 4 weights 176 g (6.21 oz). A lower half accessory would have no problem weighing more than that, especially if you put in an additional battery in there.

In a way the thing you are describing is happening in other spaces such as Jolla with the TOHKBD attachment. The whole phone is pretty much built on the premise that you connect different stuff to it depending on your needs. We'll see how well that goes

Thanks for mentioning that project. I have been following it somewhat. Glad to see they got way more funding than they originally asked for. Their design is flawed though because it is using a slider mechanism which because of the connection terminal being located on the back of the phone (Jolla's design) means that their keyboard is twice as thick as it would have been if the terminal was on the side as in most laptop/tablet hybrids.

Still, I'm glad they're doing it. Certainly shows it can be done.

 

[bzar]

Desktop Linux has several virtual keyboards that can pop up on button press. And if we had Android or Windows, that stuff is baked directly into the OS to automatically pop up.

But you are right that it would make for some inconsistencies.

It's not a question about virtual keyboard availability. It's about usability. Virtual keyboards and such are a horrible workaround to the absence of the real things. Being able to design specifically to the case where the user has a hardware keyboard and game controls and nothing else makes it a lot easier to design a powerful control scheme. Doing my web based strategy game, Wars, I have too often pulled hairs because implementing a UI that's usable on a touch-only device but isn't frustrating on better-equipped devices is very hard. I feel like it actually needs at least two UIs, which is twice the dev effort. When you design for multiple possible input combinations, you usually end up designing for the lowest common denominator or for all of them separately. Neither is good. It's a LOT better that the inputs a user has are a predictable set.

The Samsung Galaxy Note 4 weights 176 g (6.21 oz). A lower half accessory would have no problem weighing more than that, especially if you put in an additional battery in there.

So assuming something like 1.5x weight to make it anywhere close to pandora's weight distribution we get... 264g per accessory? Holding 440g to your face instead of a 320g device like pandora is quite a task. Even pandora tires my hands at times so i have to rest my wrists against my thighs every now and then. Also keeping two accessories and the device with you is over 700g. That's quite a bit to lug around.

Thanks for mentioning that project. I have been following it somewhat. Glad to see they got way more funding than they originally asked for. Their design is flawed though because it is using a slider mechanism which because of the connection terminal being located on the back of the phone (Jolla's design) means that their keyboard is twice as thick as it would have been if the terminal was on the side as in most laptop/tablet hybrids.

Still, I'm glad they're doing it. Certainly shows it can be done.

There's a good structural reason for that. Think of the lever force applied to the side connector by the phone's weight, inertia and other factors. Moving that force to a large area (the back plate) and not putting any of it on the connectors is a great idea.

 

[Mr_Loon]

Given how laptops that are also tablets are all the rage now in the PC industry, it's kind of shocking to me that no one has tried to do this with a phablet and a keyboard accessory. I think that'd be a great "next" project for ED. Imagine the docks you could have:

• Full keyboard with battery for extended writing sessions
• Full gaming controls with minimal keys
• Protective sleeve with extra battery
• Docking station

Am I wrong to think a device of this nature could have wide appeal? If you put rooted Android or vanilla Debian, this device could have a lot of potential at least imo.

Have a read through this thread, note that the proposed concept evolved to this.


Sad to say I never really got any response from those in the know as to what the actual cost / size implications were from having the CPU PCB in the lid & connecting with pogo pins rather than having the CPU in the base.

 

[Natsu]

I'll throw you a bone by saying, you could stream to the lid and still have most of the components in the base.

 

[bzar]

So the swappable base parts would house the SoC and all? You'd have N pyras and one screen? I must have I misunderstood something.

 

[Klumpen]

I hate clamshells and want a Pyra with the gaming controls left and right from the screen and the built in keyboard to slide from underneath it.

Nobody will make it for me.

 

[bzar]

Order a pyra, commission someone to design and make (cnc or 3d printed) a case like that for pyra components and the few extra PCB's you'll need, assemble and be happy

Might cost a bit though

 

[pmprog]

I hate clamshells and want a Pyra with the gaming controls left and right from the screen and the built in keyboard to slide from underneath it.

Nobody will make it for me.

If you make it, I'll take one Just make sure it has 6 buttons on the right hand side

 

[Klumpen]

I hate clamshells and want a Pyra with the gaming controls left and right from the screen and the built in keyboard to slide from underneath it.


Nobody will make it for me.

If you make it, I'll take one Just make sure it has 6 buttons on the right hand side

Of course and they'll be arranged in two rows.

How else would I be able to properly play N64

or Street Fighter, X-Men, Marvel Superheroes, Darkstalkers, etc... on it?