Pandora's Emulators - What Will Work And What Won't

[ldesnogu]

A 600MHz PIII isn't going to outperform the Cortex-A8 we're going to have by all that much (If at all- depends on the code, actually...)- his comparison, while not as good as it could be, indicates that it's worth considering doing a version of VisualBoy Advance on the Pandora.

While I agree VBA could be used with some tweakings (like use everything but the ARM core ), I think a 600 MHz PIII is faster than a 600 MHz C-A8. C-A8 is in-order while the PIII is out of order.

 

[javaJake]

No! No! No! *stomps feet* Don't you dare have another how-things-compare fight, or else I'll tell on you!

 

[Tinnus]

I still think it's easier to work on gpSP compatibility by reporting non-working games and bugs than trying to optimize the hell out of something else (which, by the way, will most likely decrease its compatibility significantly).

 

[Squidge]

Does VBA even have an ARM ASM core? I thought it was all written in C and X86 asm.

 

[Patrick R Ludvigsen]

Actually it's a Celeron processor (laptop). Thanks for clearing this up thoguh, and sorry about starting a comparison fight.

 

[ldesnogu]

Does VBA even have an ARM ASM core? I thought it was all written in C and X86 asm.

That's why I said that if someone was to use it, the first thing to do would be to rewrite the CPU emulator

Anyway I am sure Exophase emulator is in a much better position.

 

[Exophase]

There IS a VisualBoy Advance port for Maemo- but it runs slow. While the person doing the port for Maemo is claiming optimizations for Maemo, I suspect the code's not as tuned as they'd like
to think it was, coupled with the fact that the N800's got a slower CPU, clock speed comparisons not withstanding, for the claimed 10fps on the package info. I'm of the opinion of, "Let's wait and
see" leaning towards, the "Uh, it's there but it's not what you really want" side of things.

VBA was not written in a very performance conscious manner and it'd take complete rewrites of the CPU and (especially) the video rendering portions for it to even come close to matching gpSP's performance (and gpSP will continue to be optimized by the original author, whereas the original author of VBA is long gone). Starting with VBA and trying to optimize it for a platform like N800 is a dead end, and you should tell this person that they should be porting gpSP instead. If you want to know the futility of trying to get great speed out of VBA talk to Zx-81. Very few emulator ports (if any) have ever seen 6x performance improvements by being casually optimized by the person porting. If the person was hardcore enough to do that they'd probably have just written their own emulator because it's really hard to mash a totally different framework into an existing emulator (although I suppose some parts could be reused), and if they're capable they'd know that VBA was going to be slow from the start. You can tell just by looking at the code.

It might be possible for VBA to work okay on Cortex-A8 at 600MHz, although probably not for every game. But the question is, would you really want to spend much more CPU time and battery life than you need to?

Rather than argue about whether or not VBA will work, why not instead talk about why you want VBA over gpSP in the first place, in concrete terms (not just "compatibility" without siting examples)

 

[Prophet]

gpSP is THE high performance GBA emulator, and it makes the most sense for Pandora.

I don't really understand the desire to stuff VBA into the Pandora - it's not really designed for such a device. We have gpSP ready and waiting, and it's extremely compatible. So what's all the fuss?!

Exophase - IMO the real question isn't whether to use gpSP or VBA, but rather what gpSP might be able to do with Pandora's extra horsepower. A few games chugged even on PSP at 333mhz (i.e. Golden Sun) - I wonder if they'll run significantly better on Pandora?

Beyond that, maybe some 2xSAI modes would be nice to render a smooth image without so much blurriness when stretched full screen. And if at all possible, online multiplayer would pretty amazing (that goes for any emulator).

 

[ldesnogu]

I think NEON could be very useful for the video emulation on gpSP.

 

[Svartalf]

While I agree VBA could be used with some tweakings (like use everything but the ARM core ), I think a 600 MHz PIII is faster than a 600 MHz C-A8. C-A8 is in-order while the PIII is out of order.

This would depend on the instruction mix. Anything that would benefit in-order will be a push. Anything that would benefit out-of-order would be better on the PIII. Boils down to how much register space you're needing for the emu, how much L2 we burn doing it, etc. In the end, it's not a foregone conclusion like some made it out to be. However, like all the others here Exophase's emu is very likely to be in a better position since it's already in the right code space with all the right tweaks. I suspect that it'd go over nicely to the Nokia, all things considered.

Rather than argue about whether or not VBA will work, why not instead talk about why you want VBA over gpSP in the first place, in concrete terms (not just "compatibility" without siting examples)

Heh... It was more a purely intellectual exercise on my part. Emulation's going to be nice to have- but it's not my desired use for a Pandora. Mine's going to be to see just what native commercial and open source titles I can make happen on Linux on this beast so I can have my cake and eat it too. That...and to maybe, just maybe, wipe a few smug looks off faces at the next GDC. >

 

[samuraicrow]

What about UAE4All or EUAE? It should be able to emulate an Amiga 1200 just fine at 600 MHz with a GPU.

 

[ldesnogu]

What about UAE4All or EUAE? It should be able to emulate an Amiga 1200 just fine at 600 MHz with a GPU.

Amiga is in the list

 

[zohnnyg]

hi i couldnt find the thread that showed possible emulation for pandora. i wanted to ask where might DAPHNE and a phillips cd-i emulators be on the list? are they 16-bit? i hope there will be a port of DAPHNE and a new phillips cd-i emulator on pandora.

 

[Prophet]

hi i couldnt find the thread that showed possible emulation for pandora.

?

This is that thread. See the first post for the list.

i wanted to ask where might DAPHNE and a phillips cd-i emulators be on the list? are they 16-bit? i hope there will be a port of DAPHNE and a new phillips cd-i emulator on pandora.

The old laserdic games which Daphne supports used 16bit CPU's (i.e. 8086 & 68000) so they would be considered part of the "various 16bit arcade games" mentioned in the list. These games would probably be within Pandora's capabilities - but remember - there's no guarantee someone will actually do it. We can only hope.

CDI was 68070 based, which after doing some quick research, was apparently a dumbed-down 68000 variant (and was NOT part of the 680x0 series from Motorola). In any case the CDI goes into the 16bit list. I'll add it there. But once again, there's no guarantee anyone would emulate it on Pandora, but I'd speculate that it's possible from a technical standpoint.

 

[Patrick R Ludvigsen]

hi i couldnt find the thread that showed possible emulation for pandora.

?

This is that thread. See the first post for the list.

i wanted to ask where might DAPHNE and a phillips cd-i emulators be on the list? are they 16-bit? i hope there will be a port of DAPHNE and a new phillips cd-i emulator on pandora.

The old laserdic games which Daphne supports used 16bit CPU's (i.e. 8086 & 68000) so they would be considered part of the "various 16bit arcade games" mentioned in the list. These games would probably be within Pandora's capabilities - but remember - there's no guarantee someone will actually do it. We can only hope.

CDI was 68070 based, which after doing some quick research, was apparently a dumbed-down 68000 variant (and was NOT part of the 680x0 series from Motorola). In any case the CDI goes into the 16bit list. I'll add it there. But once again, there's no guarantee anyone would emulate it on Pandora, but I'd speculate that it's possible from a technical standpoint.


Considering that there isn't a freeware or open-source CDI emulator for PC that emulates more than one game, I doubt that one will come out for Pandora. But we can always hope >_>

 

[jaycee900]

Considering that there isn't a freeware or open-source CDI emulator for PC that emulates more than one game, I doubt that one will come out for Pandora. But we can always hope >_>

I personally think its more of a blessing in disguise!

 

[Zoppe]

i wonder if the dreamcast could be emulated. im not asking for sonic adventure 2 or shenmue 2, im asking for capcom vs snk 2, marvel vs capcom 2, guilty gear x, etc. is it possible?

(dont flame me plz)

 

[icurafu]

There is a thread about this exact topic. Have a search.

 

[gruso]

In fact, just read the first post. The big letters. In bold.

*sigh*

 

[gaterooze]

i wonder if the dreamcast could be emulated. im not asking for sonic adventure 2 or shenmue 2, im asking for capcom vs snk 2, marvel vs capcom 2, guilty gear x, etc. is it possible?

Some of those games, or ones very similar, should be playable through MAME/FBA or PSX4ALL.