Pandora - Obsolete?

[SNESFAN]

@jb0yx
The problem with Android is that it's not really optimized for games. That vid of Quake 3 running on Odroid I saw a while ago was a real downer. They don't even use dynamic lighting from what I've seen.

The version of android the Odroid was running was an very immature version, 1.5 if you keep up with it, 2.0/2.1 was when they really started touching the hardware video acceleration, and it will get better over time, I'm sure of it.

Respect to hardkernel but they haven't completely tapped into what the Odroid's hardware is fully capable of yet either, even with their beta 2.1 release, somethings don't run as nice graphically as they did in 1.5, so lots of work to be done there. I can see the disappointment in not being able to run everything quite as well as a minimal linux environment, but that's the give and take if you want to use their app catalog I guess. I'm just saying give people the option from an official route so they can make that decision

 

[hobbyman II]

but I see it being very stale in comparison (variety outside of emulators) to either apple app store liabrary or android market. I would even go as far as to say the success won't even be as high as the webOS app catalog. (they have roughly 2,200 http://www.precentra...y/app-catalog/)

you gotta be kidding, Pandora will have FAR more than a mere 2200 in under 12 months :angry:

The version of android the Odroid was running was an very immature version, 1.5 if you keep up with it, 2.0/2.1 was when they really started touching the hardware video acceleration, and it will get better over time, I'm sure of it.

Respect to hardkernel but they haven't completely tapped into what the Odroid's hardware is fully capable of yet either, even with their beta 2.1 release, somethings don't run as nice graphically as they did in 1.5, so lots of work to be done there.

so we should all dash off and install android cos the latest revision for the Odroid kernel is WORSE for media usage (be it games or applications) than the older 1.5 version (which was rubbish) , your point being?

what is this?, "support your local android" group therapy or something?, if the Pandora has under 2200 unique apps after the first few months then it's failed , think about it, 4000 Pandoras, most of them ordered by developers (either known or closet like me), assume only 2/3rds write only 1 application in the first year, that's over 2600 unique applications (not ports, but stuff aimed specifically at Pandora), I aim to be releasing about 5 in the first year, then add on all the applications that run on Amiga/Atari/DOS emulators, then add all the console emulators and the games they run, then add all the eight bit computers and their games and applications, at a guess that's heading for quarter of a million titles, and it isn't released yet :rolleyes: .

the Pandora will own in the application sector, we may not have the marketing of Apple or the cash behind Android, but we have a damn good community, hell!, we already have some applications written for Pandora and it isn't even released yet, I have six waiting, two ready to go after testing and gfx finalising (IE remove boxes and insert characters, add sound, sort controls etc )

anybody talking about obsolete doesn't have even a very small, diminutive, subatomic, spatially challenged, clue, the Pandora isn't started yet, wait and see what happens before passing judgement, sheesh! :rolleyes: , as for criticising the available software, well?, maybe you should give the application developers the chance to actually GET their Pandoras and start testing and making releases before bemoaning the lack of software to run on a machine you don't yet have :huh:


edit: mangled quote tag

 

[SNESFAN]

That's not the kinda response I was going after, if you read my other stuff, I'm very open to all sorts of stuff, I like android, apple gear, windows, some Linux blah blah, I try not to tie myself down to any one genre. I hope that's not impression you get, I really despise being hinted at fanboyism. I do notice some people gravitate very strongly to what is current and currently being worked on, and kinda lash out at anyone that suggests otherwise. I do remember a similar response from you a couple months ago when me and you were talking about the iPod touch.

I'm not suggesting everybody convert to android, I'm saying it would be nice to have the choice of android, it's open, it brings additional stuff to the table. An official port would be great as it could be regularly updated instead of depending on a certain community member to do it for you. And it can be a selling point, bring more devs and attention to our platform, more sales, i dont really see a downside of at least having the option.I'm sure you can see the benefit of running alternative os's as an option. The thing I mentioned with 2.1 not running as well as 1.5 was just saying that there is a lot of work involved in porting and driver and kernel writing. I don't want to talk about stuff I don't know much about, but 2.1 uses or makes more use of OpenGL and that portion hasn't been optimized with odroid hardware but when it's done will be able to pump out some high quality graphics, but right now it's not done yet. Quake uses OpenGL right?

I'm going off gut feeling for the app forecast, obviously time will tell, but based off total sales of webos phones and the number of apps in their app catalog, one can only suppose there would be less for the pandora based off total devices. I'm know the dev to user ratio is insanely higher here but there is a limit to the number of quality apps that can be pushed. I used to hang in the webos home brew community and there was definitely talent there, but it's just a numbers thing. You would have to be kidding yourself if you think whatever number it ends up being will stand up against android and apple, or at least continue to as they both mature as well. WebOS I'll go ahead and agree kinda and say maybe.

 

[rabidpoobear]

what is this?, "support your local android" group therapy or something?, if the Pandora has under 2200 unique apps after the first few months then it's failed , think about it, 4000 Pandoras, most of them ordered by developers (either known or closet like me), assume only 2/3rds write only 1 application in the first year, that's over 2600 unique applications (not ports, but stuff aimed specifically at Pandora), I aim to be releasing about 5 in the first year, then add on all the applications that run on Amiga/Atari/DOS emulators, then add all the console emulators and the games they run, then add all the eight bit computers and their games and applications, at a guess that's heading for quarter of a million titles, and it isn't released yet :rolleyes: .

the Pandora will own in the application sector, we may not have the marketing of Apple or the cash behind Android, but we have a damn good community, hell!, we already have some applications written for Pandora and it isn't even released yet, I have six waiting, two ready to go after testing and gfx finalising (IE remove boxes and insert characters, add sound, sort controls etc )

Yeah, I don't think some people realize how much developers want this f**king console to come out.
I've got at least 2 apps that are pretty much ready to go, and I've got probably 5-10 projects I hope to finish in the first year, all targeted specifically for Pandora. I am also planning on porting stuff but a lot of the apps I'm writing are going to be original.

And I think the developer / consumer ratio of this device is quite high.

 

[crade]

if the Pandora has under 2200 unique apps after the first few months then it's failed ,

I don't quite get this new trend to try to count the number of apps available..
apps vary in size and quality and the amount of effort involved in making them so much that it just doesn't seem to make any sense at all.

 

[hobbyman II]

I was merely using the metric that seemed to matter most to the postee, I am aware that 1000 bad apps != 1 good app, but with so many people finally getting their dream development system I tend to think most of the applications will be pretty good if not brilliant, and don't forget, someone else's "awesome fun" application may well be someone else's "useless drivel", so the more apps you have the more chance a large amount of applications suit a specific user, adding to the "I SO made the right choice" feeling when they download another application to add to their bulging SD card

 

[crade]

^ yeah, it wasn't really directed at you, it seems to be common recently, I just don't get it. It's not really good vs. bad..
Someone could make 10 scultures a day, and they might be very nice, but you don't say he is better than the guy who only can make one house a year.

 

[xpansive]

How much longer do you want to wait?

I'm fine with it as it is because it kicks my DS's ass and because I've already waited a year.

 

[drachers]

Amazed this conversation is even taking place. Backstory: Since my Gp2x died, my main handheld for gaming is a Nokia E71, mostly for GBA and Spectrum emulation. Unfortunately the nav-pad can't really do diagonals, which is just about adequate since I'm quite fond of RPGs and turn-based games anyway. The best of the GBA emulators has pretty ropey sound, which isn't likely to be sorted anytime soon - probably a result of the Nokia's less-muscular processor.

After days of fiddling about on sites trying to find a mobile phone that can also do emulated games to a reasonable standard and with a form factor that isn't uncomfortable, I have come up with precisely one, the Motorola Cliq/Dext. Doesn't look bad offhand, left handed dpad and decent keyboard which can be mapped to whichever game buttons necessary. Unfortunately it's cursed with a horrific youth orientated interface that causes hitches and stutters in running applications, especially ones as demanding as a GBA emulator for instance. This can be partially disabled but not completely; a compromise option at best.

For the widest possible 'net' of emulated games with emulators optimised for specific hardware, the Pandora is IT. Despite whining about the processor speed, I have no doubt that for running the stuff I'll be doing on it, there will be no compromises needed whatsoever. And at half the price of a sim-free supersmartphone.

 

[Exophase]

drachers; Are you using vBagX or gpSPSymbian?

 

[drachers]

drachers; Are you using vBagX or gpSPSymbian?

VbagX. I didn't know gpSP was compatible with the E71.

 

[rabidpoobear]

drachers; Are you using vBagX or gpSPSymbian?

VbagX. I didn't know gpSP was compatible with the E71.

vbag sucks, it worked for like 2 plays and then crashed and now won't load the roms anymore.

 

[drachers]

drachers; Are you using vBagX or gpSPSymbian?

VbagX. I didn't know gpSP was compatible with the E71.

vbag sucks, it worked for like 2 plays and then crashed and now won't load the roms anymore.

As far as I can tell the author doesn't update it too often, so if it doesn't currently run on your phone, it may never do so. Weirdly I find certain roms play once and then never again, it might be incorrect region code handling or something. Not that I know a thing about how it actually works.

It's all just a stop-gap till the real deal appears. I'm sorry to say, however, that I'm not one of the Pandora pre-order brigade.

 

[Exophase]

VbagX. I didn't know gpSP was compatible with the E71.

From my limited understang of things I think that vBagX is probably faster, but incapable of producing clean audio even when running at fullspeed.

E71 is S60 3rd edition correct? If so give it a try:

http://www.summeli.fi/?page_id=87

And let me know how it performs. Thanks.

(also keep your eyes on the blog there, because Summeli is working on things still)

 

[drachers]

VbagX. I didn't know gpSP was compatible with the E71.

From my limited understang of things I think that vBagX is probably faster, but incapable of producing clean audio even when running at fullspeed.

E71 is S60 3rd edition correct? If so give it a try:

http://www.summeli.fi/?page_id=87

And let me know how it performs. Thanks.

(also keep your eyes on the blog there, because Summeli is working on things still)

The E71 is on S60 3rd, FP1.

I'm sorry to say it doesn't appear to run, despite me following the instructions on folder placement, correct bios rom etc. Not even an error message. Either it doesn't like my phone, firmware version, something in the configs, could be anything. I'll have a play with it and see if it can be persuaded.

Cheers for taking an interest, in any case!

 

[centus]

Guys, completely off topic (as if the topic is worth being on) but I just wanted to say that after going through this 8 page post, I am proud!
Proud to be part of a community that was able to take this provocative thread and make it into a discussion, aside from the short interaction between two of you on what a Troll is, no one went after the guy with a vengeance (which I had a very strong inclination of doing after reading his first post).

This shows character, and character in a community is very hard to come by...

Thank you all!

 

[rabidpoobear]

Oh we've got plenty of characters here...
Exo, I've got an e71x, it's a S60 3rd edition FP2, it may work better. I'll give it a try at some point and let you guys know.

 

[Summeli]

VbagX. I didn't know gpSP was compatible with the E71.

From my limited understang of things I think that vBagX is probably faster, but incapable of producing clean audio even when running at fullspeed.

E71 is S60 3rd edition correct? If so give it a try:

http://www.summeli.fi/?page_id=87

And let me know how it performs. Thanks.

(also keep your eyes on the blog there, because Summeli is working on things still)

It's really not running that well on symbian, since the blit is way too slow. Also the SDL port I'm using is really slow :/
The good news is that the upcoming Symbian^3 should have new gpraphics architecture, so it should run faster on those devices.

Because of these problems I dumped the whole SDL port, and moved on to porting the gpsp with Qt (so it'll work on future too) for Symbian^1 devices.
I'm almost finished with the new Qt port, so soon it should be running on S60 5th edition and also on new Symbian^3 devices, when they arrive.

And I also have a working memory management solution instead of that "memory trampoline" pattern. So the future looks quite bright on symbian devices, even if everything is looking pretty bad right now

 

[drachers]

VbagX. I didn't know gpSP was compatible with the E71.

From my limited understang of things I think that vBagX is probably faster, but incapable of producing clean audio even when running at fullspeed.

E71 is S60 3rd edition correct? If so give it a try:

http://www.summeli.fi/?page_id=87

And let me know how it performs. Thanks.

(also keep your eyes on the blog there, because Summeli is working on things still)

It's really not running that well on symbian, since the blit is way too slow. Also the SDL port I'm using is really slow :/
The good news is that the upcoming Symbian^3 should have new gpraphics architecture, so it should run faster on those devices.

Because of these problems I dumped the whole SDL port, and moved on to porting the gpsp with Qt (so it'll work on future too) for Symbian^1 devices.
I'm almost finished with the new Qt port, so soon it should be running on S60 5th edition and also on new Symbian^3 devices, when they arrive.

And I also have a working memory management solution instead of that "memory trampoline" pattern. So the future looks quite bright on symbian devices, even if everything is looking pretty bad right now

Hi Summeli, nice work on the emus. From the Antsnes vid it looks like your other project is going very well indeed. One Q though - Does that N97's navpad do diagonals? I wouldn't expect to pull off dragon punches on it, but it's nice to know which phones work for our purposes and which don't. Cheers!

Phew, sorry for turning this into a 'general questions about emulation' thread.

 

[rabidpoobear]

if the Pandora has under 2200 unique apps after the first few months then it's failed ,

I don't quite get this new trend to try to count the number of apps available..
apps vary in size and quality and the amount of effort involved in making them so much that it just doesn't seem to make any sense at all.

nice misquote there.