Pandora "pandora Live"

[.Gogeta§§J4BR.]

Now that most emulators (psx and under) are known to have the great possibility of going gold, plus the fact that most (if not all) pandora users are gamers, what do you think of a possible "community network" for Pandora?

Yes, just like Live is to the 360. except that it's gonna be open and free.
People can play emulators against each other head-to-head (adhoc) or over the internet with wifi, with a painless and easy setup.
People can play their favorite homebrew games, share files, etc.

it's basically multiplayer using wifi, except that there is a smart server running somewhere, to find people near you for a match.
easy-to-use wifi multiplayer code can be ported over several homebrews in order to make it compatible with the system.
people would have gamecards, be able to chat with each other, share files, etc. <- this could be implemented way before, the most important is the idea of every possible game to have easy multiplayer. something like kaillera, but for every emulator and homebrew.

What do you guys think? Is it worth it? Is it so hard to implement? You think you'd never use multiplayer, even though you have wifi in it?

please vote AND give your impressions. I believe it is time to think higher on how connected the community can get now, with the andora1:

 

[Chip]

See the original thread.

 

[.Gogeta§§J4BR.]

lol i've never seen the topic *reading*

 

[.Gogeta§§J4BR.]

well, here we go
on that topic, people either said "it's gonna be cool" (which shows how nice the idea is accepted) or "it's expensive, blablabla, I'm giving reasons why not to support this, because it's not gonna happen anyway"
it's sad to see a community not get excited over a real possibility like this

look at what you said: "the IRC connection could be used to swap IP numbers for P2P gaming. There's no need for a centralized server for multiplayer games on this level. This is assuming that developers take the time to build multiplayer over IP into their games."
what? do you really think it's a nice thing to having to trade IPs to play with a friend? ah cmom, that's the kind of thing you just cant justify...

look at what A_SN said (and fishbong agreed): "nor do I see how things will be different from a plain old laptop when it comes to multiplayer games with the Pandora."
that's simply the kind of person that does not understand the difference between the pandora and a small computer.
there is a HUGE difference in there, and the community work is a part of it.
Ideas to solve this idea without a need for a server, just like Tripmonkey_uk's, is a great example of it.

And start to think about what JakeK said: "I don't think it would be worth the effort with such a small player base."
I'd simply say most, if not the entire community, is gonna play the same emulators and homebrew games on the Pandora. Pandora could set an example for an open community multiplayer system. Think about it, don't just pick the actual winning side.

 

[JakeK]

The small player base coupled with player locations/timezones and internet availability/speed is what is going to kill this sort of service.

This sort of thing isn't as simple as you'd think. You talk about servers and there's software to be developed. Servers aren't free and you'd need at least one per continent if you want people to actually play lag free. Someone needs to develop the code to get this running smoothly.

Unless organised, I doubt that there would be many times where a fair few people are playing at the same time. I'd be all for this if the predicted sales number was probabaly about 10 000, but otherwise this is a waste of time.

 

[plopperz]

Maybe I'm being optimistic but by the time it becomes obsolete, I'd estimate that there would be 15,000 Pandora's sold, and also estimating there would be 9-10 000 people that would actually use the service, and that ~50 people would be playing at any given time, it would be extremely unlikely that any of those 50 people would want to play the same game that you do. We'd have to see how well the first couple of batches sell to see whether or not it would be worth implementing. Although a simple lobby style with a couple of games to choose from might work nicely.


QUOTE
I'd simply say most, if not the entire community, is gonna play the same emulators and homebrew games on the Pandora.

I would highly doubt that. I know that lots of people are going to want to play Amiga games, personally I don't really like the system. Same as I would like to play Gran Tourismo for the PSX, but someone else might want to play Metal Gear Solid in the same emulator.

 

[JakeK]

Exactly PlopperZ, and you'd have to consider the location to of those given people.

people playing what and when would be so random that use of the service would be rare and wouldn't justify its creation.

 

[.Gogeta§§J4BR.]

oh cmom, just take a look at each SD card content from the gp2x users here, youd see some >70% of its software is the same. almost everyone plays snes, genesis, gba emulators. and just like kaillera is, people are always open to try other games once they join the server and see people playing other things

you guys are not getting the idea, im not asking for a huge live system
it would need that much of a server to keep track of it, the server can be small and could just keep track of some gamer info

think of it as a good irc channel, with a smart bot running.
when you run snes9xpand or something, it sends info to the server saying simples stuff like "my name is John / my ip is 123.123.123.123 / I'm playing snes9xpand / I'm playing Street Fighter".
and then would ask the server bot "who is using snes9xpand", and you would see a list of users playing it on the screen.
server side is finished, you will now have the usual direct p2p playing, which many players already have on pc, psp, etc.
then you can do stuff like chatting with the person, send multiplayer invites, etc.

this is NOT hard to implement, and would simplify game matches online.
I don't believe the cost of a simple irc-like server would be that much.
I'm just showing irc could be the channel of this communication, but you could use other solutions, like the jabber one people already talked about.

you are just managing statistics to make people think the user base is too small for this, but it isnt.
even though the user base is small, it's not going to be small enough to justify not doing it.
many people will play it on similar times, so I bet there would be WAY MORE than those 50 people you predicted on 9pm usa-time, for example.
i'd not expect much people when it's night in the usa and morning in the europe, for example.

Now that it is clearer how much is it possible, how easier it is than you think, and how many more people would use it than you predict, please tell me why not to do it.
people want it, I'm sure if the system was available, everyone would use it!

 

[plopperz]

QUOTE
please tell me why not to do it.

Because it would be a waste of time and money. Why should the devs spend thier hard earned cash on something that no ones going to use. Just take a look at these forums, it has ~15 000 people (yes I know not all of these members are active) and there are usually about 15-45 people online at any given time, maybe slightly more during peak hours. That's what you could probably expect.

I'm not completely shooting down this project. I would love as much as any to have an online service, but it's not very realistic.
It might work if one game from a couple of emulated systems and a homebrew game were put into a lobby.

 

[.Gogeta§§J4BR.]

Because it would be a waste of time and money.

it wouldnt take long to be developed, and the server side is very simple and light.

this is NOT hard to implement, and would simplify game matches online.
I don't believe the cost of a simple irc-like server would be that much.
I'm just showing irc could be the channel of this communication, but you could use other solutions, like the jabber one people already talked about.

Just take a look at these forums, it has ~15 000 people (yes I know not all of these members are active) and there are usually about 15-45 people online at any given time, maybe slightly more during peak hours. That's what you could probably expect.

no, that's wrong man... plus, you have to believe the Pandora is getting bigger than that

you are just managing statistics to make people think the user base is too small for this, but it isnt.
even though the user base is small, it's not going to be small enough to justify not doing it.
many people will play it on similar times, so I bet there would be WAY MORE than those 50 people you predicted on 9pm usa-time, for example.
i'd not expect much people when it's night in the usa and morning in the europe, for example.

 

[plopperz]

Alright, lets continue to use my forum comparison. There are 35 members online right now, and it's the middle of the day in the States right now. So lets assume my estimate was off, and it sells 30,000 units that's still only 70 people. Lets go further and assume by some miraculous fluke that the Pandora sells 100,000 units, thats only 117 people.

You should just give this up now, and maybe we'll discuss it when they're shipping the MIII batch.


QUOTE
no, that's wrong man...

Please explain.

 

[Megagun]

Alright, lets continue to use my forum comparison. There are 35 members online right now, and it's the middle of the day in the States right now. So lets assume my estimate was off, and it sells 30,000 units that's still only 70 people. Lets go further and assume by some miraculous fluke that the Pandora sells 100,000 units, thats only 117 people.

You should just give this up now, and maybe we'll discuss it when they're shipping the MIII batch.

QUOTE
no, that's wrong man...

Please explain.

You are actually wrong, since the original posters' idea is to be connected somewhere WHILST PLAYING something on the pandora, not being connected somewhere whilst NOT playing something on it.

What you are looking at now, is the people who are currently NOT playing on their GP2x, rather than currently ARE playing on it.

Also, remember, gp32x.de isn't the GP2x community. The community has people over at the Spanish and German boards, too, who might not frequent gp32x.de..

Another thing, is that (if I recall correctly!), the GP2x community is largely European.

There are also currently 215 guests on the gp32x.de boards. Some might be spiders, but if Invision Power Board is a proper forum engine (which I doubt, actually.. :/) it'd be able to filter out the robots and spiders..

 

[Rayek]

Maybe I'm being optimistic but by the time it becomes obsolete, I'd estimate that there would be 15,000 Pandora's sold, and also estimating there would be 9-10 000 people that would actually use the service, and that ~50 people would be playing at any given time, it would be extremely unlikely that any of those 50 people would want to play the same game that you do. We'd have to see how well the first couple of batches sell to see whether or not it would be worth implementing. Although a simple lobby style with a couple of games to choose from might work nicely.

Well, I think that a simple host/client connection, in lieu of Kaillera, would work quite well. Most of the time it's not a matter of you wanting to play a particular game, it's the enjoyment of playing against someone else. So there's nothing stopping people from opening, say, a Gunstar Heroes room and waiting for someone to start playing with them.

But if there are say 50 people wanting to play a game, and only 30 of them want to play a particular game, then I'd say its a pretty fair matchup. I personally won't care most of the time what game I play, so long I have some experience with it.

 

[JakeK]

If the software is there, go for it. I just wouldn't expect constant maintenance from devs with their own software. If people play each other without a server, that would be even better. But I someone has to pay for a server I wouldn't see it happening.

For me this service is going to be shit anyway, I can only probably play with about 10 other Australians but then it depends on when they are on.

I don't see much interest in a service like this by devs.

 

[plopperz]

QUOTE
You are actually wrong, since the original posters' idea is to be connected somewhere WHILST PLAYING something on the pandora, not being connected somewhere whilst NOT playing something on it.

What you are looking at now, is the people who are currently NOT playing on their GP2x, rather than currently ARE playing on it.

It may be because I am tired, but I don't really understand what you are trying to say here. I think you mean that someone is going to be connected to the service, but not actually doing anything on it? If thats the case then I have no idea where you got that from.
QUOTE
Also, remember, gp32x.de isn't the GP2x community. The community has people over at the Spanish and German boards, too, who might not frequent gp32x.de..

That was just an example of something with the same amount of people as my estimate of unit sales. Not something I based my estimation on. I could've compared it to something completely different online service with approximately the same amount of members, and it would have around a similar amount of members online at any given time.
QUOTE

Another thing, is that (if I recall correctly!), the GP2x community is largely European.

I had thought about this when writing my original post, but decided to leave it out. I find that peak hour on here is ~2-3pm US time, which is when most Americans would be working/ going to school. This is a fairly global community, I know there are many Brits, Australians, and a few Americans in this forum. I am in Singapore right now and know a few friends back home in Canada that are planning on purchasing Pandoras. Considering that we have members from all over the world peak hour doesn't really mean much. Assuming we'd see a similar trend with the Pandora, there would be no less than 10 people online, and no more than 50.
QUOTE
There are also currently 215 guests on the gp32x.de boards. Some might be spiders, but if Invision Power Board is a proper forum engine (which I doubt, actually.. :/) it'd be able to filter out the robots and spiders..

Again, that was just a comparison. If I included guests then it wouldn't really be that accurate.



I could always be very wrong in what I said. But even than, there wouldn't be more than 500 people online, which really isn't enough when you compare it to other online multiplayer services.

 

[argor]

Alright, lets continue to use my forum comparison. There are 35 members online right now, and it's the middle of the day in the States right now. So lets assume my estimate was off, and it sells 30,000 units that's still only 70 people. Lets go further and assume by some miraculous fluke that the Pandora sells 100,000 units, thats only 117 people.

You should just give this up now, and maybe we'll discuss it when they're shipping the MIII batch.

QUOTE
no, that's wrong man...

Please explain.

i like to point out even gp2x did sell more than 50,000
it most likely that the pandora will out the gp2x andora2:

 

[plopperz]

QUOTE

i like to point out even gp2x did sell more than 50,000
it most likely that the pandora will out the gp2x andora2:


Even still, I think we would have to sell at least 250,000 before a project like this would be worth it.
Although, it might still be OK to have this for private games with friends, although the majority of us are not going to have friends with Pandora's.

 

[.Gogeta§§J4BR.]

nice to see the topic was up even after I was gone, and thanks to megagun for saying what I would have said if I was here

it's only be a small system at start, just a small server to get people connected more easily, so you can see some 10 people who are also playing the snes emulator along with you, so you can get to play directly with one of them.

many of these emulators-ported-to-portables already have multiplayer, even thought you have probably never found a friend to play against.
well, with the internet and a smart server, this will be changed

 

[JakeK]

It is easy to say it is easy, but someone still has to actually do it.

 

[.Gogeta§§J4BR.]

It is easy to say it is easy, but someone still has to actually do it.

It is not wrong for me to give an advice about a painting's colors to an artist, even though I can't paint B)
(but I can already make stick figures, which can be fun )