Pandora 2 probability debate

[aatu]

@thatgui:

Regarding this thread:
(Well, bukkit already responded, but I think my respond is more illustrative (and shorter))
The thread is still alive because someone posts more, and someone else wants to respond.
(and we all like to debate)

Regarding evidence:
The other people are not an evidence that the survey option was a "declaration of will to forfeit money".
The other people are an evidence that it "could have been (and indeed was) interpreted as declaration of will to forfeit money".

 

[bukkit]

One might even say that bukkit obviously fears being labeled as someone who is afraid of things

Well, let's stay with "uneasy" there, too.

I just would want to neither waste that at least partially useful emotion nor the even more useful word on something as insignificant as this.

(There is a malfunction of the amygdala resulting in people not knowing fear, it is assumed. I don't suffer from that.)

 

[WizardStan]

Like I said. Repetition does not make it true. I'm not afraid of losing my money. I just don't prefer losing my money. I'm not envisioning anything like a threat, I'm envisioning possible complications. You're just afraid, chicken scared, to admit you're wrong.

Are you trolling me, or do you genuinely not understand what words mean? I showed you the dictionary definition and you still insist I'm wrong.
Moxie makes an excellent point, I recognize culture shock here now: you don't want to admit to fear, fine. It doesn't change the fact that by definition you are afraid of losing your money. You want to ignore that definition, go right ahead, just accept that the definition exists and that's what I've been using. I honestly meant no ill by suggesting you were afraid to lose your money. I'm afraid of doing a lot of things that wouldn't fall under your limited definition, I'll admit to them, there's nothing wrong with that. I didn't realize you'd take it as a personal insult. It's just a word, it has a definition, I was intentionally using it to the definition.

 

[bukkit]

I don't think that constitutes as "fear".

The dictionary disagrees with you.

Not really. People shouldn't put too much respect towards something called "the dictionary".

But that aside, let's just assume for this explanation your quotes are from "the dictionary" and "the dictionary" is a source of truth.

If you want to prove you're right, it isn't sufficient to find a definition of "fear" in "the dictionary" including words which could possibly be considered synonymous to the words "uneasiness" or "unwillingness" (which I used).

Logic, instead, requires you to find a dictionary entry for "fear" defining it as including all variants of "a distressing emotion" (not just "a distressing emotion", which "the dictionary" offered), and then an entry for "distressing emotion" including "unwillingness" or "uneasiness" to make a valid deduction. The latter is hereby granted without proof.

Another option would be to find dictionary entries for the words "uneasiness" or "unwillingness" defining them as nothing but a subset of "fear".

 

[WizardStan]

Wow. You really don't like the word "fear". Forget I said anything, I'm afraid I can't help you.

 

[bukkit]

Moxie makes an excellent point, I recognize culture shock here now: you don't want to admit to fear, fine.

I have absolutely no problem at all to admit to fear when I believe I feel fear.

It's just, I don't feel fear in this issue.

It's just a word, it has a definition, I was intentionally using it to the definition.

You might have used the word by definition, but that does - for reasons of logic - not allow you to define the feelings I am reporting as being included by it. The postings crossed; the explanation for that is in my previous post.

If I'm using the word "hallucination" according to its dictionary entry, it doesn't allow me to extend that definition to your perception of what I'm writing. It could be something else entirely.

 

[bukkit]

Wow. You really don't like the word "fear".

Hm. Wrong. Like most, if not all, of what you write about my feelings in this thread, and it's peculiar enough you should insist on defining my feelings all the time, you seem to pull that from somewhere and I really can't spot the source.

I actually described fear as a sometimes useful emotion, admitted to knowing fear, considered it a useful word and used it all the time since you used it. I'd like to know where you draw your conclusions from, to maybe get to the source of all this, but I'm at a loss, sorry.

 

[WizardStan]

You're going through a lot of mental gymnastics to avoid accepting that what you are experiencing can be defined as fear, as I pointed out. My brain isn't that flexible, so I guess you win. I was wrong to suggest that you were afraid of losing your money.

 

[Neelix]

I already mentioned the fact the survey is unnecessarily coupled with personal and order data. For a survey, that wouldn't be necessary at all.

That was necessary for the other (and to my mind more important) function of the survey.  By filling out the survey you are giving Craig permission to pass on your order details to ED for the purpose of fulfilling your order.

- Neelix

 

[aatu]

@WizardStan:

Actually, I think your last post is the first one where you say "it CAN be described as fear", instead of straight-out saying he's "afraid". Furthermore, the first time you said it, he did promptly and quite politely point out that "fear" or "being afraid" was not the case. You were the one pushing it further.

In case the "can" wasn't a critical word in the sentence, check the spoiler:

Spoiler

I'm not sure if you understood what bukkit was trying to say. (well, the above mentioned "can" word suggested you got it, but just in case)

Just for example, check the word "unwilling" and check the word "uneasiness". I'm pretty sure their dictionary definitions can also be applied here. And I'm quite sure they aren't even the only ones, there are probably dozen other words/emotions that can describe his situation. But the thing is, you can't really be a judge of what he's feeling. Granted, he might lie that he's not feeling what he really is feeling. But the fact is that definitions of unwilling and uneasy (among others) also apply(*). Some definitions describe the situation/feelings better than others, and you'll just have to take his word on what is the actual case.

(*): or most probably apply, as I didn't actually check their definitions, just going by what I think they are, but I'm pretty sure I know the general meaning of them

 

[Franko]

I'm afraid to even read back at the now FIVE pages of this thread???  Holy bajeezers.  Here I thought I was long-winded.    

Whatever you decide on Bukkit, (regarding this survey at least), I hope that it all works out for you.  I've already spent way too much time espousing my views on things.  Do what you think best...and good luck.  This is probably just a simple survey and not a life and death issue...but considering the drama to this point, sometimes I wonder...

 

[aatu]

@Franko:

Btw, did you know you make an appearance on pages 1, 2, 4 and 6? So you've pretty much been here all the time.

And for the new people coming in later, you're actually the starter of the thread, too. They might be a little confused of the opening post at first, though.

 

[Franko]

@Franko:

Btw, did you know you make an appearance on pages 1, 2, 4 and 6? So you've pretty much been here all the time.

And for the new people coming in later, you're actually the starter of the thread, too. They might be a little confused of the opening post at first, though.

I didn't "create" this thread.  For some reason a Moderator decided to break it off from the original one starting with one of my posts.  It's not an original one of mine...and after I typed "FIVE" and looked at the page count I felt like an idiot, but I found it a bit minor to edit...just for editing sakes.  I simply don't care if you or anyone thinks that I'm an idiot or can't spell.  I'm mostly just here because I feel the need to be vested in this product now that I own one.  I want to feel connected so that I can stay close to the developments and such.  Of course I appear on multiple pages on this thread, I didn't deny that, in fact I said that "I've already spent way too much time espousing my views on things."  Which would denote that I've posted a bit on the topic at hand.  I'm just saying that I wish Bukkit well on whatever he decides to do - nothing more.  I swear that sometimes people look for things to argue about here.  It's an interesting bloggosphere here...quite a case study of head-strong people.

 

[aatu]

Yeah, I know you didn't create the thread (that's what the latter half of my post was actually all about). I think at one point I even noted that this is a forked thread...

But yeah, I've occasionally been wondering if the thread is eventually gonna be modded further down to Off-topic. But I think because this thread was already forked from another thread, we're given a little leeway for that. Furthermore, the sub-forum is "Pandora 2 spam" and the thread title contains "debate", in any case, so some amount of excess debating is forgiven.

 

[bukkit]

I'm afraid to even read back at the now FIVE pages of this thread???  Holy bajeezers.  Here I thought I was long-winded.    

Whatever you decide on Bukkit, (regarding this survey at least), I hope that it all works out for you.  I've already spent way too much time espousing my views on things.  Do what you think best...and good luck.  This is probably just a simple survey and not a life and death issue...but considering the drama to this point, sometimes I wonder...

I was totally ready to waste my time in your chat after you invited me. But the studio was (and is) empty. What should I do?

 

[ekianjo]

This topic has become very boring..

 

[bukkit]

You're going through a lot of mental gymnastics to avoid accepting that what you are experiencing can be defined as fear, as I pointed out. My brain isn't that flexible, so I guess you win. I was wrong to suggest that you were afraid of losing your money.

I wasn't avoiding that. I was defending it was stated as a fact while it couldn't be stated as fact. You weren't just on my territory threadwise (it probably can't be denied this thread would be perfectly alright just with me lonely waiting for a Craig that never comes, and a handful spectators interested in that Craig), you were also on my territory mindwise by all the time assuming about my state of mind and then claiming that assumption as a fact. After the logic behind that was destroyed, you effectively only had prejudice left. This prejudice would have been still questionable if you had put that in conjunctive, but stated as a fact it certainly couldn't stand. It could have been fear, that is true, but it wasn't, and I guess as long as I'm considered mentally sane (an entirely different subject) I should have the last word on that.

That is the crucial part aatu pointed out so nicely. I'm actually glad you used subjunctive this time. As I'm not afraid to repeat, I appreciate your input in this community a lot, and I guess that won't change. I hope it doesn't for you, just because I claim intimate knowledge of my inner workings.

 

[bukkit]

I already mentioned the fact the survey is unnecessarily coupled with personal and order data. For a survey, that wouldn't be necessary at all.

 That was necessary for the other (and to my mind more important) function of the survey.  By filling out the survey you are giving Craig permission to pass on your order details to ED for the purpose of fulfilling your order.

- Neelix

Yeah, I know. That, and updating address info, order volume, order numbers and stuff. But I still think this should have been handled as two separate issues. It's not only bad to couple these functions for the given reasons, it's also bad you can't use the second function without the first. The survey should at least contain an option "I don't know yet" so you could use the more important function (let's call it "order stuff") without the survey.

 

[WizardStan]

I already admitted I was wrong for trying to suggest that you were afraid of losing your money, I don't know what more you want. It's obvious your view on reality (particularly when it comes to how word definitions are applied) is so far removed from my own that there can be no reconciliation. I should have realized this when you originally insisted you weren't asking for details, so I apologize.

 

[Franko]

I'm afraid to even read back at the now FIVE pages of this thread???  Holy bajeezers.  Here I thought I was long-winded.    


Whatever you decide on Bukkit, (regarding this survey at least), I hope that it all works out for you.  I've already spent way too much time espousing my views on things.  Do what you think best...and good luck.  This is probably just a simple survey and not a life and death issue...but considering the drama to this point, sometimes I wonder...

I was totally ready to waste my time in your chat after you invited me. But the studio was (and is) empty. What should I do?

Oh that "nonsense thread" you must mean...LOL.  That was another thread that I didn't "create".  Not voluntarily at least.  I also thought it best to lay low a bit and not come off as a total crazy person after a while.  I went a little nutty that night after I was seeing excessive moderation, and posts being moved around...maybe I was trying to prove a point.  I had fun with it all though...from what I can remember.    


I've come to realize that my time here will be shortened if I don't reel in my inner gonzo self - I can save the crazy for other websites (like Facebook or whatever).  This place is about a technological device and I'd rather learn what I can, while I can.  I seriously doubt that I'll be reprising my role as a TV show host in the near future...but thanks for remembering.