Outer Space Ordering Info

[mali]

.

 

[jutleys]

Here we came on july 7 2010 to your planet we gartrians were looking for craigx but the co pilot fucked up he took us to china instead of england uk we will return this is real please dont take this as fake we will find craigx.

 

[Exophase]

^ There is a real delete button, but it isn't used, at least I don't use it.

I'm not MOD for the WIZ section. I've got the rights for the whole board and will do it till ED finds some time to appoint someone else. From the few times I visited the WIZ section in the past and reading discussions in the Off Topic area I gather that The WIZ enthusiasts are not happy at all about the flaming and bullying from mostly Pandora interested people. They even discussed a split of the community a while ago. I think the WIZ section needs own MODs so this won't happen any more.

Well I guess we have a different idea of how modding works, I never had this idea that if you have rights for an entire forum you shouldn't be using them. Maybe some forums are like that, but that doesn't mean they strictly have to be.

Caanoo enthusiasts are not happy about all the negative feedback, but it's not from "mostly Pandora interested people", it's from people who aren't happy about decisions that GPH are making. Don't get the wrong idea, a lot of the complaints are in fact coming from people who own and like the Wiz; a lot of the complaints are BECAUSE the people are Wiz fans who don't like that GPH discontinued the product and are replacing it with something they find incompatible. Calling it bullying is just ridiculous, how can you possibly consider something like this bullying.... Let's put it another way - the Wiz sections have been there for nearly two years, and only now complaints about mods are coming up?

You say the Wiz section needs its own mods but you're entirely happy to moderate it, unfortunately without really having a concept of what's going on there and instead gaging the situation purely by complaints. Do you really think that there's no room for a biased perspective in any of this?

To make it clear, I don't say that _you_ bully people, but when the thread starter asks for not posting off topic he deservs the right to get a discussion without off topic. I say it again, there is _no_ active MOD in that section right now and what should they do instead of asking?

Guess we're just going to have to disagree on this, I don't think a thread starter deserves special rights over their thread, and I don't think "post here if you've ordered your Wiz!" can even be considered a discussion; for it to be upgraded to one it'd probably have to go pretty significantly off topic. What should they do instead of "asking?" Like I said, replying to some one-off post to say "stop going off topic" is counter-productive, so I guess they should do nothing! Stop using the "no active mod" argument if you're willing to actively moderate the board.

 

[mali]

^ I won't let myself drag into a semantics discussion with you
I based my decision on the info I had and that's basically it. I thought about splitting the topic for a short moment, but didn't see a reason to conserve that piece of finest nitpicking at all.

I don't care about GPH, nor WIZ or Caanoo. I don't care about arguing and I don't care about off topic. The facts I had combined with common sense led to my decision to unapprove said posts to enable a normal conversation a few posters in that thread and the thread starter wanted to have. That's it, nothing special. We could continue going on tangents like being unhappy with GPH and being a MOD for the boards and whatever else has basically nothing todo with the situation of those unapproved posts. Everybody can send a PM if he wants to have his post unhidden if it makes sense.

 

[SomeGuy99]

^ I won't let myself drag into a semantics discussion with you
I based my decision on the info I had and that's basically it. I thought about splitting the topic for a short moment, but didn't see a reason to conserve that piece of finest nitpicking at all.

I don't care about GPH, nor WIZ or Caanoo. I don't care about arguing and I don't care about off topic. The facts I had combined with common sense led to my decision to unapprove said posts to enable a normal conversation a few posters in that thread and the thread starter wanted to have. That's it, nothing special. We could continue going on tangents like being unhappy with GPH and being a MOD for the boards and whatever else has basically nothing todo with the situation of those unapproved posts. Everybody can send a PM if he wants to have his post unhidden if it makes sense.

I distinctly recall Chip and others saying that the moderating style round these parts is to let stupid conversation burn itself out. Locking, deleting or editing is an extremely disruptive thing to do, and more often than not just fuels the fire... it just intensifies things, and makes the trolls more passionate and indignant.

This is the first I've heard of the Pandora community bullying the Wiz/Canoo/GPH community. The only references I've heard to these machines on the Pandora board is posters recommending them to people unsure about buying a Pandora.

It is a mods place to facilitate discussion, not make a judgement call about what is and isn't stupid discussion.

 

[Exophase]

^ I won't let myself drag into a semantics discussion with you
I based my decision on the info I had and that's basically it. I thought about splitting the topic for a short moment, but didn't see a reason to conserve that piece of finest nitpicking at all.

I don't care about GPH, nor WIZ or Caanoo. I don't care about arguing and I don't care about off topic. The facts I had combined with common sense led to my decision to unapprove said posts to enable a normal conversation a few posters in that thread and the thread starter wanted to have. That's it, nothing special. We could continue going on tangents like being unhappy with GPH and being a MOD for the boards and whatever else has basically nothing todo with the situation of those unapproved posts. Everybody can send a PM if he wants to have his post unhidden if it makes sense.

This is not a semantics discussion, it isn't nitpicking. I'm sorry you feel that way, but I think it's pretty on-target. I'm not arguing for the sake of argument. I think you're readily dismissing everything I'm saying because you don't want to deal with it. Your response sounds a lot like "stay on topic" for "should the posts have been hidden"; there are a lot of related factors that go beyond that. It's silly to even talk about staying on topic when that topic was never established here in the first place.. probably almost as silly as it'd be to stay on the actual topic of this thread.

Sending a PM to have a post unhidden is kind of hard when you don't know who made it hidden. Maybe when you do that you should send a PM to inform the user. That way they'll also know they did something you think is wrong, and maybe you can even tell them why, and instead of passively moderating some improvement can be made or if that's not possible some alternate consensus can be reached on how things should be done. They might not even know you hid anything.

 

[mali]

@Someguy
I will tell you a little secret, my friend
I think ahead and I often think further ahead than just a few weeks or months. I was often right in between flamewars trying to influence in a positive way and I helped Chip even if a not so involved person didn't see it. In fact the only reason I signed up to the forums back then was to help building up the community.
We have to think about the fact that we already crossed an important point when the first units were delivered and I switched to the support area, which is basically the reason I wanted have the MOD job.
I'm still thinking ahead and plan to prepare for the next bigger run of delivered Pandoras and I will be right there in between helping and we will have a few more MODs rooted deeply in the current community. It's time to kiss the "good old days" good bye when there was a gigantic flamewar every other day.

We will have WIZ MODs soon who know their respective section better than me, but I doubt they would have acted differently.
Tell me one single reason I shouldn't have unapproved those posts. "Erm, just.... because" doesn't count

And your knowledge regarding the WIZ section is even thinner than mine

 

[mali]

This is not a semantics discussion, it isn't nitpicking.

This is exactly a semantics discussion, because I referred to the unapproved posts as nitpicking and you refer to this discussion as nitpicking, which I didn't.

^
|
And this is now double(or tripple) semantizised

I'm not going to argue if a topic needs to be established to deserve on topic discussion.
What I did here is basically balancing of legally protected interests so to say. You freedom to argue was less valuable than the freedom of the others to discuss. This might not have happened if the MOD was rooted in the WIZ part of the community. We'll find out soon how they'll handle it.

 

[SomeGuy99]

I see. So you're think you're being clever and strategic and you know what's best for the forum?

I do believe you have our best interests at heart, but I think you're doing it wrong. Isn't moderation more about common sense?

Well, you have you own ideas about how to proceed and they are set in stone. Clearly you're a genius, and everything will be fine.

 

[mali]

^ At least I know you good enough now

 

[SomeGuy99]

You reckon?

I think I need a break from this community.

 

[Exophase]

Why you shouldn't have removed the posts in particular: because you were awfully selective, ie didn't remove Nova's post which IMO instigated the entire thing, because it's evasive and non-corrective behavior that just led to what we're talking about now...
Why you shouldn't have removed the posts in general: see all of the other reasons given in this thread. There's more than one way to deal with a problematic situation. Most mods don't remove posts outright, without any explanation. We've seen several times in the past the kind of negative backlash this creates.

I don't think I was taking away anyone's freedom to discuss, or I wouldn't be if there were a discussion in the first place. Maybe I was acting more out of personal interest in defending myself, but I think the whole "you must stay on topic" ethos is worth addressing.

Anyway, this all started from me saying, pretty tongue in cheek, "mali, stop deleting posts " and escalated as you see it. Actually, I'm talking about way more than just THOSE posts, including whatever ones you hid on this thread for whatever reason (there's that removal of public scrutiny again..)... so I guess you're prone to getting into defensive tirades much like I am.

And re: all this long term planning and trying to avoid big problems from happening preemptively. Pretty disturbing mindset for "authorities" to have (probably don't need to make any analogies to Minority Report or anything like that)

 

[SomeGuy99]

Save your breath Exo, he's not bothered about our opinions. His moderating is apparently strategic, and we will supposedly see the benefit some time later... in his 'vision' of the future.

Or he's trolling us... which a mod shouldn't do either. His Downfall.

 

[Exophase]

Okay...

mali, I just hope you don't end up having the same kind of opinion of me that you seem to have of SomeGuy now. This isn't personal, I like you and think you offer a lot to this community, as a mod too. I'm not calling you power hungry or calling for you to stop being a mod or anything like that, I'm just saying these things straight to you to get you to more carefully evaluate your moderation strategy because obviously I don't agree with all of your approaches. The disagreement is more in the method than the mentality.

 

[mali]

@Exo
I find it extremely hurting that you suggest I would hide posts at will and that you suggest I'd have a mindset of authorities a la minority report
I think you should ask yourself if it's a good thing to fight things through till someone is really hurt when you don't get your will.

Minority report, yeah right. That's why I asked to make Prometheus and Gruso MODs, everyone knows they are quite skilled tyrants.

You should learn to get some perspective and I'm fed up with this thread completely now.
I'll take the blame and ask you politely via PM next time to stop.

 

[SomeGuy99]

He doesn't mean it. It's his self confessed 'little girl crying' routine. Don't be fooled!



You shouldn't have told me that dude. Now I know you're faking this in order for us to back down... which we would do, because we're fundamentally nice and well meaning people. Of course, you are too.

Hey guess what? Everyone in this thread actually likes each other. Weird!

Pulling that routine out the bag has just given me more energy for this discussion. Thanks!

Edit:

I'm not sure this will all end well Mali. I have had a lifelong problem with authority... I never know when to stop. This path we are on may end up with me being banned, knowing what I'm like.

 

[Nova]

Don't make me re-post the penguin jpeg.

 

[SomeGuy99]

Don't make me re-post the penguin jpeg.

The penguin won't stop a very nice person from banning another.

I feel like the Terminator at the end of T2 when he has to be lowered into the lava.

You know what? Fuck it! I'm having a walk in the park.

 

[mali]

He doesn't mean it. It's his self confessed 'little girl crying' routine. Don't be fooled!



You shouldn't have told me that dude. Now I know you're faking this in order for us to back down... which we would do, because we're fundamentally nice and well meaning people. Of course, you are too.

Hey guess what? Everyone in this thread actually likes each other. Weird!

Pulling that routine out the bag has just given me more energy for this discussion. Thanks!

Edit:

I'm not sure this will all end well Mali. I have had a lifelong problem with authority... I never know when to stop. This path we are on may end up with me being banned, knowing what I'm like.

You think this was true? Maybe I just said it to protect myself
Actually I think this might end well, cause I'm exactly the same
Aside from my escapades unapproving random posts I don't warn people at least.

 

[SomeGuy99]

I don't play mindgames Mali, sorry. It makes me far less sympathetic to you in the longrun (because you never know if the person in question is lying, so you generally just assume whatever you want about them).

I'm off for my walk in the park.

You're not off the hook lad. Think about what you did!