Our New Machine, Pandora

[PokeParadox]

That's no problem, just use composite instead

For ultimate retro - An RF-modulator-box, set to UHF channel 36 :lol:

Ick... composite video is nasty... RGB wired scart please, for a nice stable picture! Or maybe a better idea... would be to have a video out port on the console, and have the facility to have an RGB scart out/Svideo out... etc. I.e different cables coul be sold in different regions...

 

[Vorporeal]

We know that this doesn't have bluetooth, but the device should be designed so that a USB bluetooth dongle can be used without having to do any major setup. I dunno if this would be something that would require configuring in the kernel (I've never really done any kernel work on computers with wireless/USB adapters) or whether just having USB support should do the trick. I'm sure there will be people who would find out-of-the-box bluetooth support (and maybe some sort of preloaded bluetooth connection GUI) extremely useful.

 

[Vimacs]

Well, with those specs, and enugh flash, it shouldnt be to hard to have a pile of precompiled modules for common hardware and the hotplugd service running.

 

[foft]

They're not converters. All they do is send the S-video signal onto two pins on the SCART connector (I've tested a fair number of them!), which is not supported by most SCART-equipped TV sets (in fact all that obey the "strict" SCART standard), resulting in only luma being picked up by the TV (hence resulting in a grayscale image). Luma is sent on the Composite video input, and Chroma is sent on the Blue input which the TV set does not accept (unless it supports non-standard "extensions" which most don't).
And even if they were converters, the quality would be far, far worse than native RGB (which is "arcade-accurate").

Well they don't all do that. For instance the Keene RGB->SVideo is real... (http://www.keene.co.uk/electronics/multi.php?mycode=RGB2SE) Picture quality is very good, practically no difference from direct RGB. Of course direct RGB would be better, + it saves 60 quid.

Mark

 

[Vorporeal]

Well, with those specs, and enugh flash, it shouldnt be to hard to have a pile of precompiled modules for common hardware and the hotplugd service running.

Ah, yes, I forgot about the wonders of hotplug. That should work, especially if the kernel used is a genkernel-equivalent (most hardware would be supported through modules).

 

[atomicthumbs]

It ought to have a slow-scan TV transmitter, for the amateur radio operators here.

 

[God Ginrai]

That's no problem, just use composite instead

For ultimate retro - An RF-modulator-box, set to UHF channel 36 :lol:

Ick... composite video is nasty... RGB wired scart please, for a nice stable picture! Or maybe a better idea... would be to have a video out port on the console, and have the facility to have an RGB scart out/Svideo out... etc. I.e different cables coul be sold in different regions...


How about Composite in box, so that it works everywhere, and THEN have other things like RGB scart and S-video sold seperately. That way, for Craigix and crew, they don't have to put seperate things in each box. For all the consumers, they automatically have working TV-out no matter what distributor they buy from. And, for those who want better quality, they can spend the extra cash for the accessory that is sold seperately, which also makes Craigix a little more dough.

-God Ginrai

 

[Eolair]

The OMAP3430 has composite and s-video output so that's most likely what we'll have. I don't think Craigix will be adding native RGB support to this already expensive device. Maybe if you're lucky you'll get a scart adapter included. More likely that will be sold seperately or you'll have to fix one yourself (buy adapter and link pin 15 with 20 for color).

 

[javaJake]

OK, this is where my lack of knowledge really bugs me. I'm using a fairly standard white, yellow, and red cables here in the US to connect devices to my TV. Composite, AFAIK, is something I'd need an adapter for.

Point being, what's what? And if the Craig2X (whatever the codename happens to be) doesn't include support for the US' white-yellow-red cable system, is an adapter included or cheaply bought?

Link me to pages if that's easier - I don't mind reading.

 

[Vimacs]

OK, this is where my lack of knowledge really bugs me. I'm using a fairly standard white, yellow, and red cables here in the US to connect devices to my TV. Composite, AFAIK, is something I'd need an adapter for.

Point being, what's what? And if the Craig2X (whatever the codename happens to be) doesn't include support for the US' white-yellow-red cable system, is an adapter included or cheaply bought?

Link me to pages if that's easier - I don't mind reading.

thats composite
yellow=composite
red=audio right
white=audio left (or vice versa)

 

[javaJake]

thats composite
yellow=composite
red=audio right
white=audio left (or vice versa)

Per-fect!

So the single-cable with 7-odd pins in it must be S-Video?

 

[DaveC]

The OMAP3430 has composite and s-video output so that's most likely what we'll have. I don't think Craigix will be adding native RGB support to this already expensive device. Maybe if you're lucky you'll get a scart adapter included. More likely that will be sold seperately or you'll have to fix one yourself (buy adapter and link pin 15 with 20 for color).

I surely hope that at *least* S-video is available at least through some sort of connector even if optional. Composite is total lowest quality crap with tons of color bleeding, dot crawl, noise and poor contrast. It is absolute poke-your-eyes-out-with-a-hot-poker rubbish, arrgh.

At least with S-video you can get a cheapo adapter to downconvert to craposite so you can get both. If it starts out as craposite it can't get any better and will forever look like shit.

.. nor do I see him using Gmenu2x, but rather have a menu made internally by them, hopefully something much better than Gmenu2x (sorry Ryo but I just can't get used to it, and I'd find it awful if the new console shipped with such a menu)

And what do you suggest? I have seen nothing better so far. GPHs "menu" is dreadful. Others are big on flash but are short on useability. Many force you to slowly scroll one by one through a list while pretty pictures (that you get sick of seeing after the third time) slowly come up. That is Ok if you have less than 10 apps but other than that they are awful. What is better?

 

[realyst]

For those who need help with standards:

Composite(Also known as RCA since it uses the RCA style connectors created by the company of the same name):

Red: right audio
White: Left Audio
Yellow: All video

Component(to confuse matters, these also use RCA connectors, but this is technically known as Y'PbPr):

The wires are Green, Blue and Orangey-Red for Luma, Chroma and Sync.


SCART(Syndicat des Constructeurs d'Appareils Radiorécepteurs et Téléviseurs, french for "TV and Radiocommunications Equipment Manufacturer's Syndicate" ): only used in Europe, with failed introduction in Asia. The connector looks like it has teeth to devour you with but very similar to Y'PbPr in operation though it has a few extras on it like the ability to control your TV's basic operation and doesn't require more then the one connector for all input/output).

S-Video is like Y'PbPr but comes in a tiny round connector. All three signals are still fed along one cable so it still bleeds more then the Component cables but far less then composite(which has all video signals on one wire).

So to simplify things:

Red-Green-Yellow cables: Composite(aka RCA)
Green-Blue-Orangey cables: Y'PbPr(aka Component)
Looks like an older, more menacing DVI jack and only found in Europe: SCART
Lil round thing that looks like a PS2 mouse jack with 4 pins inside: S-Video
Little blue old-style computer monintor connector: VGA
New style LCD computer video connector, usually white, all digital: DVI(comes in DVI, DVI-I and DVI-D)

 

[DaveC]

For those who need help with standards:

Composite(Also known as RCA since it uses the RCA style connectors created by the company of the same name):

Red: right audio
White: Left Audio
Yellow: All video

Component(to confuse matters, these also use RCA connectors, but this is technically known as Y'PbPr):

The wires are Green, Blue and Orangey-Red for Luma, Chroma and Sync.

SCART(Syndicat des Constructeurs d'Appareils Radiorécepteurs et Téléviseurs, french for "TV and Radiocommunications Equipment Manufacturer's Syndicate" ): only used in Europe, with failed introduction in Asia. The connector looks like it has teeth to devour you with but very similar to Y'PbPr in operation though it has a few extras on it like the ability to control your TV's basic operation and doesn't require more then the one connector for all input/output).

S-Video is like Y'PbPr but comes in a tiny round connector. All three signals are still fed along one cable so it still bleeds more then the Component cables but far less then composite(which has all video signals on one wire).

So to simplify things:




Actually Component is luma (Y) in one wire plus the "color difference" signals of blue minus luma (B-Y) in another wire and red minus luma (R-Y) in another. 1 wire in each co-axial cable is ground. So there are 4 discrete connections here (which includes ground).

S-video separates Luma and Chroma (Y-C). There are really only 3 wires that do anything in that S-video cable, Chroma, Luma, and ground. Still just keeping the luma and chroma separate makes quite a difference in color, contrast and clarity.

SCART RGB leads have separate wires for Red, Green, Blue, and composite sync. There are 5 connections here. Arcade games use this type of connection as well as the Amiga computers. Computer monitors have very similar connections still today with minor things added like separating out the grounds for each color and have separate horizontal and vertical sync lines.

Composite combines everything in one lump of shit and pukes it through a single wire (plus ground).

 

[realyst]

Actually Component is luma (Y) in one wire plus the "color difference" signals of blue minus luma (B-Y) in another wire and red minus luma (R-Y) in another. 1 wire in each co-axial cable is ground. So there are 4 discrete connections here (which includes ground).

S-video separates Luma and Chroma (Y-C). There are really only 3 wires that do anything in that S-video cable, Chroma, Luma, and ground. Still just keeping the luma and chroma separate makes quite a difference in color, contrast and clarity.

SCART RGB leads have separate wires for Red, Green, Blue, and composite sync. There are 5 connections here. Arcade games use this type of connection as well as the Amiga computers. Computer monitors have very similar connections still today with minor things added like separating out the grounds for each color and have separate horizontal and vertical sync lines.

Composite combines everything in one lump of shit and pukes it through a single wire (plus ground).

I stand corrected. I didn't do that much research pre-post and was mostly spouting by ear

Though I agree Composite is weak and delivers lots of bleeding colors, it's also fairly common, and pretty much ever present in even the cheapest of TVs. And many older console used this as their primary output. The selector switches for it can still be found and for extremely cheaply.

Composite has its purposes. It may just be a slight step up from coax, but it's everywhere. But S-Video is almost there as well, can more easily be spliced to either SCART or composite if needed, and just as small connector-wise.

 

[Abaddon666]

Hello to everyone, first post here

I surely hope that at *least* S-video is available at least through some sort of connector even if optional. Composite is total lowest quality crap with tons of color bleeding, dot crawl, noise and poor contrast. It is absolute poke-your-eyes-out-with-a-hot-poker rubbish, arrgh.

100% agreed, composite nowadays is complete BS.
I hope for a solution like it's done in commercial Consoles since the PSX or even Super NES: A built-in socket
which can deliver all sorts of output (composite, s-video, rgb, etc.) and separately sold cables for the output you need. I don't know if this could lead to problems considering costs and space on the board, but I could as well live without TV out if it only composite was available.
It would also be a requirement to make scaling and positioning of the displayed area possible via software, GPH made almost every mistake one could have made regarding TV Out on the GP2X.

Greetz,
Abaddon666

 

[Squidge]

Looking at the omap specs, if you don't want composite, it would probably be relatively easy to support vga and dvi outputs. You would then need external hardware to convert these to something a standard TV can use. These are cheap enough however - about £15 - £20.

The end result is that there would then be a cheap/free solution - Composite, and a slightly more expensive but quality solution - RGB/VGA/DVI.

Just look at what the PSP has to put up with

 

[X-Code]

What is a PSP? :lol:


I like the RGB/VGA/DVI idea


Edit:

Donate you greedy little cappuccinos, there is time!!! ( ok, the cappuccino part was a joke, don't monkey around )
http://www.justgiving.com/craigix

 

[Julius]

DVI (which can be very cheaply converted to VGA) would absolutly rock!

 

[Rivroner]

I think a quality TV-out is basic, RGB must be the minimun quality output

VGA will be great