Our New Machine, Pandora

[KeyboardCowboy]

Actually those 500mhz processors are usually Xscale processors which are equivelent to a 250mhz ARM9.

How are they equalivelent? Are you refering to it being so called "dual core".
(i dont know much about handheld processors )
True ARM9 processors are approximately twice as powerful per MHz than XScale-architecture processors. They also consume dramatically less power. XScale effectively just takes a very old ARM architecture Intel won in a legal battle, adds some additional controllers, things like MPEG-decoder hardware et al, and ramps up the clock speed to improve the performance. (It doesn't go very well; often overclocking an XScale processor reduces performance on PDAs.)

No, they just suck (welcome to Intel mucking stuff up again!!).

Intel makes processors with all sorts of weird architecture just to sustain a high-clockspeed and try to hide major deficiencies of their design and get people to buy with a high-clock-speed advertising.

This was true of the previous generation of Intel desktop processors (Pentium 4/D) however isn't true of the Core series of processors. XScale only performs effectively at very high clockrates, so it's not very likely to be a marketing gimmick. It just happens that most people aren't aware a, say, 624 MHz XScale isn't more powerful than a 300 MHz ARM9.

QUOTE
GEODE NX You stupid COCK

Do you have anger management problems?...

 

[predatorramboxxx]

Actually those 500mhz processors are usually Xscale processors which are equivelent to a 250mhz ARM9.

How are they equalivelent? Are you refering to it being so called "dual core".
(i dont know much about handheld processors )

No, they just suck (welcome to Intel mucking stuff up again!!).

Intel makes processors with all sorts of weird architecture just to sustain a high-clockspeed and try to hide major deficiencies of their design and get people to buy with a high-clock-speed advertising.

well running the benchmark program not made by intel says the actual speed and they realy do get 500-624mhz. No handhelds have essentially real dualcore processors iam kinda of tired of hearing about all these processors that they are dual core and so if it is 250 it is really 500 it is NOT a common misconception.

 

[lubidog]

I guess my 2 cents are just that we need to remember that specs aren't everything.

Try saying that to Stevie Wonder.

 

[sam fisher]

I dont really see the point of this system right now. Their are virtually multiple devices that have what people are looking for such as 500+ mhz, running windows ce (which is very good for making programs/emulators), have a graphic cards like the intel 2700, have keyboards/touchscreen, wifi, and have plenty of nand for under 400 USD and have virtually thousands of programs/emualtors/apps.

I think it's because most of them don't have great controls for gaming, nor dedicated devs to optimise/create programs specifically for that device. And it sounds like this will be half the cost.

I have seen people using bluetooth game controls but you are right most don't have a decidated dpad or game controls.

Actually those 500mhz processors are usually Xscale processors which are equivelent to a 250mhz ARM9.

Well, when the EEE PC from ASUS drops for under $300 we will see a turning point. 2-4GB of onboard storage, mobile P!!! chips, 800x480, etc etc.

I have to say that I need a laptop more than I need a gaming console (not to mention that a laptop like the EEE pc is going to do a better job of emulating or even full-on PC gaming than any handheld, it has specs to play Halo for Chrissake's, and at under 2LBs it is a real choice. If I transform it into a Tablet and integrate a D-Pad into it won't it be a handheld??)

The EEE pc has a HORRENDOUSLY cut down celeron based core in it. It has a miniscule cache. The other one, the green one, has a far superior AMD processor. The one laptop for all one.

Actually those 500mhz processors are usually Xscale processors which are equivelent to a 250mhz ARM9.

How are they equalivelent? Are you refering to it being so called "dual core".
(i dont know much about handheld processors )

No, they just suck (welcome to Intel mucking stuff up again!!).

Intel makes processors with all sorts of weird architecture just to sustain a high-clockspeed and try to hide major deficiencies of their design and get people to buy with a high-clock-speed advertising.

well running the benchmark program not made by intel says the actual speed and they realy do get 500-624mhz. No handhelds have essentially real dualcore processors iam kinda of tired of hearing about all these processors that they are dual core and so if it is 250 it is really 500 it is NOT a common misconception.

No you idiot, you misunderstand completely. A 500mhz Xscale CPU, at 500mhz, will only execute code as fast as a 250mhz ARM9 CPU at 250mhz. Understand?

 

[KeyboardCowboy]

well running the benchmark program not made by intel says the actual speed and they realy do get 500-624mhz. No handhelds have essentially real dualcore processors iam kinda of tired of hearing about all these processors that they are dual core and so if it is 250 it is really 500 it is NOT a common misconception.

The chips do truly run at those frequencies and are not dual-core parts. However, at say, 624 Mhz the chips perform only as fast as a 312 MHz ARM9 processor. A decent analogy would be if you hired 2 employees, one worked longer hours and got less work done (624 MHz XScale) vs. one who works half a day but gets twice the work done (ARM).

In addition numerous handheld devices do have dual-core processors. The most common example of this is PDAs with the Texas Instruments OMAP2 chipset series, which feature a powerful programmable DSP to supplement the ARM9 processor. Many also contain a VFP9 vector/floating point unit which is essentially a second ARM9 processor core acting as a math coprocessor.

No you idiot, you misunderstand completely. A 500mhz Xscale CPU, at 500mhz, will only execute code as fast as a 250mhz ARM9 CPU at 250mhz. Understand?

Cutting him down like that isn't going to make him understand better, it's just going to promote animosity and spark a flamewar. I don't expect everyone to come into a thread about a gaming handheld with a thorough grasp of microprocessor theory.

 

[predatorramboxxx]

Well, when the EEE PC from ASUS drops for under $300 we will see a turning point. 2-4GB of onboard storage, mobile P!!! chips, 800x480, etc etc.

I have to say that I need a laptop more than I need a gaming console (not to mention that a laptop like the EEE pc is going to do a better job of emulating or even full-on PC gaming than any handheld, it has specs to play Halo for Chrissake's, and at under 2LBs it is a real choice. If I transform it into a Tablet and integrate a D-Pad into it won't it be a handheld??)
[/quote]
The EEE pc has a HORRENDOUSLY cut down celeron based core in it. It has a miniscule cache. The other one, the green one, has a far superior AMD processor. The one laptop for all one.
[/quote]


its only 200 bucks..it is not a very good proccesor but it is a great for linux and websurfing. It will be able to run xp and will be able to play any game made before 2001ish and will run dosbox great. The screen is 7inches i wonder how big the laptop thing will be. If it will be able to fit in your large pockets that would be great but i doubt it.

 

[jbrodack]

*getting flashback of xgp talks*

Im not saying this machine won't happen just that discussion seems to turn ugly when talking about a machine that doesn't exist yet.

 

[nubie]

QUOTE
GEODE NX You stupid COCK

Do you have anger management problems?...

Yes, and just re-read the post, you were wrong, admit it.

K7 Geodes do exist, now clap your feet together and say there is no place like home.

Edit: This is from the Wiki page I qouted above, I purposely mentioned the NX and GX where different, it still didn't' stop that knee jerk typing problem you have(you just kept typing even though you had clearly never heard of the K7 NX) :
"Geode NX processors are "100 percent socket and chipset compatible" with AMD's "Socket A" Athlon XP processors"

Not @ KC:

There is nothing wrong with a Celeron in a $200 PC, you can't buy a OLPC btw, they aren't going to be commercially available.

and it is the P3 Mobile Celeron, which is a good core at 900Mhz.

 

[sam fisher]

Oh, this machine currently exists. The Craiginator, as I have dubbed it, has been in the pipeline for a while....

 

[nubie]

I don't expect everyone to come into a thread about a gaming handheld with a thorough grasp of microprocessor theory.

Ha, ha, ha, ha :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

That is a good one, a guy complaining about MP theory and can't even stop to accept a simple Geode NX based on a 7 watt K7 core because it doesn't fit with his "60-watt" claims, nice, really nice.

I expect a guy to come into a thread and at least listen to what was said in it. Please give it a shot.

 

[quartercast]

I guess my 2 cents are just that we need to remember that specs aren't everything.

Try saying that to Stevie Wonder.



That, is pure class! :lol:

 

[KeyboardCowboy]

I have to say that I need a laptop more than I need a gaming console (not to mention that a laptop like the EEE pc is going to do a better job of emulating or even full-on PC gaming than any handheld, it has specs to play Halo for Chrissake's, and at under 2LBs it is a real choice. If I transform it into a Tablet and integrate a D-Pad into it won't it be a handheld??)

The EEE PC does not have "specs to run Halo". That title ran poorly on PCs with 1.5 GHz+ processors, 1GB of RAM or more, and GF5/equivalent Radeon series GPUs. That system utilizes simple onboard Intel graphics meant for basic productivity/business use and not much else. Generally Intel onboard graphics are only about as powerful as a GeForce 2 and therefore not suited to modern games.

Even a 2lb. handheld would be extremely cumbersome. In fact 1lb. will still make your hands tired very quickly. The original Nintendo DS didn't weigh a full pound to my recollection, yet it was extremely uncomfortable to hold for any extended length of time.

This really isn't the matter up for discussion though; we're not talking about a PC, so I'm just going to drop it.

 

[quartercast]

I'm still obsessed with the expansion card concept. I wish there existed a PCMCIA-like standard in a form factor for smaller handheld devices. Does this already exist? I've googled around a bit but haven't come up with anything <_<

Well, the new ExpressCard interface has 1/2 width cards and uses both the USB 2.0 and the PCI-E interfaces, we could possibly put a port supporting the USB 2.0 1/2 width ExpressCards. EDIT: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExpressCard

Although I would be happy enough with all of the pins on any given processor that could be of use being open on a header or at least a solder pad trace for the internal hackers out there.

That is one of the major problems with the GP2X, a very full-featured chip hampered by a BGA package with some of the coolest interfaces unhackable (Touch-Screen, IDE, Camera interfaces, etc) .


Thanx for the info!! For the purpose of futureproofing, me want an ExpressCard slot for 'Our New Machine'. Preferably an ExpressCard 34:

*Searches for current ExpressCard devices available...*

 

[nubie]

I have to say that I need a laptop more than I need a gaming console (not to mention that a laptop like the EEE pc is going to do a better job of emulating or even full-on PC gaming than any handheld, it has specs to play Halo for Chrissake's, and at under 2LBs it is a real choice. If I transform it into a Tablet and integrate a D-Pad into it won't it be a handheld??)

The EEE PC does not have "specs to run Halo". That title ran poorly on PCs with 1.5 GHz+ processors, 1GB of RAM or more, and GF5/equivalent Radeon series GPUs. That system utilizes simple onboard Intel graphics meant for basic productivity/business use and not much else. Generally Intel onboard graphics are only about as powerful as a GeForce 2 and therefore not suited to modern games.

Riight, I must be wrong in assuming that Halo ran on an Xbox with a 733mhz Celeron and a Geforce3.

And it was further funny that you brought up the Geforce2, I have played Halo on a Geforce2, it worked fine btw.

You seem to have forgotten that you are still wrong about the 1Ghz K7 core Geode that runs at under 10-watts, and how it made your "60-watt" claims look really un-informed.

 

[jbrodack]

well I would assume its not beyond prototype phase yet. and if it is then pretty much everything has already been decided about it and nothing we say could change it. and in that case some more info would help as speculating leads to everyone thinking they know what the best hardware choices would be which leads to passionate arguments about which hardware would be better which leads to flame wars about about someone being stupid cause they didn't know some obscure fact about some piece of hardware.

 

[KeyboardCowboy]

Riight, I must be wrong in assuming that Halo ran on an Xbox with a 733mhz Celeron and a Geforce3.

And it was further funny that you brought up the Geforce2, I have played Halo on a Geforce2, it worked fine btw.

As have I; it ran quite poorly at anything but the lowest settings, and a low screen resolution. While the original Xbox version ran on a 733 MHz Celeron and a GF3-based GPU, the PC version was dramatically less optimized and had terrible performance considering. The same is the case with the Halo 2 PC port which requires dramatically more powerful PC hardware to run effectively. Not very good ports.

You seem to have forgotten that you are still wrong about the 1Ghz K7 core Geode that runs at under 10-watts, and how it made your "60-watt" claims look really un-informed.

I have not forgotten anything. You are correct that the K7 based and quite low-power. However I stand by my statement 7-14W (10W would fall in this range) is too much power draw for a CPU alone, in a handheld application with a small capacity Lithium Ion battery. In a notebook PC it would make more sense, but with so many other components still needed to form a well-rounded system (much more is drawing power than the CPU-- GPU, potential FPU, LCD backlight, numerous controllers for audio, I/O, LCD control, etc.) any CPU that on its own consumes >1W is best avoided.

I'm not here to try and make you look bad, so there is no need for the defensive reactions and battling for ground. Let's try to discuss this on a mature level if at all possible, or we'll soon have a repeat of the last thread or those awful XGP threads.

 

[nubie]

Thank you for coming forward, I too agree that low screen resolutions are best, and would you not agree that 640x480 is a low screen resolution?? As it happens to be the native resolution of the EEE PC I simply thought that it would work. I am probably right too.

I am curious why you don't just make your own hand-held if everyone is beneath you?? Maybe personally write or phone someone who is involved with the development.

Hang out on IRC maybe and discuss it with the guys on that channel.

Anyways, all of this aside, there is no perfect handheld, but a more community focused GP style device based on an MMSP2+ can only be better in my opinion.

I know all of your sentiments, but the MMSP2+ is fine for an obscure, low-cost hand-held that cost's under $200.

All I am saying is that an EEE PC may satisfy more of the people on here who want full N64 emulation in a portable form (I know I do), and as well the people wanting to browse with Wifi, perhaps they simply need a laptop and can't afford one for $400-600?

I know the "used laptop" bit is thrown around, show me a nice Celeron (P3 based) lappy on a 7" screen for $200-300 that weighs 2 LB's and I will buy it. SSD hard drive and 3 USB included just cinched it for me, as did the SD card slot.

 

[quartercast]

well I would assume its not beyond prototype phase yet. and if it is then pretty much everything has already been decided about it and nothing we say could change it. and in that case some more info would help as speculating leads to everyone thinking they know what the best hardware choices would be which leads to passionate arguments about which hardware would be better which leads to flame wars about about someone being stupid cause they didn't know some obscure fact about some piece of hardware.

Actually, the developers have said previously that they appreciate our input and discussions. Unfortunately, it appears that a few people posting on this thread are very proud of themselves - and this pride/stubbornness is sparking personality clashes amongst posters. I suppose heated discussion is part of human nature :rolleyes:

 

[nubie]

well I would assume its not beyond prototype phase yet. and if it is then pretty much everything has already been decided about it and nothing we say could change it. and in that case some more info would help as speculating leads to everyone thinking they know what the best hardware choices would be which leads to passionate arguments about which hardware would be better which leads to flame wars about about someone being stupid cause they didn't know some obscure fact about some piece of hardware.

Actually, the developers have said previously that they appreciate our input and discussions. Unfortunately, it appears that a few people posting on this thread are very proud of themselves - and this pride/stubbornness is sparking personality clashes amongst posters. I suppose heated discussion is part of human nature :rolleyes:

yes, sorry for blowing off steam like that.

I am also adding positively, it gets lost in the overtly technical waters.

My top picks/needs:

Internal expansion of some type (even a recessed USB socket that can swallow a Wifi stick without a cover on it can qualify)

USB native support onboard, (enough to run a keyboard and a Targus Mini-Mouse, trust me, the Targus and the GP2X went well together, except for the klunky interface.)

MMSP2+ if you can.

 

[TyBO!]

I have to say that I need a laptop more than I need a gaming console

This sentence got me thinking, I wonder if someone could port OpenOffice (link) to the new device. The touch-screen is perfect for simulating a mouse, and with a built-in keyboard, you could easily edit documents on it.