Our New Machine, Pandora

[yannv]

Why not irda? It could be used under UART and the hardware cost can be quite small. Please think that the irda could be used for IR remote controlling too.
No, SIR can't. CIR can, and is a bit simpler, but both are fairly expensive to implement, remote sending being the cheapest IR option. Reception is done with a modulation decoder IC, and as there are readymade USB dongles for this task the option hardware is already around. This also requires an external window. I wouldn't mind the feature, but mind the cost. The UART itself is already connected by the headset port, so that would be the place for a Pandora specific IrDA dongle.

QUOTE
What about multitouch screen like the iPhone? That could make possible very creative games, and games like ScummVM having a quite interesting control way.
Patented, expensive, and I don't know how hard to get. The current screen has been selected for availability, and has excellent resolution. I do want to know if it's 24 or 18 bit.

QUOTE
Why having a keyboard? I think a multi-touch screen can substitute the keyboard and even being faster to type than a tiny one.
Possibly, if you have a multitouch screen big enough to do virtual keyboard, show where you're typing, and fit both hands. That leads to a device of another type entirely.

QUOTE
Why not Bluetooth? It could be quite interesting for stuff like: earphones, connecting to a cell phone, GPS, a wiimote for using it on the TV...
This feature I'd love, and I wonder of the cost. How expensive is the BlueLink family, which the OMAP3430 is meant to connect to? Again, USB dongles do cover it, but lately I've gotten devices for both IrDA and Bluetooth and the latter is what I found myself using. If there's space, perhaps it could be planned as an internal addon.

QUOTE
It will have DVI/RGB/VGA output? useful for connecting it to classic CRT, computer monitor or the expensive TVs named HDTV.
This feature I'd like too, but again it requires external components. The OMAP3430 does have video output capabilities but using it for external RGB would probably mean switching the internal screen off, and adding DACs. I can't confirm exactly because I don't have the datasheets nor Pandora design. The S-Video DAC is built in, so not using it would just be a waste.

QUOTE
Will be hack-friendly? I mean a port for connecting hacky stuff as an arcade joystick easily, but I think USB can do this easily with some kind of microcontroller board.
Yes, USB is usable for this. I'm experimenting with an AT90USB chip myself.

QUOTE
It will be possible to add devices to the SDHC ports? Like whatever kind of devices as GPS, Digital radio/tv receiver...
I'd be surprised if either port was designed not to do SDIO. The OMAP3430 has two SDIO connections, but one is probably dedicated to the WLAN support.

QUOTE
Will finally be able to emulate GP32 and GP2X easily or just a thinking about possibilities of the future? It could be very interesting to run those software that never will be ported to Pandora, at least officially.
I don't think you'd emulate those. They're both running slower ARM Linux systems, so it's probably a simple matter of some library wrappers just to enlarge the display for most programs.

 

[cappuchok]

In Europe almost every TV sold is RGB compatible, even old CRT 4:3 ones, so I'm certainly hoping Craigix and the team will include RGB (it's also the most authentic way of running MAME on European TV sets). RGB is for SDTV only, not HDTV. For that, you need DVI or HDMI. VGA or DVI-I would be a nice touch though.

Yeah, but then won't all of us USers be stuck with a SCART thing? Or were you thinking of an adapter?

I'm thinking perhaps something similar to those multiformat S-video squid connectors can be used. Then an additional adapter would be required to go from that to a regular SCART connector but it would allow you, depending on the output frequencies and sync methods, to convert those RGB wires to pretty much any RGB connector you'd like, such as SCART, or the RGB connections used in old arcade monitors, or even a VGA or Amiga monitor. Plus you'd have all sorts of other signals on other wires as well, like S-Video and Composite.

C'mon, we can dream, OK?

 

[magicman5421]

I don't see why all of you guys are moaning about "oh what if i push some buttons on the keyboard while i'm gaming..." Unless you have buttons mapped to the specific keyboard keys you're accidentally hitting, what do you think it's gonna do? Explode? And say you do have keys mapped to the keyboard where you're hitting them. It doesn't take a genius to figure out how to map them somewhere where you won't accidentally hit them.
No offense.

By the way, to craigix and co, good job and keep up the hard work!

 

[cowai]

I don't see why all of you guys are moaning about "oh what if i push some buttons on the keyboard while i'm gaming..." Unless you have buttons mapped to the specific keyboard keys you're accidentally hitting, what do you think it's gonna do? Explode? And say you do have keys mapped to the keyboard where you're hitting them. It doesn't take a genius to figure out how to map them somewhere where you won't accidentally hit them.
No offense.

By the way, to craigix and co, good job and keep up the hard work!

2nd.

 

[quote]

I don't see why all of you guys are moaning about "oh what if i push some buttons on the keyboard while i'm gaming..." Unless you have buttons mapped to the specific keyboard keys you're accidentally hitting, what do you think it's gonna do? Explode? And say you do have keys mapped to the keyboard where you're hitting them. It doesn't take a genius to figure out how to map them somewhere where you won't accidentally hit them.
No offense.

By the way, to craigix and co, good job and keep up the hard work!



My thoughts exactly, 3rd

 

[trooper]

I don't see why all of you guys are moaning about "oh what if i push some buttons on the keyboard while i'm gaming..." Unless you have buttons mapped to the specific keyboard keys you're accidentally hitting, what do you think it's gonna do? Explode? And say you do have keys mapped to the keyboard where you're hitting them. It doesn't take a genius to figure out how to map them somewhere where you won't accidentally hit them.
No offense.

By the way, to craigix and co, good job and keep up the hard work!

Fourthted. :rolleyes:

Trooper

 

[atomicthumbs]

I don't see why all of you guys are moaning about "oh what if i push some buttons on the keyboard while i'm gaming..." Unless you have buttons mapped to the specific keyboard keys you're accidentally hitting, what do you think it's gonna do? Explode? And say you do have keys mapped to the keyboard where you're hitting them. It doesn't take a genius to figure out how to map them somewhere where you won't accidentally hit them.
No offense.

By the way, to craigix and co, good job and keep up the hard work!

5'd

 

[Yuglooc]

I don't see why all of you guys are moaning about "oh what if i push some buttons on the keyboard while i'm gaming..." Unless you have buttons mapped to the specific keyboard keys you're accidentally hitting, what do you think it's gonna do? Explode? And say you do have keys mapped to the keyboard where you're hitting them. It doesn't take a genius to figure out how to map them somewhere where you won't accidentally hit them.
No offense.

By the way, to craigix and co, good job and keep up the hard work!

Man, I wasn't going too...but oh well. Sixthed!

 

[supaimposter]

Well i hated the overall design of the Pandora when screen shots were first released but i have to say sorry to Craig and co , this machine is realy growing on me i think the clam shell is the only way to go as it stops the lovely screen from being scratched and the keyboard/joypad/analog sticks/ and buttons layout seems realy well thought out.
I look forward to using the only handheld that will be capable of emulating Amiga/PSX/SNES/ and a whole host of other great machines.
I admit i was wrong and may have been to quick to judge the Pandora

Just hope the build quality is good

 

[3Designer]

Wouldn't perhaps a design something like this be more user-friendly and more successfull qua sales? http://homepromotion.nl/Portable.html

I think the current design looks a bit 80's, especially not credible for a portable with such specs.
Don't think it will sell very well to people outside the current niche market of the gp2x.
Also the analogs look to be a little unhandy. And I'm sure a protection case/bag or something can solve the protecting of the screen.

Anyway I doubt the masses will be buying it like this considering the designs of modern smartphones etc. and the fact most people don't have any insight in how good the specs are and often judge products like this by their design

 

[icurafu]

I think a slideout keyboard is out of the question due to patents.

But nice renders. I still prefer the current design.

 

[spamme]

Wouldn't perhaps a design something like this be more user-friendly and more successfull qua sales? http://homepromotion.nl/Portable.html

I think the current design looks a bit 80's, especially not credible for a portable with such specs.
Don't think it will sell very well to people outside the current niche market of the gp2x.
Also the analogs look to be a little unhandy. And I'm sure a protection case/bag or something can solve the protecting of the screen.

Anyway I doubt the masses will be buying it like this considering the designs of modern smartphones etc. and the fact most people don't have any insight in how good the specs are and often judge products like this by their design



That design looks awesome! On the bottom, it doesn't have to be a slide out keyboard, we can attach a keyboard, it would be such a perfect spot! Although it seems like some people dont like the idea of detachable keyboards

 

[Turnip]

Is it still on schedule for release this spring?

 

[cappuchok]

I think the current design looks a bit 80's, especially not credible for a portable with such specs.
...
Anyway I doubt the masses will be buying it like this considering the designs of modern smartphones etc. and the fact most people don't have any insight in how good the specs are and often judge products like this by their design

One word: NDS. It looks like an early Game&Watch (which is to say, very much 80's) but even average joes are still buying it and it's probably as popular if not more so than the PSP, because it's so powerful and easy to use (and doesn't require hacking to run homebrew), Nintendo has quite obviously gone for functionality over design on the NDS and it turned out people liked it and that even average users are in fact able to see beyond the 80's design thing and buy it on account of it's capabilities.

Now it would seem that everything the NDS can do, the Pandora will be able to do better, just from looking at the specs. I agree with many users here on some points, the touchscreen might be impractical on the top half of the device, and connectors might be better placed on the back (esp. the A/C jack) thus moving SD slots to the front or sides.

But I try to keep in mind that this will be so much more than a handheld gaming device, it will be a fully-equipped handheld Linux laptop and possibly the first device truly deserving of being called "ultra-mobile PC". The fact that it has a control layout focused on gaming doesn't detract from it's other functions and I would choose this over a PDA-capable NDS any day.

 

[3Designer]

@ Cappuchok

In comparing the Pandora to the DS you are forgetting that the DS is a very different product. The DS is designed to look like a fun product for an affordable price. The PSP on the other hand is designed to look more expensive and high-tech for consumers that want graphics and more serious games.

When you go out to buy even a can of limonade, you will prefer a cheaper type or a more expensive brand type (that you expect to have a better taste). Ever noticed the fact that the cheaper ones also look cheap while it wouldn't make any difference for the producer to make the package look better. But they don't make it look better because you expect the cheaper limonade to be in a cheaper looking can. Different brands with different prices of chewing gum are mostly actually made by the same producer with allmost the exact same ingredients. They just give the more expensive ones a more expensive looking package and make the cheaper ones taste a bit less.

On another level the same goes for the Pandora. When the average Joe wants to buy a high tech portable and spend 300 dollars to "have the ultimate game experience" (can't believe that kind of marketing lines actually work on people) and show off with it he doesn't expect it to look cheap and low-budget. That just isn't credible to most people. The average Joe has no idea of how good the specifications really are and will judge this from what he hears in the media, what other people tell him, and all together they will judge it for a big part on "how cool it's design is", rather than if he can overclock it to 1Ghz.

All together you have to conclude that in order to market a high-tech ultra fast 300 dollar portable system it also has to look like a high-tech ultra fast 300 dollar portable system in order to persuade people to buy it. Do you think the I-Phone would sell well if it had the same specifications and functionality but it had a gameboy color retro design?

And if you want to market it as a fully-equipped handheld Linux laptop give it the form of a mini laptop but then with a cool design with (unexpensive to add) shiny patterns and stuff like HP does: http://www.hardware.info/images/news/hp_pa...n_dv2600_se.jpg

And about the functionality you are contradicting yourself cause you allready mentioned the impractical position of the touchscreen Imagine for example playing an RTS with a PSP-like design and moving the screen with the dpad (while holding the system) and controlling your units with a pen on the touchscreen. Or playing shooters with your hands not allmost clammed together as in the current design.

I would like to add to this that I am just giving critics as a positive contribution and I really like the idea of this and wished that I was in the position of making a device like this and put it on the market (and bash nintendo, sony and perhaps some big pda companies). And I hope Craig and his team will consider the things i mentioned atleast.

 

[cappuchok]

In comparing the Pandora to the DS you are forgetting that the DS is a very different product. The DS is designed to look like a fun product for an affordable price. The PSP on the other hand is designed to look more expensive and high-tech for consumers that want graphics and more serious games.

No need to start a flame war here.

I was merely pointing out that the DS, while being certainly the most popular handheld right now, has a really ancient (80's Game&Watch) design and still sells incredibly well despite this. The price of both consoles (DS and PSP) is the same here so choice comes down to priorities, not cost. Most of my average non-geek friends chose the DS and over the PSP because of technical reasons that they have figured out themselves: the DS is a powerful (although less so than the PSP, admittedly) and easy to use system and because it's backwards-compatible (and has many native commercial ports of old favourites) and also doesn't require hacking to run homebrew apps and backups. Many also cite the PSP's ghosted LCD and impractical form factor (drop it in a pocket for button-mashing screen-scratching fun ) as a major reason for choosing the DS instead - so even despite the PSP's flashy good looks, the DS does appeal to (at least some) average users not because it's cheaper and has a more "fun" image, but because they find the DS design more practical (the clamshell protects the screen and controls) and the system as a whole easier to work with (since you don't have to risk bricking the device to run homebrew apps on it).
Also, I can assure you that had the PSP had a clamshell form factor, a more responsive screen, and a homebrew-friendly system software, most of my non-geek friends would choose it instantly because of it's (in relation to NDS) superior processing power (since the price is the same). So looks isn't everything. Specs go a long way even with non-geek users (but I'll grant you, in the general population there are more average lusers than average users, and the former might really not look beyond flashy exterior design).

I did not say the Pandora is better designed control-wise than the DS, I only meant to reference it's superior technical specifications (hence, anything the DS can do (in terms of emulation and software) the Pandora will do better (technically), though controls may leave something to be desired).

 

[timofonic]

I know ScummVM is a interpreter, just a typo. I meant games like the ones in ScummVM.

It's a shame about the patenting on multi-touch screens. So new mobiles like the LG ones pays the patent to who? Apple?

About the AV output, maybe adding the digital rgb could make sense. Then converting the DVI or whatever to analog RGB could be possible with some kind of chip in a external case.

Will support the latest wifi? I mean 802.11n.

What about Ethernet? Contrary to popular fashion, I find using wireless a security problem and having certain disadvantages compared to the wired way. I use it in certain environments but not in home generally.

Does it have trigger buttons? I mean the "L" and "R".

Why just four buttons instead six? This could better for arcades and some systems, and using trigger buttons is tricky for certain games. Why not making fire buttons bigger and a bit more separated? My strong "NERDanderthal" hands suffer when trying to push tiny buttons in a repetitive way, I also use a clicky IBM Model M keyboard (it's an old school mechanical-like keyboard with big keys, the best one I tried ever) for avoid to suffering pain in my hands. I have finger pain problems with tiny + style d-pads like the Dreamcast one too, I prefer bigger ones like those found on Sega Saturn pads.

So then, is Pandora physical design having in consideration the ergonomics of hands? Will the work be reviewed by experts in the matter? I find this part potentially important and I think should be taken into high consideration, I talked with people (not knowledge about ergonomics) and some of them said that the Pandora design is not comfortable to use.

 

[StealthBagel]

I think a slideout keyboard is out of the question due to patents.

Just like how no device on the market can have a dpad due to patents except-- almost any gaming device invented since the dawn of time... just making a point. I don't think this device even needs, nor should have, a keyboard. But if it must it should at least give the option to swivel the LCD over it so it's not in my way.

 

[vampire8bit]

I like the having the keyboard now, didn't at first but then I realised it'll be great for emulation of Computers of the 80s and ST,amiga dosbox, scummvm etc. I think the design of pandora looks retro, something from the 1980s (which is what I really like) so it will be great for emulation of computers, The white version looks especially retro but i hope it can be released as the same colour as Amiga and C64.

However I hope something can be done to "hide" the keyboard; slide or swivel (like tablet etc. that have been discussed ) for emulation of console systems and mame as a keyboard showing will not make it look like a handheld console/arcade system, but a sort of very small computer.

 

[Shiny]

Why does everybody want to hide the keyboard?
Wouldn't it make more sense if it was out in the open to quickly load a save state, type a quick message, etc.?