Our New Machine, Pandora

[StealthBagel]

Everyone will want this device for different reasons.... Me, I want something with the robust variety of emulators the gp2x boasted but with good controls, not the awful f100/f200 ones, better battery life and an overall more professional design... good solid PDA functionality so I can carry less devices around (no need to keep my PocketPC with me), MP3 playback (I don't really care about video on a small screen) so with a big enough SD card, I'd likely be able to leave my iPod in my car. If this is too heavy I might still need the iPod jogging though...

Things I don't expect are for it to be amazing for internet use; handheld devices rarely are and if it can get online and be convenient to surf with, well that's a bonus. I'm not going to start making ridiculous claims like that the machine won't sell to anyone if it doesn't act as a DVD player (?!) with a remote control (?!!?!?!) There are lots of people who bought GP32 and GP2X and more people today than ever who surf geeky blogs and buy devices like this just because they're gadget freaks, so the device will have a market besides people who want to play emulators. But don't make it out to be something insanely outlandish.

Example, VOIP-- why would you seriously need this functionality SO BADLY on the go? So you can sit at an internet cafe and bother people around you talking loudly to your family or friends far away? Or for talking to people nearby, why wouldn't you use a cell phone? At home, a landline or your home PC? It just doesn't make much sense at all...

 

[sandaili]

There are two reasons I am not considering the craiginator. One is the outrageous price tag, something that I believe will keep the dev scene on this thing to a bare minimum. Second is the name, honestly, the craiginator? Are you guys trying to get me to take this system seriously? Why not get a name that shows you are serious? I'm not paying 400 dollars for a system with a name like that, sorry. Oh, and one more thing, there is this line you are approaching, that upon crossing, you enter into the realm of pc. I already have a pc, and I already can play amazing 3d games on it. Making the margin between your home pc and your portable system smaller only seems to hinder the creativity from my point of view. Part of the joy of working on a handheld system is creating handheld games, just taking concepts from consoles and implementing them simply because you would like to emulate them doesn't seem like a good driving factor in determining the development of an open system in my opinion (I say this because that IS what is driving these decisions. I have yet to see a homebrew game for the 2x that felt constrained by the hardware, most of the software falling into that category of being held back by the hardware is emulators). So the hardware isn't being pushed by homebrew games, it is being pushed by homebrew emulators, and while I see these emulators as a godsend for the gp2x, I'm not that disappointed to see that I can't run psx or n64 games, cause honestly I've been enjoying trudging through the stockpiles of homebrewed games and applications for this thing. Maybe you dev's out there are really just dying to get some dedicated 3d hardware or something, but why? If it's gonna raise the price of entry by some 240 dollars, I think I'll just stick to my pc to get my 3d kicks.

One, Craiginator is just the code name, it will have a different name.

Can you walk around with your PC? No.

I don't think the majority of the community here is into homebrew. It's just an added extra, IMO. I think the majority of people here want to run full speed emulators such as Mame and others that currently can not run at full speed, or are not updated. Personally I could care less about emulating 3D.....

And again, what the hell is wrong with prices? So.....let's see. You would spend 240 on it but no more. Imagine this: SAVING UP LONGER FOR SOMETHING. Big fucking deal. I'm tired of all the "I will buy it if it's only this much." Well guess what, you don't really want it at any price then, really. Be honest.

Sandaili

I am going to eat peanut butter and jelly sandwiches for months if that's what it takes to afford the Craiginator. But I don't think I'm going to have to do that.

And I suppose it is only fair us Americans get to pay a larger sum than the Brits for electronics once or twice in our lifetimes. Even if it's not much more

Why can`t the rest of you americans take this sort of attitude that Senor Quack has ?. As has been said, The FULL specs have not been revealed for this machine yet, But people (Mostly the americans on here) continue to moan about the price, When they don`t actually really know what they will be getting for their money. Just give the guys who are developing this machine a chance to reveal more details of the spec before wingeing about the price, Please.

Trooper


I didn't realize it was only Americans bitching...

I'm an American....and I'm not bitching.

Sandaili

 

[MWeston]

quick question: have you guys looked into led backlighting for this thing? none of that fancy rgb stuff, just a basic white. i have no idea of the bulk pricing on such components but the heat and power reduction would certainly be welcome.

What do you mean? for the LCD? the backlighting is LED, draws about 600mW when fully cranked up. It is a very bright and a gorgeous screen so it will be easy to keep it turned down to save battery life.

Do you mean for the QWERTY keypad? That is something we are deciding on and I welcome opinions. Is it necessary? could be costly for a low volume device and draws more power too.

 

[prairiefire]

Example, VOIP-- why would you seriously need this functionality SO BADLY on the go? So you can sit at an internet cafe and bother people around you talking loudly to your family or friends far away? Or for talking to people nearby, why wouldn't you use a cell phone? At home, a landline or your home PC? It just doesn't make much sense at all...

this point is interesting to me. I'm curious where our other posters are from in this case because in Canada, we get screwed for cell phone usage. If i'm not in my local area, it's a long distance call to receive and long distance to call out if i'm not calling a person within the area i'm currently located. If I am in my local area, any calls made to people outside that area are also a long distance call ($0.25 - $0.30/min! and rounded up to the next minute). It's really easy to rack up $20/month in long distance calls using a cell phone (my sole phone atm) and the reason I have a cell instead of a landline is because when i'm at home I can use VOIP on my computer. Now you don't know everyone's situation about WHERE they would use VOIP, and lets assume that they've justified the usage. From a money perspective, being able to make a free call over one that could cost you a couple of bucks (when considering you might do this often) could be a real asset.

Now, unless i'm mistaken, this should be able to do VOIP assuming that the software is written for it, or say by using gmail via the web on it?

edit: grammar

 

[sandaili]

Surely $320 isn't much at all for most working people is the US anyway? Few days work? Sure it may cut the audience down in the younger members who are asking for it for christmas/birthday or saving, but...

I'd like the Craiginator as planned with all its power. It will be a substantial leap forward in portable, openish, handheld gaming for the first time in years. No I don't count phones or PDAs, I mean things with proper controls! Much more than the GP32-GP2X transition was. I'm actually shocked its so cheap (if it ends up so cheap) given what it is expected to do.

Mark

Well, considering a lot of people here in the US get paid minimum wage of 6.25 to 8.00/hr depending on the state, no, it's not just a couple of days work. But like I said in another post, save up longer....as long as you have to...for something that you want.

Sandaili

For those of us Americans complaining about the price, well that is what we deserve. You voted for a war mongering oil industry president that cares nothing about running up the national debt to record levels to make his cronies rich, and you did it *twice*. Next year when you elect Guiliani it will only get worse. Now you pay the price.

Dude.

Don't lump all Americans into one big mess who voted for Bush. Not everyone did. I didn't. America doesn't really have a choice when it comes to elections. Republicans outnumber democrats, that is all there is to it. This country truly is divided in half by those who hate Bush and those who don't. Please understand that. Just because someone wins an election doesn't mean they won it by a 100% majority or that the ballots even remotely reflect the TRUE America.

Not to get all "paranoid" here but I for one think that when it comes to elections, electric ballot boxes, and the like, there is no way things are not tampered with. It's impossible in this day an age, with the money and connections Bush has.

And let's not forget the other countries around the world with leaders and companies that go hand in hand making money with Bush.

Sandaili

However the longer the "Craiginator" delays the tougher the sell.

Agreed, but the openness of the device will sell to a hardcore audience even if there will something "better" in the market.
Of course the sooner it is launched the more likely it will be a success.

If the first plans of Craig weren't delayed because of all the criticism on the blueprint it could have been a sweet Christmas present.



I really doubt this.

They have already said that it will be a top of the line machine for the next five years, considering what they are putting into it. So, with that said, I want it to take as long as it takes to get it perfect and going. Since it will be top of the line, no matter when it comes out say in six months to a year, it will STILL be top.

Plus, I think a unit will sell on it's own merit. Yeah, they could rush out and sell a bunch in a month or two. But what about testing? Making it great, perfect, etc. GPH gets blamed for bad quality control, bad service, etc. Why is everyone saying that the sooner it comes out, the more likely they are to buy it? Won't that mean that it's less perfect?

They let you know about this to better the unit. I can understand, just from all these posts, why exactly the unit has not had any info come out. Imagine if they gave you a concrete picture, example, whatever. Then when things change, here comes a huge conspiracy theory, or bitching, etc.

I believe that a unit will sell on it's own merit like I said before - people will see what it can do, and even if sales are slow at first - it will be just like the GP2X's - people will ask others what should I buy, what can I do, etc. And then decide for themselves. Just because it's not ready in a month or two, who cares? I just don't understand that logic. "I heard about it and I want it now, otherwise, forget it". If it is as good as everyone says it will be, it will be worth the money, and worth waiting for.....and still be an excellent, top of the line unit.

Sandaili

 

[capnhack]

quick question: have you guys looked into led backlighting for this thing? none of that fancy rgb stuff, just a basic white. i have no idea of the bulk pricing on such components but the heat and power reduction would certainly be welcome.

What do you mean? for the LCD? the backlighting is LED, draws about 600mW when fully cranked up. It is a very bright and a gorgeous screen so it will be easy to keep it turned down to save battery life.

Do you mean for the QWERTY keypad? That is something we are deciding on and I welcome opinions. Is it necessary? could be costly for a low volume device and draws more power too.


yea i just meant for the screen, nice to know its not one of the old power hungry ccfd or whatever ones.

whether its worth it for the keyboard would depend on the type of kb and how its attached to the rest of the case i think. if its a clamshell type that sits at an angle to the screen then the light from that would probably be enough to make the keys visible, but if its parallel with the screen (i would love to have it slide out) or has no embossing on the keys then backlighting would be welcome. a switch in software shouldnt be too hard to add either, so users can turn it on or off at will as well as an autolight and timeout thing if thats worth doing.

 

[zaffercharles]

Do you mean for the QWERTY keypad? That is something we are deciding on and I welcome opinions. Is it necessary? could be costly for a low volume device and draws more power too.

It would be good so long as you can choose to use it or not, but how much added price are we looking at? I'm not sure of what price I'd put on making it worth having one but if I hear an estimate it would help

I'm not worried about the battery life personally, I reckon it will run quite nicely in the first place and we can get a spare battery or two easily enough. The light won't be a necessity but would be a nice addition imo

 

[God Ginrai]

Well, I personally wouldn't need the back-lit keyboard so much, but I could easily see how others would. Anyone who wanted to use a PC emu of some sort while in a dark place would need it, same for browsing the internet or some PDA functions.

The only suggestion I can think of is to come up with some numbers of how much less power we would have because of it and how much more it would cost per unit. Then show us the figures and get a majority opinion.

-God Ginrai

 

[kfuse]

Hmmm...

well I do see VoIP making an impact but still I'd rather see it more as an accessory rather than built in. I mean at its base the craiginator on its own is one tough s.o.b

The extras such as PVR, bluetooth, VoIP, you know all that jazz needs to be done later. I mean damn were at the 320 price tag you know...you add anymore things to it, it will be the ps3 of all handhelds and no one will buy because its too expensive. No i'm not complaining about the price, but seriously extra stuff like this should be considered for the accessory section or things to be done later list...

and if later down the line if craig and crew decide to revamp the base model and build in those extras then they will...for now be happy with the base model and what its going to offer.

Now lets be real...we want this thing for its emulation/homebrew/commercial prospects...yes theres also other outlets but lets be real. we gotta a pretty good community here and I'm pretty sure most will get it for emulation and maybe dev.

 

[Vimacs]

well, a bit of back lighting of the kb would sure be nice, but the question is if anyone would actually need it?
...
I don't think its worth a premium price unless its <10€.
Especially if you can fell the actual keys, you usually don't need to look at them at all.

One thing i would like thou is those little "bumps" on the f and j keys, that would make it easier to type on it when you cant see a thing, and it shouldn't cost anything, would it?

What im more concerned out regarding the kb is the layout, its often quite messed up at small devices, however there are some organizers with a quite nice layout.
It would be great if you could just reach the g/h keys with your thumbs when holding the unit.
Also the placement of space/enter is crucial, i find it quite comfortable when you hit space by just moving your right thumb down, as in for example under the n-m keys.
enter could be above u/i which should also be a very easy reachable spot, or maybe ont he left hand under x/c.

Edit:
Heres a quick mockup of what i think could work quite well:

(9,5*5,4 cm)

Notice how the space/enter/caps/esc(esc seems useless, maybe use something more sensible at that position) keys are in the middle so they are easy to access with the thumbs instead of on the sides where you have a hard time hitting em fast.

 

[Ravnos]

As far as a keyboard goes, the N810 looks like it has a nice one, and so a similar one on this device would be more than sufficient. Bearing in mind Engadget's critique of the N810's keyboard, of course.

QUOTE

Sure, the keys are large, backlit, and far more tactile than on the E90, but the top row is jammed right up against the bottom of the screen, making typing really difficult without keeping your thumbs totally perpendicular to the keyboard. The N810 could really benefit from the room of a few millimeters more slide if you ask us,

 

[atomicthumbs]

RTC = yes!
IrDA = no
Bluetooth = no, but maybe some day if demand is high and we can keep the cost down
Microphone = yes
RS-232 = yes (well, it is CMOS levels, need external converter so actually this is just a UART controller)

Heat your coffee and maybe fry an egg = yes (USB Host can source 500mA @ 5V so you can do it but your battery life will take a hit!)


Uart could be used for development purposes and maybe adding your own remote controller using IR detectors.

The USB Host port is going to have all kinds of versatility since it is powered so the sky is the limit as long as we can get drivers.



YAY!

I see great potential for this thing as a maxicontroller/demonstration device, especially with that UART.

*starts thinking about the Arduino*

 

[atomicthumbs]

quick question: have you guys looked into led backlighting for this thing? none of that fancy rgb stuff, just a basic white. i have no idea of the bulk pricing on such components but the heat and power reduction would certainly be welcome.

What do you mean? for the LCD? the backlighting is LED, draws about 600mW when fully cranked up. It is a very bright and a gorgeous screen so it will be easy to keep it turned down to save battery life.

Do you mean for the QWERTY keypad? That is something we are deciding on and I welcome opinions. Is it necessary? could be costly for a low volume device and draws more power too.


For the keyboard, it would be nice to have if it had a light sensor, or if you could turn it on and off. AND it has to be inexpensive.

Idea: instead of backlighting the keyboard, shine a single (maybe swiveling) LED on it. That would be inexpensive, and it would light the keyboard effectively. Plus, it could be used as a flashlight.

I think that the backlighting for the keyboard would be more of a novelty item, and the LED would be neat and practical.

 

[A_SN]

Hmmm...

well I do see VoIP making an impact but still I'd rather see it more as an accessory rather than built in. I mean at its base the craiginator on its own is one tough s.o.b

The extras such as PVR, bluetooth, VoIP, you know all that jazz needs to be done later. I mean damn were at the 320 price tag you know...you add anymore things to it, it will be the ps3 of all handhelds and no one will buy because its too expensive. No i'm not complaining about the price, but seriously extra stuff like this should be considered for the accessory section or things to be done later list...

and if later down the line if craig and crew decide to revamp the base model and build in those extras then they will...for now be happy with the base model and what its going to offer.

Now lets be real...we want this thing for its emulation/homebrew/commercial prospects...yes theres also other outlets but lets be real. we gotta a pretty good community here and I'm pretty sure most will get it for emulation and maybe dev.

How the hell would VoIP be an "add-on" when it only takes a microphone? A MWeston said it'll have one, so wtf?

As for the switch for the keyboard backlight, I agree. Isn't there such a thing on N800's?

 

[Squidge]

Personally, if I want to play a movie at home, I use the dvd player rather than a portable device with a usb host, power adaptor, bluetooth dongle/etc all dangling of it.

The dvd player comes with it's own remote control, is in a suitable form for placing under the tv, has SD card and USB host sockets for plugging harddrives into, accepts DVD disks as a bonus, and cost about £30. A little cheaper than a £200 Craiginator with ~£50 of required extras.

Yes, the DVD player seems on the surface practical but if you want to play downloaded Divx/Xvid movies, then it won't be too practical to constantly burn CDs or DVDs (even if the DVD player plays DivX/Xvid files). Indeed, there's a great number of people that watch more downloaded movies than DVD movies which, in turn, explains the Archos, Cowon, etc. market.



You obviously didn't read my post properly, or you would have noticed that you don't need to burn CDs or DVDs, as a lot of dvd players now come with USB Host and SD card slots. So to watch a film all you need do is copy your DivX/Xvid files to a USB key/SD card and place that into the DVD player... Some players even come with ethernet and can play files directly from your PC.

For example, a quick googling and I see the following player available for £25 :

• Front USB (Flash and HD compat.) & SD/MMC card reader
• Outputs - HDMI Digital Audio/video,Component-video (P-Scan / Interlaced ), SCART, S-Video, Composite-video (CVBS) RCA, Audio L/R RCA, 5.1 Audio analog channels, Optical SPDIF digital audio, Coaxial SPDIF digital audio
• Divx/Xvid/Mpeg4 Playback compatible
• High definition 720p/1080i
• 4:3 / 16:9 video format
• PAL /NTSC video standard
• Multi-languages menu
• Full support for your HD plasma or LCD TV

Which, for me at least, means £200+ on portable players to do the same job is kind of impractical. Also, I've not seen many Archos/etc portable players that support such features as HDMI & SPDIF digital audio.

 

[Javacat]

quick question: have you guys looked into led backlighting for this thing? none of that fancy rgb stuff, just a basic white. i have no idea of the bulk pricing on such components but the heat and power reduction would certainly be welcome.

What do you mean? for the LCD? the backlighting is LED, draws about 600mW when fully cranked up. It is a very bright and a gorgeous screen so it will be easy to keep it turned down to save battery life.

Do you mean for the QWERTY keypad? That is something we are deciding on and I welcome opinions. Is it necessary? could be costly for a low volume device and draws more power too.


How about leaving it without a backlight for the keyboard, but make it so that it is easy enough to open up for users to hack around inside it and add their own? That way people can customize and tweak them to how they like.

 

[Yuglooc]

Funtastic Guy. I just want to make sure you really know, because you come across rather uninformed. This device will have Linux and USB Host. You know what that means right? That means that most USB gadgets work on the machine as long as there are drivers made for the OS. And guess what, the OS is linux, and again, there are drivers for basically anything out there for linux. You have a request that it should have a remote control.

Well there is a wonderful (ok, not wonderful, but it does the job) program out there called LIRC to control your computer (linux computer) via remote control. This or any other program could rather easily be converted for use on the machine (Oh, look Lirc is already on the DEBIAN ARM REPOS, so if that is used, it's just an install away )

So, basically, any usb gadget would work, and if there is a crowd out there willing to put up 300$ for this machine, to watch movies (which they can), on the tv (which they can), with a remote (which they can (they only have to put out 10$ more on the remote nad maybe 10$ on the dongle if they don't like IR remotes)). Then WHY WHY WHY would you like it to have an EXTRA NOT NEEDED REMOTE SUPPLIED WITH IT THAT MOST PEOPLE WONT USE, adding that extra 2-5$ for everyone...

That makes no sense.

 

[Tobriand]

Backlighting the keyboard would be cool if it wouldn't be expensive. I wouldn't consider it essential though.

It might make it more non-geek friendly, though...

 

[sinkyboy2000]

For example, a quick googling and I see the following player available for £25 :

• Front USB (Flash and HD compat.) & SD/MMC card reader
• Outputs - HDMI Digital Audio/video,Component-video (P-Scan / Interlaced ), SCART, S-Video, Composite-video (CVBS) RCA, Audio L/R RCA, 5.1 Audio analog channels, Optical SPDIF digital audio, Coaxial SPDIF digital audio
• Divx/Xvid/Mpeg4 Playback compatible
• High definition 720p/1080i
• 4:3 / 16:9 video format
• PAL /NTSC video standard
• Multi-languages menu
• Full support for your HD plasma or LCD TV

Which, for me at least, means £200+ on portable players to do the same job is kind of impractical. Also, I've not seen many Archos/etc portable players that support such features as HDMI & SPDIF digital audio.

WOW!! £25? You got a link?

 

[Squidge]

WOW!! £25? You got a link?

www.scan.co.uk