Our New Machine, Pandora

[efegea]

For the .desktop to work well, we need also cooperation. The devs have to package its games/applications/emulators as .deb and include a well designed .desktop file. That's the developer decision to do it or not.

Now I am thinking...how will a .deb system work with SD cards? Isn't it designed to extract the files on /usr?



EDIT: I've uncompressed the Exult debian sid ARM package. It contanins a /usr dir structure and, cool, a .desktop file

 

[Orkie]

debs can be made to extract anywhere.

 

[efegea]

I know, but we want a /usr structure on the SD? Well, I don't think it's a problem as long as we tweak the LD_LIBRARY_PATH to point also to the SD. Or something like that, anyway you are the linux expert, not me

 

[Orkie]

I mean the actual structure inside the deb can be changed as well as the 'root' installation directory .

 

[efegea]

Do you mean for custom craiginator .debs? But what if we want to use standard debian arm packages?

 

[efegea]

craigix, are you reading the "our new machine" thread? what do you think about using debian packages, the custom menu, the .desktop files thing and all the things we are discussing on that thread?

 

[Orkie]

You would struggle to install Debian packages onto an SD in part due to the filesystem, but you could probably write a custom dpkg (not hard if you only implement the basics) which altered the file tree as it installed the package if you needed to. Some things would work, but others wouldn't (It'd mostly be symlinks that'd break).

 

[efegea]

Sorry, I missed this post

-Click on the widget "highlights" it and center button shows a popup menu with options related to the widget (it's like the app's main menu)

I understood (and liked) everything but this. As far as I can tell there are three different bars/menus:

• A button in the center of the windows, which acts as the application menu
• A button on the bottom, center part of the screen that does... what?
• A bar running along the button containing application icons, and are split by the button in the center or are below that button

No, it's more like this:

• A button on the bottom, which acts as the application menu
• A bar running along the button containing application icons, and are split by the button in the center

About full screen apps (not widgets) (remember, anyone can develop apps using python, I'm forgetting the apps in c++ idea) I was thinking about alt-tabbing, because apps can run on background (i.e:music player, msn messenger, irc client..) To do alt-tab, the user can press a specific button, or touch any screen corner (or press alt-tab on the keyboard )

Yes, good idea. Now, keep in mind this is only the "launcher", so these applications aren't necessarily full-blown software. Instead, they should either plug into existing software, or provide their own information/functionality that doesn't replace other software. The reason I say this, is because I don't want an RSS reader in the main window, only to open my normal RSS reader and find my read items marked as unread.

I know. But in this "launcher" there are two categories of applications: widgets (shown on the "home" screen) and full-blown applications made for the launcher, both on python and perhaps on c++ (compiled as dynamic libraries, "plugins"). Of course, there are the craiginator native applications. For the native applications I have no way to do an alt-tab application change, because they take full control of hardware and the launcher closes or sleeps while the native application is running.

Of course full-blown applications made for the launcher will not be totally full-blown, but more like tiny utilities like the file explorer, a web browser, small games. Not big things like N64 emulators and so

I want this because they get more integrated with the launcher, and because is cool to code

 

[Squidge]

But this way it can not be automatic. So, how do the user and the menu organize the applications (and games) links?

Well, we have a touchscreen, so...

All new applications are installed to the 'Applications' tab by default under a "Newly installed applications" category (ensuring that new apps are easy to find, as these will most often be the ones you want to launch).

The user then uses the touchscreen to 'drag' the icon to whatever tab he wishes the icon to belong to. That tab is then brought to the front and the view is updated to include the new icon. You could even go one further if you liked and allow the user to actually sort the icons by dragging them about in the 'window' (I'd recommend some kind of grid snipping here though, to ensure easy alignment).

To launch an app, you could double click the icon. Single click would just highlight the icon. Click and hold would give a context menu, etc.

 

[YakumoFuji]

whooo nice work craig!

mmm me dreams of having his rpg run on the new machine.. I'll have to start saving the cash!

 

[Squidge]

efegea: I know your not talking to me, but I'm going to give my opinion anyway

I'd say it's too early to decide on software issues such as debian packages, the custom menu/etc. Leave it until next year (or just go ahead and make your own for the 2x, and then port to the new console upon release).

See my comment in the other topic too.

 

[efegea]

I'd say it's too early to decide on software issues such as debian packages, the custom menu/etc. Leave it until next year (or just go ahead and make your own for the 2x, and then port to the new console upon release).

GP2X: no opengl, so no port

I'll make it for pc-linux and when the craiginator is out I'll do a port to it. Anyway, I was coding a media center for pc which is very very similar to the custom dashboard. So, as we say in Spanish, I'll kill two birds with one shot :lol:

 

[efegea]

So no .desktop files thing? I liked the idea, it's a freedesktop standard and will ensure that if we install a full-blown desktop like gnome or KDE the craiginator native apps will show up on the menu. Well, now that I think, gnome or KDE will not search the .desktop files on the SD anyway, so that will not work, unless there are some enviroment vars or config files to setup the search path.

Anyway, the user can customize the menu. I mean, instad of "Newly installed applications" it uses the .desktop category and installs the icon on it. But if the user wants, he/she can drag the icon to another category, or he/she can make new/delete/rename categories.

Oh, and apps without .desktop files can be installed on some lost+found tab, like the "newly installed applications" you said

 

[Nr.56]

What's wrong with a simple fingertip control (IPhone like)? Why should i have to use the stylus if i want to open SquidgeSNes wich makes no use of it?
The startup screen should only constist of icons of the three last used programms and (maybe) 5 favorits. Also programs like mp3 players shouldnt (maybe with exception of the options menu) make use of the stylus. Fingertip or direct button control are the better solutions for sure. Just a note to think about...
:unsure:

 

[efegea]

What's wrong with a simple fingertip control (IPhone like)? Why should i have to use the stylus if i want to open SquidgeSNes wich makes no use of it?
The startup screen should only constist of icons of the three last used programms and (maybe) 5 favorits. Also programs like mp3 players shouldnt (maybe with exception of the options menu) make use of the stylus. Fingertip or direct button control are the better solutions for sure. Just a note to think about...
:unsure:

I don't know the standard menu but mine will have all kinds of control inputs possible

Anyway I don't know what do you mean with "fingertip" control (never used a iphone) but why not use the stylus if we have a touch screen? Making use of the stylus doesn't means that you can't use the buttons or the keyboard or an external gamepad or a wiimote if you want :lol: But that's a task for the programmer to implement the controls. My menu will support all kinds of inputs just because I love to do it this way and I love to make it extensible so new inputs can be added.

 

[Nr.56]

...
I don't know the standard menu but mine will have all kinds of control inputs possible

Anyway I don't know what do you mean with "fingertip" control (never used a iphone) but why not use the stylus if we have a touch screen? Making use of the stylus doesn't means that you can't use the buttons or the keyboard or an external gamepad or a wiimote if you want :lol: But that's a task for the programmer to implement the controls. My menu will support all kinds of inputs just because I love to do it this way and I love to make it extensible so new inputs can be added.

well, fingertip control means: make use of the touch screen without the stylus. use your fingertips. few, but large icons. (only for the opening screen)

 

[naples39]

It is all complete we just don't want to release anything until we are ready.

Pictures - Videos - Specs - Prototypes to devs - Preorders - Release

We have a goal of around Mar/April for the final systems to be shipping out. Some devs are getting PCBs in the next week or two.

This isn't a dream or a fanboy system (as some people keep saying) - it's real.

Exciting stuff Craig!!

Does the fact that devs are getting the PCBs so early mean there will likely be some juicy software available at launch?

 

[efegea]

craigix! I'm a dev! want one of these! please!

 

[A_SN]

There are two reasons I am not considering the craiginator. One is the outrageous price tag, something that I believe will keep the dev scene on this thing to a bare minimum. Second is the name, honestly, the craiginator? Are you guys trying to get me to take this system seriously? Why not get a name that shows you are serious? I'm not paying 400 dollars for a system with a name like that, sorry. Oh, and one more thing, there is this line you are approaching, that upon crossing, you enter into the realm of pc. I already have a pc, and I already can play amazing 3d games on it. Making the margin between your home pc and your portable system smaller only seems to hinder the creativity from my point of view. Part of the joy of working on a handheld system is creating handheld games, just taking concepts from consoles and implementing them simply because you would like to emulate them doesn't seem like a good driving factor in determining the development of an open system in my opinion (I say this because that IS what is driving these decisions. I have yet to see a homebrew game for the 2x that felt constrained by the hardware, most of the software falling into that category of being held back by the hardware is emulators). So the hardware isn't being pushed by homebrew games, it is being pushed by homebrew emulators, and while I see these emulators as a godsend for the gp2x, I'm not that disappointed to see that I can't run psx or n64 games, cause honestly I've been enjoying trudging through the stockpiles of homebrewed games and applications for this thing. Maybe you dev's out there are really just dying to get some dedicated 3d hardware or something, but why? If it's gonna raise the price of entry by some 240 dollars, I think I'll just stick to my pc to get my 3d kicks.

lol. Needless to express my opinion on the aforequoted text and the intelligence of its author.

If I want more polished (or 3D) software, I'd forget open-source and stick with the PSP and DS.

Well, the Craiginator will have the power to emulate the DS, so you can take that into consideration.

What are the specs? Could someone point me to a spec sheet so I can see if what this guy says makes any sense? Thanks.

Way to make a point. Not. We know, among many other things, what the SoC for this machine will be. That tells us a lot. We also know about most features it will err.. feature.

While I understand the Craiginator is not necessarily a handheld

Do you even know what the word "handheld" means? That means something you can hold in your hand(s). How's the Craiginator not a handheld?

By the way, some people raised an interesting question here, what about commercial software, and mainly, how would big time commercial game makers be attracted to this, despite the newness of Craig's company?

BTW, ID software are quite Pro-opensource right? Wouldn't be a completely outrageous idea for them to come on board with this thing to even do some ports themselves of their own games.

Well, why would they bother to do that when we can do it ourselves just as nicely?

most people out there are scared of Linux. (sad but true, ask your mum)

Riiiight.

Why does the craigenthingy need a physical keyboard if it has a touch screen?

For the same reason as the iPhone's on screen keyboard make people make twice as many typos as on a regular phone even for people already used to it?

Craig : Are you gonna make up for the BoB you promised to send me a year ago by offering me a discount on the Craiginator?

 

[Magic Sam]

So, as we say in Spanish, I'll kill two birds with one shot :lol:

Hi,

It's funny, it's "A stone two birds" in English, and "Une pierre deux coups" in French, which has quite the same meaning. It seems that our planet Earth is getting smaller everyday About the new interface, I think it's too soon for such a discussion, as we haven't seen a single picture of the beast yet, and we still don't know what it is truly capable of. Let's wait for craigix to show something, then we could talk about what fits the console best. I would myself prefer something simple...

Bye guys (and ladies ?)

Magic Sam