Our New Machine, Pandora

[Squidge]

There's just one thing I'd like you to make clear, honnestly, is there a chance that the i.MX31 actually makes it to the final product?

At the minute things are up in the air, so it is certainly possible. But I can't really say anything else.

So can the MX31 do N64? :lol:

Well, it stands a much better chance of doing it than the 2+, as it has a full hardware floating point unit, a 530Mhz clock speed, and, at first glance, faster memory.

I sense that a few people are going to be a bit pissed now that Squidge has given that price, if we do end up being stuck with the MMSP2+ h34r:

Unit price of the SoC is only one of the items, there are many other things to complete yet before a final decision can be made. Although we have a price, the 2+ may still be a more attractive option.

QUOTE

It would also be great if the new device wouldn't run it's own operating system but a standard embedded Linux system



Your reason being? I see no advantage. A version of Linux specifically ported to that device would offer all the same benefits?

 

[OrR]

QUOTE

It would also be great if the new device wouldn't run it's own operating system but a standard embedded Linux system

Your reason being? I see no advantage. A version of Linux specifically ported to that device would offer all the same benefits?

You would be part of a bigger development community. Things would probably get done much faster. All the useful software would already be there and programs would run on different devices.

 

[A_SN]

QUOTE

It would also be great if the new device wouldn't run it's own operating system but a standard embedded Linux system

Your reason being? I see no advantage. A version of Linux specifically ported to that device would offer all the same benefits?

You would be part of a bigger development community. Things would probably get done much faster. All the useful software would already be there and programs would run on different devices.


Not really. With our own version of Linux, we'll still have access to for example Debian's entire ARM repository (support for this is planned, along with X, by Orkie). Knowing that, there's little point in using a pre-existing distro. Not only that, but making your own distro for your console means you'll make it fit to your hardware and your needs, and optimize/customize it accordingly.

 

[Squidge]

Your reason being? I see no advantage. A version of Linux specifically ported to that device would offer all the same benefits?

You would be part of a bigger development community. Things would probably get done much faster. All the useful software would already be there and programs would run on different devices.


We can already run software compiled for other arm devices?

 

[OrR]

Wouldn't it make sense to just use all the interface optimizations for a high resolution mobile touchscreen from OpenMoko? If you need support for any special features (gaming controls is the only thing that comes to mind), you can just feed that back into the central codebase.
For the GP2X the simple fixed Linux was ok because it was a simple gaming device. This new device will be a very capable PDA designed with gaming in mind. Using a proven PDA distro instead of reinventing the wheel would make sense IMO.

 

[sam fisher]

Linux, linux everywhere!

 

[Fueler]

I have a request. Would it be possible to reuse the Cradle, EXT and power cables for the new Machine? Personally, when I upgrade I would like to just upgrade the unit and reuse the rest. It would make me more incline to upgrade.

 

[Tobriand]

From what we've been told, we may not need the cradle to do all cradle-like tasks. ED made some comments in the other thread stating that tv-out was a cood idea, but why do you need a special able to do it? And there seems to be an assumption that USB devices are just going to plug straight in, assuming they can find enough space to put all the ports on...

I admit, it would be reassuring to have jtag opened though...

 

[Squidge]

Using a proven PDA distro instead of reinventing the wheel would make sense IMO.

True, but there is no OpenMoko or other like system pre-built for any of the chipsets we are investigating, which means we would have to port it. Since we have working Linux's already that would just be like wasting time (possibly months) unnecessarily.

 

[StarG]

Your reason being? I see no advantage. A version of Linux specifically ported to that device would offer all the same benefits?

You would be part of a bigger development community. Things would probably get done much faster. All the useful software would already be there and programs would run on different devices.


We can already run software compiled for other arm devices?


Some have run Zaurus apps on the GP2X... As well as debian arm binaries would work (ah well - if you can satisfy their often huge dependancy tree . Same applies probably to maemo apps if all parts of maemo would be ported to 2x.

I personally would like to see joined forces with other handheld projects. At least to make attempts to have a platform which's software could easily be ran / ported to other machines.

There's just one thing I'd like you to make clear, honnestly, is there a chance that the i.MX31 actually makes it to the final product?

At the minute things are up in the air, so it is certainly possible. But I can't really say anything else.


Directly asked: any chance to see a SGX accelerator inside the new handheld, possibly as an added IC ? You seemed to gotten some better thread to the developing team and might ask them.

[edit] added opinion
[edit2] question + removed typo

 

[TyBO!]

Using a proven PDA distro instead of reinventing the wheel would make sense IMO.

True, but there is no OpenMoko or other like system pre-built for any of the chipsets we are investigating, which means we would have to port it. Since we have working Linux's already that would just be like wasting time (possibly months) unnecessarily.

Maybe [unnamed company] working on [unnamed handheld] should talk to Ryo about putting together a nice GUI for the system's dashboard. GMenu2x is teh sexy.

 

[A_SN]

Using a proven PDA distro instead of reinventing the wheel would make sense IMO.

True, but there is no OpenMoko or other like system pre-built for any of the chipsets we are investigating, which means we would have to port it. Since we have working Linux's already that would just be like wasting time (possibly months) unnecessarily.

Maybe [unnamed company] working on [unnamed handheld] should talk to Ryo about putting together a nice GUI for the system's dashboard. GMenu2x is teh sexy.


Ewww no, I'd hate not to be able to browse the FS. Oh well, I'll probably run X most of the time anyways!

 

[n8archer_XI]

If there's a (even somewhat) confirmed price for this device, PM me about it please!

 

[greenmikey]

More than gp2x, less than a house

 

[nubie]

Where is the comparable ARM processor for a 1Ghz K7 ?? Oh, right, there isn't one.

Guess you haven't looked at the Cortex A8 very closely, have you. Superscalar architecture that can clock 1GHz or higher. It might not be able to do quite as many instructions per second as an Athlon XP class CPU but it has a much more sophisticated instruction set with more registers, and excellent instruction density with Thumb 2 that can probably beat x86. There isn't 128KB of L1 cache, but it's also much better than 2-way set associative.

If you want to know of a CPU I'd be excited to work on that would be the one (and only). Don't feel bad, it's not just hardware, I'm almost never excited about anything.Looks sweet, I am into x86 as I am a hardcore PC nut, I don't know anything about programming. The Geode NX is cool to me because you can play with one for $149 (Actually it is $10 off right now) on an Itx form factor board (ATX compatible with PSU's and on the closest 4 standoffs to the rear I/O panel):

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16813153052

I need to run XP, I know, I know, I have tried Linux, but frankly I am all over the map in the progs/games/apps I run and Windowz has more going for it in the area of obscure hardware support, I am mainly a hardware tinkerer. Although now that I use VLC and Firefox the most, maybe if I can figure out how to get proper video output modes from X windows I could make a sweet HTPC.

QUOTE
And nubie, I know you're a huge EEE proponent (you bring it up all the time) but if you think x86 is the future of embedded hardware then I think you're kidding yourself. Cheap laptops and UMPCs are making headway but they can't really stand up against the myriad of ARM devices.


I never said that, I just thought it would be neat to see a Fusion processor from AMD sometime this century, and for $200 find me a better deal on a device with a web-cam and SSD and Wifi. (I want one, but no news on when they will be available.)

As far as this discussion on a new open hand-held, go for it!! I would probably buy one anyway if it just looked cool (Lord knows I bought enough GP2X's, 3 so far :rolleyes: )

I like the look of either new chipset, all we really need is the new hand-held, with ANY sort of proper acceleration we should see some great strides forward.

 

[Squidge]

Directly asked: any chance to see a SGX accelerator inside the new handheld, possibly as an added IC ? You seemed to gotten some better thread to the developing team and might ask them.

I don't even know what SGX is :blink:

 

[cappuchok]

Now that we have a price point for the i.MX31 and some comparisons to the MMSP2+, it'd be interesting to see a price point for the OMAP34x0 and a quick comparison with the i.MX31.

As far as I can see, the OMAP34x0 has an edge in it's OpenGL ES 2.0 support while the MMSP2+ has only OpenGL ES 1.1, but I can't seem to find a specification as to which level is supported by the i.MX31. Hopefully 2.0 but who can tell? Also the OMAP34x0 use a 65nm process, which might cause it to be even better than the i.MX31 in terms of power consumption?

I would guess that most potential SoC's use the Chrontel 7024 for TV encoding (at least the i.MX31 does), which would mean S-video is the best we can get unless the TV-out can be implemented off-SoC.

That being said, whichever of the three "most wanted" chips discussed here actually ends up in the console, I'll be happy.

Directly asked: any chance to see a SGX accelerator inside the new handheld, possibly as an added IC ? You seemed to gotten some better thread to the developing team and might ask them.

I don't even know what SGX is :blink:

He's probably talking about this. Looks neat, it appears to be the "top of the line" among the PowerVR family, targetted at "Next-generation mainstream and performance mobile platforms".

EDIT: Dunno which one is integrated in the various chips discussed here, though. A comparison chart would be nice.

 

[icurafu]

SGX

http://www.imgtec.com/PowerVR/Products/Gra...s/SGX/index.asp

 

[Tobriand]

Moving a little away from the SoC in a box, but hey, once more, if it's doable, it would be very cool. I assume if that were an option, it'd be one of the <Soc>L SoCs that would go in, since they're the ones without 3D acceleration.

 

[MWeston]

Now that we have a price point for the i.MX31 and some comparisons to the MMSP2+, it'd be interesting to see a price point for the OMAP34x0 and a quick comparison with the i.MX31.

As far as I can see, the OMAP34x0 has an edge in it's OpenGL ES 2.0 support while the MMSP2+ has only OpenGL ES 1.1, but I can't seem to find a specification as to which level is supported by the i.MX31. Hopefully 2.0 but who can tell? Also the OMAP34x0 use a 65nm process, which might cause it to be even better than the i.MX31 in terms of power consumption?

I mentioned in the big thread that the OMAP3430 is only available to high volume customers (20,000 pieces minimum per month). I'd love to see it, but not likely here!

Peripherals - dual sd slots anyone?

You read my mind!