Opt: How Would Investments Help You?
- Thread starter DaMummy
- Start date
craigix
Mega GP Mania
Do you mean shares? Float the company? It's something we have spoken about.
TimmyB
Still Fresh
DaMummy said:
Only if you use it to buy a flight to China. :blink:
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Pleng
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2006
- Messages
- 3,030
I think a floatation/ipo as a public limited company is definitely the wrong option. Being at the mercy of the stockmarkets in a project like this is doomed to failure.
At the beginning of the project, offering 25%-49% of the shares in a private limited company would have been a fantastic way to raise capital. Right now the companies balance sheets must be a total mess.
To me it is clear that throwing money by itself at the company. What they team needs is an expert in big business on board. A business Angel. I would suggest one/two who is/are experienced in the technology sector and the social business sector. While not a social business, as such, the OP ideals are closer to a social business than a standard private/public company.
Craig's biggest problem though is accepting help/advice. He'd have no worries accepting the business angels money, but would he be able to listen to take their advice. His attitude is pretty much 'my way or the highway'. There are plenty of threads in these first couple of pages demonstrating situations where Craig simply has his fingers in his ears to very sound advice.
At the beginning of the project, offering 25%-49% of the shares in a private limited company would have been a fantastic way to raise capital. Right now the companies balance sheets must be a total mess.
To me it is clear that throwing money by itself at the company. What they team needs is an expert in big business on board. A business Angel. I would suggest one/two who is/are experienced in the technology sector and the social business sector. While not a social business, as such, the OP ideals are closer to a social business than a standard private/public company.
Craig's biggest problem though is accepting help/advice. He'd have no worries accepting the business angels money, but would he be able to listen to take their advice. His attitude is pretty much 'my way or the highway'. There are plenty of threads in these first couple of pages demonstrating situations where Craig simply has his fingers in his ears to very sound advice.
torpor
hack hack hack, the little machines fight back
To be fair, it got him this far. Surely less stubborn individuals would have given up by now and it would all be a catastrophy. Craigs' stubborn-ness is an asset to OPT right now, imho. Maybe not so in the future, but we'd be wise to wait until there are a few hundred thousand Pandora users to demand any changes in this structure, I think ..
Craig, if you do decide to grow the company, please consider hiring from this community for your developer/support side of the business. I'd love to work 100% full time on Pandora, personally.
vadsamoht
Well-Known Member
torpor said:
I'm sure that a lot of people on these forums would want to help - but apart from those in the UK it would be impractical for Craig to hire them for anything other than as `your local Pandora dealer'. (reference to either cars or drugs, take your pick
)
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tsh
Active Member
I don't really see how, at this stage, much can be done to speed up the process. Tested PCBs are one limiting factor, cases are the other. PCBs seem to be the most significant problem, since 500 per week is the highest number I've seen quoted by the team yet (and add in some delays for scheduling and shipping issues).
mali
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^ If they had more money they could hire more production capacity from the Texas factory, I suppose. Small fish tend to get pushed back in the queue.
tsh
Active Member
The bottleneck there is likely to be the testing, and that will be limited by the number of test fixtures - which take more than a couple of weeks to build. The pick and place machines ought to be able to run off over 500 per day (and machine time will be near enough doubled by the time taken to re-configure and setup between runs, so there is plenty of incentive to get it done in larger batches). Sure, it could be done faster, just not in the short term.mali said:
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craigix
Mega GP Mania
Private shares might be an interesting option, we have the user base who would want more involvement and could see some profit come from it (you all know we will take over the open source console world).
After the 8000 are shipped we might speak to some people about how to set something like that up, having a few thousand people who own a little bit of the company, and thus are promoting to people, would be great.
PS I've met some 'business angels' before, Christ, just don't get me started on what they said about the Pandora (hint, drop the controls).
After the 8000 are shipped we might speak to some people about how to set something like that up, having a few thousand people who own a little bit of the company, and thus are promoting to people, would be great.
PS I've met some 'business angels' before, Christ, just don't get me started on what they said about the Pandora (hint, drop the controls).
mali
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I know, I just didn't want to divide the matter too much so I said "production capacity". Production is what happens till the final product is thrown into the shipping boxtsh said:
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bzar
A Commando
Something like this?
Craig R.: "We want to do this unique device! It's like a small linux computer that has gaming controls, a resistive touchscreen, keyboard and a big battery so people can use it for almost anything."
B. Angel: "Sounds nice! I'd do a few changes though. Lose the gaming controls, most of people don't want them."
Craig R.: "Umm..."
B. Angel: "Also, could you remove the keyboard and use a virtual one? That way you could ditch the clamshell design and make it smaller!"
Craig R.: "Just hold on a minute..."
B. Angel: "Oh, and resistive touchscreens don't sell anymore, so make it a capacitive one"
Craig R.: "Now just a bloody second, buster..."
B. Angel: "I know! Make the battery smaller too! No one needs THAT much battery life on a phone, right?"
Craig R.: "A what?"
B. Angel: "Yeah, people want phones, you know, convergence devices! Computers are so yesterday!"
Craig R.: "We're NOT making a..."
B. Angel: "I think you should lose the linux thingie also. People are afraid of it."
Craig R.: "But that's at the very heart of the project!"
B. Angel: "Just make it like the iPhone, but better, you'll sell millions!"
Craig R.: "Bye." *click*
B. Angel: "Mr. Rothwell? Hello?"
Craig R.: "We want to do this unique device! It's like a small linux computer that has gaming controls, a resistive touchscreen, keyboard and a big battery so people can use it for almost anything."
B. Angel: "Sounds nice! I'd do a few changes though. Lose the gaming controls, most of people don't want them."
Craig R.: "Umm..."
B. Angel: "Also, could you remove the keyboard and use a virtual one? That way you could ditch the clamshell design and make it smaller!"
Craig R.: "Just hold on a minute..."
B. Angel: "Oh, and resistive touchscreens don't sell anymore, so make it a capacitive one"
Craig R.: "Now just a bloody second, buster..."
B. Angel: "I know! Make the battery smaller too! No one needs THAT much battery life on a phone, right?"
Craig R.: "A what?"
B. Angel: "Yeah, people want phones, you know, convergence devices! Computers are so yesterday!"
Craig R.: "We're NOT making a..."
B. Angel: "I think you should lose the linux thingie also. People are afraid of it."
Craig R.: "But that's at the very heart of the project!"
B. Angel: "Just make it like the iPhone, but better, you'll sell millions!"
Craig R.: "Bye." *click*
B. Angel: "Mr. Rothwell? Hello?"
Bosbeetle
Terminally lost
Make it a bit bigger I hear netbooks are the new cool thing
craigix
Mega GP Mania
B-ZaR said:
WOW. That is amazingly accurate, only I had to do it in person. They also suggested we make an appstore for the phone. They suggested we use a company they owned to make that appstore (it would only cost about $60,000 allegedly!).
Because that's how those business angels work. They are only out to make money for themselves. I knew someone who had one and the 'angel' talked the guy in to buying his 'angel' house for way over the market value then slowly just stopped helping him. The house ended up being repossessed and the guy bankrupt.
No one is a business expert, some people are just better at it than others, even the 'best' can make catastrophic mistakes. I think were doing very well considering everything which has happened and what we have achieved. Remember I've been in this game since I was 16 and I've seen many companies fail.
I see it as a role of mine to research similar previous failures and what happened, making sure we don't make the same mistakes.
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Chaser
Member
That looked like it would be a pretty accurate hypothetical
You guys are doing very well and have created a unique product. I hope you get the rest out and then get the chance to make good on your investment. I doubt the Dragons would be an avenue you'd consider post the first 10,000? Just kidding!
You guys are doing very well and have created a unique product. I hope you get the rest out and then get the chance to make good on your investment. I doubt the Dragons would be an avenue you'd consider post the first 10,000? Just kidding!
WizardStan
Mega GP Mania
- Joined
- May 24, 2008
- Messages
- 16,731
Craig, for the sake of your sanity, DO NOT TAKE MONEY FROM ANYONE AS AN INVESTMENT IN THE COMPANY!
I don't think I can stress this enough. If you think people are complaining now about "lack of information" just wait until they actually have some kind of legal right to at least some of that information. Even private investment comes with certain responsibilities, responsibilities which will add to the stuff you need to know, responsibilities it is apparent you aren't prepared for because you're a private company and haven't had any need for them. Someone asked exactly how many had been shipped. You didn't know, you didn't have the numbers. If an investor asks, you need to be able to tell them. Investors don't always get say in the company, but they do need to be able to judge whether their investment is sound, otherwise any Joe could just start a company, take private investment, and then just cease all communication with no fear of legal retribution. They need to have some way of gauging your success and, if they deem it insufficient, a means of disposing of their shares, either through return or resale. Are you prepared to handle those? Got a good lawyer?
Long story short, unless you are really, really desperate, and about to lose the project entirely, do not take investments. It will kill you. Or at least rape you for several hours a day.
If you do need money and think the community can help, do a donation run, a bake sale, or even have your lawyer draft up a small loan contract that users can digitally sign. Do NOT use the word "investment" anywhere!
I don't think I can stress this enough. If you think people are complaining now about "lack of information" just wait until they actually have some kind of legal right to at least some of that information. Even private investment comes with certain responsibilities, responsibilities which will add to the stuff you need to know, responsibilities it is apparent you aren't prepared for because you're a private company and haven't had any need for them. Someone asked exactly how many had been shipped. You didn't know, you didn't have the numbers. If an investor asks, you need to be able to tell them. Investors don't always get say in the company, but they do need to be able to judge whether their investment is sound, otherwise any Joe could just start a company, take private investment, and then just cease all communication with no fear of legal retribution. They need to have some way of gauging your success and, if they deem it insufficient, a means of disposing of their shares, either through return or resale. Are you prepared to handle those? Got a good lawyer?
Long story short, unless you are really, really desperate, and about to lose the project entirely, do not take investments. It will kill you. Or at least rape you for several hours a day.
If you do need money and think the community can help, do a donation run, a bake sale, or even have your lawyer draft up a small loan contract that users can digitally sign. Do NOT use the word "investment" anywhere!
Stan makes a good point. Of course, all that can be potentially avoided if "proper" record can be dealt with. I work with a company that is ISO-9001 and we have very little trouble producing numbers, everything becomes automatic.(I'm also a scientist, so I was use to having a lab books anyways, so it made it easier for me). Databases for the win. Although, their current system - as far as I understand it - isn't all that bad. They know how many they have the parts for, and just subtract the reserve, faulty, etc. and your remainder is units shipped.
Also, being a young fellow with no kids, minimal bills, and an O.K. paying gig... I'd be ripe for some good ol'e "high risk" investment into something I have a genuine interest in, and faith that they will succeed. I'd buy shares. Hell, I work at a place like that now.
Also, being a young fellow with no kids, minimal bills, and an O.K. paying gig... I'd be ripe for some good ol'e "high risk" investment into something I have a genuine interest in, and faith that they will succeed. I'd buy shares. Hell, I work at a place like that now.
Tobriand
Well-Known Member
If I was in a position to buy shares (at the moment I'm not but when 8000 have shipped, who knows?) I'd be up for it.
I do think WizardStan has a point though - unless you've got some systems that make it really easy to communicate information to shareholders in a fairly automated way, you'll just end up having to employ someone full-time so as to be able to provide legally necessary information to shareholders. A position which, probably, would require much of the capital selling shares was intended to raise!
I do think WizardStan has a point though - unless you've got some systems that make it really easy to communicate information to shareholders in a fairly automated way, you'll just end up having to employ someone full-time so as to be able to provide legally necessary information to shareholders. A position which, probably, would require much of the capital selling shares was intended to raise!
