Open... and close... and open...

Discussion in 'Pyra News' started by EvilDragon, Aug 13, 2017.

  1. mecksg1

    mecksg1 Very Active Member

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    if you want you can send me the pyra and ill do the open and close for you:D
    and then play it and love it and call it George:D
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2017
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  2. ClockworkCoder

    ClockworkCoder Chaotic Neutral

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    I thought you were going to call it George then, Lenny.
     
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  3. mecksg1

    mecksg1 Very Active Member

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    :D:D:D:D:D i should have
    (and changed it)
     
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  4. stevenc99

    stevenc99 Still Fresh

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    You could use CO2 spray to chill individual components, and see what makes the vibration quieter. (Ideally set up a high-gain microphone first, with spectral analyser to measure this). I read about some crypto researchers successfully using this technique, to identify potential sources of side-channel information leakage (HF audio and/or RF).
     
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  5. Pyramancer

    Pyramancer Fairly Idle Member

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    Great to have some news, even if it's to report a slow -- but steady :) -- trudge towards as polished Pyra. I don't think anyone can be terribly surprised that FormAction failed to fulfill their promises of production before taking their month off.

    Spectating from my armchair [well, I don't actually have an armchair, I usually sit at my desk, but I think my meaning will be clear], it seems to me to be a mistake to test the the antenna(s) on an unpopulated board only. Surely every conductor in the near field of the antenna (that is, most of the components in the Pyra) will influence it's input impedance and performance? Might it not make sense to send to Nikolaus's WiFi expert, a populated board (or a complete prototype), as well as the bare board?

    The other thing I was idling wondering, is if the audio frequency whine is not also being accompanied by radio frequency interference (as is often the case), with harmonics that interfere with the WiFi performance? Wildly speculating, but perhaps this is why notaz, who has a particularly noisy board (audible from across the room), can't connect to WiFi?
     
  6. stevenc99

    stevenc99 Still Fresh

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    Wi-Fi was usable (quite fast even) on the prototype at DebConf. But dropped off quite sharply with distance from the access point.
     
  7. Swordfish II

    Swordfish II Very Active Member

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    My money is on 2018/2019.

    The WiFi issues sounds a bit serious, cases will take a while, and the noise will need to be tracked down.

    Did hns say PCB redesign due to the Eagle PCB error?
     
  8. A2000

    A2000 Member

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    I'm neither an expert nor have I tried this before, but is it possible to cover the pcb board with small particles like fine sand or something similar? Maybe some protection like a thin foil is necessary. The sound from the defective part should invoke patterns in the particles. I expect the patterns to be around the source of sound (and vibration).
     
  9. PCXT

    PCXT Very Active Member

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    It is called PCB coating and was applied to most harsh-condition PCBs in 1980s and early 1990s (probably in special processes still is). Makes repairs almost impossible.
    I have a communications board with white powder-like coating applied. Replacing a broken line relay took more than 3 hours. After scrubbing coating from 8 solderings, I used a pump to remove alloy. All pins were freely moving in their holes and broken relay still couldn't go out. Cutting the coating near PCB did not changed anything. Finally I removed it by cutting coating again, almost in PCB, but one side was so densely packed with components that cutting was impossible. So it came out with part of coating. And soldermask. And a few traces.
    This was THT, simpler one. Doing any fix in SMT coated board would be really painful.
     
  10. Letalis Sonus

    Letalis Sonus Advanced Member

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    You're confusing methods of detecting this issue with actual defensive manufacturing processes. That's not even close to what he was trying to explain.
     
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  11. levi

    levi Still fresh, damnit!

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    He did, but I assume there he was referring to a previous project like the Neo900 or something, as he referred to chinese PCB manufacturers, while I understand the Pyra board is being made and populated in Germany by a German firm.
     
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  12. Letalis Sonus

    Letalis Sonus Advanced Member

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    Populated, yes, but I'm pretty sure the PCBs have always been Chinese.
     
  13. TrashyMG

    TrashyMG Sarcasm Dispenser Staff Member

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    Why do you think that?
     
  14. Black Sliver

    Black Sliver Member

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    Is "connecting to usb" a USB device or a USB charger?
    Is it the same noise?
    Does it change if you do both?

    You are aware that the layer build-up changes the impedance?
    If you only keep half of the layers, the board would be half the thickness (and the result is still not 100% accurate), if you don't, the production time/cost of the PCBs will be the same.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2017
  15. rv6502-2

    rv6502-2 Still Fresh

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    Definitely.

    Ceramic capacitors are essentially ceramic piezoelectric buzzers.
    Or conversely, ceramic piezoelectric buzzers are essentially ceramic capacitors.

    Rather than search for it can you "easily" (without reworking the board) temporarily tack-on a larger non-ceramic capacitor in parallel to the DC-DC power capacitor and see if the noise reduces? If it has a lower or similar ESR it should cut the sound down by taking over / sharing the load and then we'd know it's the culprit (unless it messes with the USB power circuit too much).

    I don't know which form-factor of capacitor is used. if it's 0603 or 0805 it should be easy enough to temporarily solder to the top of it. Just wait for it to cool down between each side so the whole thing doesn't come off. Made that mistake a few times HAHAHA

    What's the life of tantalum? If it's 4+ years with an average Pyra-user USB usage (not a lot probably since we got SD card slots) replacing them at the 5 year mark doesn't sound too bad. Might as well do it at the same time as a new CPU board upgrade...
     
  16. levi

    levi Still fresh, damnit!

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    That 'life span' is only a MTBF as far as I can tell; it's the mean average time between failures, meaning for a sample size of two one could fail after 1 year and the other after 9 years and that'd still average out to 5 years, for example. I suspect there are a good few caps on the Pyra board, so if they were all tantalum you're more likely to find one that goes pop early.

    Also, I've not yet found a piezoelectric speaker that's been epoxy dipped, like ceramic capacitors are (I think).
     
  17. rv6502-2

    rv6502-2 Still Fresh

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    Yeah, but just replacing just that one wouldn't bring a big failure rate.

    Also, if it's in fact a ceramic capacitor acting like a piezo buzzer then this would put a good amount of stress on the solder points/traces with the vibration and could snap off the board before another type of capacitor would expire.

    For a vibration to be audible it needs to be strong enough especially if it's a 0805 SMD or similar (I haven't checked the board, I don't know what form factor it is).
     
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  18. jorlinn

    jorlinn Member

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    Yes, my premium PSU that claims to be "quiet" also suffers from it and it's incredibly annoying. So much even that I consider swapping it out with another one even if that means having to re-route all the power cables that were quite a puzzle to set up (sigh...)
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2017
  19. rygD

    rygD Nihilistic Mystic

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    Good to know the LCD cable is getting some real stress testing. We even have our own robot to do the opening and closing.:p

    @Askarus, I doubt I need to say this, but please make/share a usable dark theme that isn't an eyesore to be included in the OS. I have my own stuff I will probably use, but it really sucks that almost any DE or OS I use lacks a decent theme for use in the dark. Sure, some of those ugly ones are made for high contrast, so it kinda makes sense. Still, something that won't blind you and actually feels like you can do work using it is nice.
    Thanks for pointing that out. Time for some fun and investigating.

    Black market Pyra sounds about right to me. Maybe I should order a few more.;)

    I know your pain, and maybe more. That reminds me, I need to go fix the cables in the office from when we relocated a few things the other day. :(
     
  20. SneHebNor

    SneHebNor Member

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    The Pyra has been shown at the Debian Conference in Montréal (DebConf17) and the prototype is now back in Germany!

    AFAIK, this was the first transatlantic travel of a Pyra, practically the Charles Lindbergh Pyra :~)

    There is also a news post about the Pyra and other devices running Debian: https://bits.debian.org/2017/08/debian-mobile-continues.html

    Overall, the reception was very positive. Most people wanted to have one! Not mainly as a gaming console (even though the Pyra ran the "Frozen Bubbles" game), but as a very powerful and flexible handheld computer with much more capabilities than most devices available.

    Even the Wifi worked at the end! :~)
     
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