On the cromulency of pedancy and other questions of English languacy, a quest for our common joy and enlightenment.

[FBnil]

alçador de baixos fons, = > downtown raiser, (or vice district raiser, but it's not equivalent, or low depths raiser but that sound too pelagic). I'd love to see a better try

I can complain that it doesnt sound right, but I do not have a better replacement, sorry.

I thought chaser meant hunter too.

A hunter has more aggressiveness in the word. You chase a loved one, but if you hunt a loved one... uh... well...

The lines might be misaligned.

oh.

Your translation is too literal, I think. In Catalan it's an idiom.

You are totally right, my bad.

How do you call in English the job of puting make-up on other people's faces ?

visagiste - Wiktionary, the free dictionary

en.wiktionary.org

It seems English steals the word directly from French, but I've never seen it used, "make-up artist" is what I've seen used. (But I have not looked if that is the same as grimage)
A Stylist also tells you what to wear, so that job is too broad: https://www.zippia.com/stylist-jobs/what-does-a-stylist-do/

can't you say that's breaking hiccup ?

Yes, you can say that. Only the other meaning: That you deal short hiccups to other people gets lost in translation (but I do not have an answer for how to write it in English)

Post automatically merged: May 19, 2021

"underworld lifter"

ooh... it's different, but it sounds great.

makeup artist ? "lie makeup artist" sounds somehow worse than "lie stylist" but it's not a concept I'm used to reading...

I agree, but let's see if a native English speaker can gift us his/her time and resolve this dilemma.

 

[FBnil]

Would French people forgive me for making fun at their language?


The internet says that French has more than a million words and 20000 are created every year.
30% of the English words are borrowed from French.
For more than 300 years, French was the official language of England.
French has 13 ways to spell the "o" sound.

 

[pyrat]

visagiste - Wiktionary, the free dictionary

en.wiktionary.org

It seems English steals the word directly from French, but I've never seen it used, "make-up artist" is what I've seen used. (But I have not looked if that is the same as grimage)
A Stylist also tells you what to wear, so that job is too broad: https://www.zippia.com/stylist-jobs/what-does-a-stylist-do/

Ah. I didn't know.
"lie visagiste" has something for it. I like that it also alludes to "lying in your face". A "lie visagiste" could put makeup on your lies (makeup artist for lies) or it could paint your face with his lies (uses lies as makeup).
But that's not an association that the original makes, so I'm not sure. I think the original is clearly "someone who puts makeup on lies".
But I've never heard "visagiste" in English before either. Or even in French (but I'm not so sure).

Yes, you can say that. Only the other meaning: That you deal short hiccups to other people gets lost in translation (but I do not have an answer for how to write it in English)

I'm not reading anything about giving people hiccup in "tallador en sec de singlots".

I agree, but let's see if a native English speaker can gift us his/her time and resolve this dilemma.

That'd be great. I'll wait.

 

[levi]

A Stylist also tells you what to wear, so that job is too broad: https://www.zippia.com/stylist-jobs/what-does-a-stylist-do/

A hair stylist also cuts your hair, but that is slightly dated usage these days.

I agree, but let's see if a native English speaker can gift us his/her time and resolve this dilemma.

I would try to help, but I'm slightly lost in this thread already.

 

[pyrat]

I would try to help, but I'm slightly lost in this thread already.

Thank you anyway. No wonder one gets lost. We're trying to translate a fantasy job title "maquillador de mentides" which would be the person who makes lies look prettier by putting makeup on them.
I guess the conventional name is "publicist" or "marketing director". But that's not poetic enough, and the original seems to strive for a honest title for the job, so... yes, difficult.

 

[Djoga'Ro]

Like hiding lies or rather like defending discovered lies?

 

[Phlyra]

Like hiding lies or rather like defending discovered lies?

Thank you anyway. No wonder one gets lost. We're trying to translate a fantasy job title "maquillador de mentides" which would be the person who makes lies look prettier by putting makeup on them.
I guess the conventional name is "publicist" or "marketing director". But that's not poetic enough, and the original seems to strive for a honest title for the job, so... yes, difficult.

Lie embellisher? Lie politicker? (Actually that one would be tautologous...)
Winston Churchill emulator?

 

[Confuzzled]

@levi Thanks, appreciate it.
In German subordinate clauses are to be set off with commas, and to me that gives a sentence structure that I often miss in English. Less FEWER commas and not writing (new/ad hoc) composita as one word, which you obviously (still?) did when hardware as its own word was created, made me come across sentences I couldn't compute - not often, but utterly - and I wasn't gonna stop setting off stuff with commas.
Though, you confused me when you made an unwanted pause an argument against my comma. Found this

Dependent clause - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I had no idea commas make you,,,,,,, pause. Oh, sorry. I'll try to keep that in mind.

I didn't know that "to keep" has a special allowance thing going.

Putting the stress on the wrong syllable in economist made me add one, so that it still sounded somewhat English. Damn, I first wrote axis, but then thought that was the plural. And, I first wrote selfishness, but then thought it looked funny.

Actually knowing where I did wrong feels good. Thanks!

Sorry, a minor bugbear of mine. Commas are not a 'continuous' quantity, so it is fewer, not less.

I write 'continuous' as the rule is more subtle. One can ask for fewer potatoes, but less rice, and money is treated as continuous: I have less money today than yesterday, even if you can itemise exactly how many fewer pennies you are lacking. With a hangover, one might wish to have drunk fewer glasses of beer, or less beer, but not less glasses or fewer beer. That said, you could wish to have had fewer beers (I am not claiming English is simple, or consistent).

Oddly, English does not make the same distinction for greater quantities, whereas other (Scandinavian) languages do. In Danish, they have the word mere for more (continuous) quantities (like liquid), but flere for an increased quantity of discrete items.

 

[Confuzzled]

Btw should we move it all to the cromulency thread ?

Excellent suggestion: thanks for bringing it here.

 

[Confuzzled]

@pyrat
"tallador en sec de singlots,"
tallador has two meanings: carver/sculptor/cutter and dealer/banker (the one that handles the money and deals the cards in, say, poker)
singlots are hiccups
"en sec" has two meanings: short, like drinking a shot in one go so that the glass is empty; but also alluding that hiccups are short. I think it also means in the current instant, and literally "sec" is "dry", which, well, if you have hiccups, a little bit of water helps.

"tallar en sec" is "cut abruptly". If you "talles en sec un singglot" is that yuo stop abruptly to have hiccup, can't you say that's breaking hiccup ?

If tallar en sec is 'to cut abruptly', or 'to cut short' (as in cutting short someone's reply), then possibly the job is 'hiccough-interrupter', which seems suitably surreal?

Otherwise, tallador seems to correspond to the English teller - a person who counts things, so also possibly a 'dry counter of hiccoughs'?

As for maquillador de mentides, I can see the meaning is to conceal lies by (possible flashy/showy) artifice. There is an interesting link between make-up and lies in this Dilbert. Perhaps "decorator of deceptions" or "lie Potemkinizer" (edit to add, perhaps "Deception Decorator" or "Duplicity Decorator" or "Decorator of Duplicities")

 

[matzesu]

By the way, as someone who had 9 Years French in Shool but things he can better english then french :
What dos "cromulency" means?? Pedant is also a known therm in German for someone who knows things better and wants others to make things different..

I more like Peaple like Tyrian Lemmister:
"Thats it what i do, i trink and i know things"

 

[Phlyra]

By the way, as someone who had 9 Years French in Shool but things he can better english then french :
What dos "cromulency" means?? Pedant is also a known therm in German for someone who knows things better and wants others to make things different..

I more like Peaple like Tyrian Lemmister:
"Thats it what i do, i trink and i know things"

Urban Dictionary: Cromulent

Used in an ironical sense to mean legitimate, and therefore, in reality, spurious and not at all legitimate. Assumes common knowledge of the inherent Simpsons reference.

www.urbandictionary.com

Cromulent

'Cromulent' is a perfectly...well, cromulent word.

www.merriam-webster.com

Embiggen, cromulent - Language lab: English ⇔ German Forums - leo.org

LEO.org: Your online dictionary for English-German translations. Offering forums, vocabulary trainer and language courses. Also available as App!

dict.leo.org

 

[pyrat]

Like hiding lies or rather like defending discovered lies?

More like hiding lies.

Lie embellisher? Lie politicker? (Actually that one would be tautologous...)
Winston Churchill emulator?

Lie embelisher sounds right. I think I'll use that. I'll wait for more debate if any, but at least it looks better than lie stylist to me. Thanks.

If tallar en sec is 'to cut abruptly', or 'to cut short' (as in cutting short someone's reply), then possibly the job is 'hiccough-interrupter', which seems suitably surreal?

Yes, maybe. Thank you.

Otherwise, tallador seems to correspond to the English teller - a person who counts things, so also possibly a 'dry counter of hiccoughs'?

No. I can't look at ethimology right now. But I'd say tallar and teller don't have anything in common.
"tallar" means just "to cut", so "tallador" would be "cutter" or "he who cuts".
"tallar en sec" would literally mean "to cut drily, or cut in dry circumstances" but it really means "to cut abruptly || to immediately stop something that's ongoing without regard or allowance for counterarguments or impediments".
Usually it's not exactly interrupting, because an activity that was "tallada en sec" is not supposed to continue. An interruption might be temporary (or not).

As for maquillador de mentides, I can see the meaning is to conceal lies by (possible flashy/showy) artifice. There is an interesting link between make-up and lies in this Dilbert. Perhaps "decorator of deceptions" or "lie Potemkinizer" (edit to add, perhaps "Deception Decorator" or "Duplicity Decorator" or "Decorator of Duplicities")

All good, but maybe I like "lie embelisher" better. Potemkin villages suggest more elaborate façades, something completely made up hiding reality, like setting up the stage. "maquillaor de mentides" is more like decorating the ugly lie without completely removing it from view.
Thank you.

What dos "cromulency" means?? Pedant is also a known therm in German for someone who knows things better and wants others to make things different..

I didn't know it either before these forums. I think it's something like "passendenheit" if that's ever been a German word.
It refers to the quality of something which is "cromulent", which means not perfect, not exactly proper or smoothly fitting but, given the circumstances, acceptable, good enough beyond reasonable reproach.
You could call it "passability" maybe.
In the title it refers to whether "pedancy" is a good enough word to use when meaning "pedantry", taking into account that it might be pedant to require talking properly of pedantry, and that there's not possibly any other meaning an English speaker could misunderstand when facing "pedancy" even if that speaker knows the word doesn't really exist.

 

[levi]

Lie embelisher sounds right. I think I'll use that. I'll wait for more debate if any, but at least it looks better than lie stylist to me. Thanks.

Spin doctor? To spin a lie is to dress it up as something else, and as for 'doctor' look at the verb form rather than the noun it obviously is, it's doctor in the sense of fiddling, tweaking, messing about with.

It's ever so slightly pejorative, and I've not heard the term used seriously for over ten years now. But it's clearly what people mean when they describe themselves as communications directors, or networking team players.

See also fun terms like 'svengali' if they also are liable to carry themselves about with a degree of false import, especially if they're named Peter Mandelson or Dominic Cumming.

 

[Djoga'Ro]

Truth obfuscator?

 

[Null]

Truth obfuscator?

In the UK we tend to call them politicians or people who work in sales and marketing. they're grouped under the heading of professional bullshitters.

 

[Phlyra]

Spin doctor? To spin a lie is to dress it up as something else, and as for 'doctor' look at the verb form rather than the noun it obviously is, it's doctor in the sense of fiddling, tweaking, messing about with.

It's ever so slightly pejorative, and I've not heard the term used seriously for over ten years now. But it's clearly what people mean when they describe themselves as communications directors, or networking team players.

See also fun terms like 'svengali' if they also are liable to carry themselves about with a degree of false import, especially if they're named Peter Mandelson or Dominic Cumming.

That is definitely the most appropriate colloquialism and with relatives formerly working in the political sphere I can assure you we do still use it very seriously in the UK, in particular to describe people like Cummings and other SPADs who massage the truth. A “truth massager” could be an alternative expression but it’s not as good as “spin doctor”.

 

[FBnil]

What dos "cromulency" means??

Dutch word: Deugelijk

 

[Binky]

I would argue that a spin doctor's role is not exactly to lie, elaborately or otherwise.

"Spin" (I think) refers to sports in which you can make the ball spin when hitting it, so that its trajectory/behaviour surprises your opponents. That is, a spin doctor takes a politically-unpopular truth, and reframes it to make it seem better.

For example, a government which is planning to reduce funding for public services might announce "A streamlining of essential community assets, ensuring support for those who need it most while being fiscally responsible and saving taxpayers' money."

It's not a lie, but it isn't truthful either!

 

[Phlyra]

I would argue that a spin doctor's role is not exactly to lie, elaborately or otherwise.

"Spin" (I think) refers to sports in which you can make the ball spin when hitting it, so that its trajectory/behaviour surprises your opponents. That is, a spin doctor takes a politically-unpopular truth, and reframes it to make it seem better.

For example, a government which is planning to reduce funding for public services might announce "A streamlining of essential community assets, ensuring support for those who need it most while being fiscally responsible and saving taxpayers' money."

It's not a lie, but it isn't truthful either!

On the other hand there are multiple documented occasions when govt. spin doctors have indeed tried to dress up demonstrable lies to make them seem like more palatable truths...