On the cromulency of pedancy and other questions of English languacy, a quest for our common joy and enlightenment.

[Djoga'Ro]

@levi Thanks, appreciate it.
In German subordinate clauses are to be set off with commas, and to me that gives a sentence structure that I often miss in English. Less commas and not writing (new/ad hoc) composita as one word, which you obviously (still?) did when hardware as its own word was created, made me come across sentences I couldn't compute - not often, but utterly - and I wasn't gonna stop setting off stuff with commas.
Though, you confused me when you made an unwanted pause an argument against my comma. Found this

Dependent clause - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I had no idea commas make you,,,,,,, pause. Oh, sorry. I'll try to keep that in mind.

I didn't know that "to keep" has a special allowance thing going.

Putting the stress on the wrong syllable in economist made me add one, so that it still sounded somewhat English. Damn, I first wrote axis, but then thought that was the plural. And, I first wrote selfishness, but then thought it looked funny.

Actually knowing where I did wrong feels good. Thanks!

 

[pyrat]

Since he seems to like it, I'm going to go full on english nerd on this post. I'm therefore guaranteed to make at least one mistake myself in this, but I guess that's my schadenfreude quotient for doing this.

Would that "english" be lowercase ? I mean, if you capitalize it when it is noun and lowercase it when it is modifier/adjective, then is English German ???!!!!

Far too many commas here. Especially the comma between 'position' and 'he is in' feels particularly misplaced as you really wouldn't want to pause just there when speaking.

I hadn't realised English grammar fits English so well and German grammar fits German so well...

'axis' (assumging you're talking about graphs, rather than chopping wood)

Wait. Do you mean that a log axis has nothing to do with axing logs ?
And then, how do you get so many values off the graph without the axe ?

And since 'continues' is the active verb in your last sentence, you ought to go to the infinitive for the next one: 'Trump continues to prove he's not', or if you want to emphasise continuity, perhaps 'Trump keeps proving he's not'. 'keeps ...ing' is a special form with a special name in english grammar (it might be the pluperfect, but I really can't remember).

I don't know what it is called, but plusquamperfect is it not. Present continous might be, although I think it's something else. I'd say it's maybe just a periphrasis.

Perfect means done, finished, completed. Plusquamperfect means literally "more than perfect" (yeah, I didn't want to learn Latin when I was 15 but somehow Metallica, Manowar and friends kept me awake while studying it and you never know when you'll use it (as one of my teachers used to reply "the only thing you won't use is what you don't know", when some student complained that "Languages, Grammars and Automata" was useless theory stuff)).
The gist of plusquamperfect is that something was done by the time something else was done. So the something had to be even more done than the other something, hadn't it ?
Like "she had already left when he came" is plusquamperfect for "to leave". The leaving was done ("plusquamperfected") before the coming was done ("perfected").
In the languages I know it is built with the auxiliary verb in a past tense and the meaning carrying verb in past participle.

 

[levi]

Oddly, the plural of axis is axes, which is the same as the plural of axe.

But yeah, comma indicates somewhere where it's a good idea to pause, reset your brain for a subsequent clause or something, although they're also used in lists which isn't such a big reset, but that's the convention. In English it's quite easy to make huge run-on sentences without the use of any commas so sometimes I add them where not really necessary. Sometimes I have to go back to the start of the sentence and try to read it again.

And I'm still not sure what 'keep <verb>ing' is. It feels kind of like an auxilary, but it's not listed as a form of that on wikipedia, so I'm not sure.

 

[Null]

In English it's quite easy to make huge run-on sentences without the use of any commas so sometimes I add them where not really necessary.

 

[Confuzzled]

Oddly, the plural of axis is axes, which is the same as the plural of axe.

But yeah, comma indicates somewhere where it's a good idea to pause, reset your brain for a subsequent clause or something, although they're also used in lists which isn't such a big reset, but that's the convention. In English it's quite easy to make huge run-on sentences without the use of any commas so sometimes I add them where not really necessary. Sometimes I have to go back to the start of the sentence and try to read it again.

And I'm still not sure what 'keep <verb>ing' is. It feels kind of like an auxilary, but it's not listed as a form of that on wikipedia, so I'm not sure.

Even though English is my first language, I tend to over-use commas. I suspect it is a hang-over from my learning the practice of public speaking, where speaking clearly and useing pauses to enhance meaning is important, so I tend to add commas to delineate concepts in my writing.

At least the plural of axe is pronounced differently to the plural of axis. That links into another bugbear: the use of foreign plurals in English. English does have a few irregular plurals, such as; ox, oxen; goose, geese; man, men; but in general you can just take the singular noun and add an 's' to it (or an 'es' if the last letter of the singular noun is 's'). Some people think that foreign loan-words should be pluralised as if you were speaking the language they came from. I admit that I used to think that, but changed my mind, especially once I saw that paninis and agendas are in common and understandable use. As far as I'm concerned, pluralising by adding an 's' is preferred, but other modes are acceptable*, even if you are being a bit of a show-off by doing do.

*Some irregular plurals are so ingrained that adding an 's' to the singular is never seen, but in many cases it is an accepted alternative. See: 100 Irregular Plural Nouns in English

 

[RZR]

Two pieces of advice:

The spell checker most browsers (Firefox & Chrome come to my mind...) include usually helps with orthography.

Wordreference is a good place to solve some doubts.

 

[levi]

Yes, I always pay attention to my spellchecker. It's saves me quite regularly. It is frustrating that it doesn't recognise my non-standard non-capitalisation of languages such as 'english', and some technical terms and slang that I don't propose to use so often, so don't add them to the dictionary myself, often get flagged up. But I still observe the little red squiggles, and if I can't decide why it's placed it there, I'll look at its suggestions.

 

[Confuzzled]

Two pieces of advice:

The spell checker most browsers (Firefox & Chrome come to my mind...) include usually helps with orthography.
Wordreference is a good place to solve some doubts.

I deem it as useless. It does not include floccinaucinihilipilification. Tchah!

 

[Null]

 

[RZR]

Why do they have there own word for the Equator? Even in the Englisch Version, i would understand what it means if i would only speak spain..

Anyway, its quite anoying to read the complains about the Pyra and ditnt got the Email...

Oh and i would put the Pyra Book on an House Altar or something..
Pyra is our Religion.. ^^

It sounds pretty close in English because they had not enough personality back then to invent their own term (or to deform the latin one so no one noticed...) and borrowed copied something similar to the original latin term (aequator). By the way, the Portuguese also had a bit of imagination and use 'equador'.

equator - Wiktionary, the free dictionary

en.wiktionary.org

 

[matzesu]

Ah ok, thanks for the Answer ^^
Why ditnt whe call it *Earth Middle Line* in Englisch?

 

[ClockworkCoder]

Ah ok, thanks for the Answer ^^
Why ditnt whe call it *Earth Middle Line* in Englisch?

Or Mordor (middle-earth)

 

[Null]

Or the Central Line.

 

[levi]

More likely the Northern line if you want to get to Mordor/Morden

 

[pyrat]

Different types of people gravitate to different types of work. Some people like to cook. Some people like to draw. Some people like to build things. [...] I would be much happier soldering children's toys, if only that were viable.

Spoiler: Off topic

The job builder (Miquel Pujadó)

De petit, si em preguntaven	As a child if they asked
"Què vols ser, quan siguis gran?",	"What will you do when you grow up?",
deia allò que s'esperaven	I replied what was expected
els adults del meu voltant:	by adults around me:
bomber, metge, economista,	fireman, doctor, economist,
astronauta, professor,	astronaut, teacher,
funcionari, periodista	civil servant, journalist,
o pilot d'aviació.	or airliner pilot.
I ells em feien bona cara,	They looked pleased at me,
em donaven un car'mel	they gave me a sweet,
i li deien a la mare:	and they told my mother
"Aquest nen és tot un cel!"	"This child is a charm!"
Però m'importava un rave	But I couldn't care less
l'opinió d'aquells cretins	for the opinion of those fools
i en secret acaronava	and I secretly caressed
mil oficis clandestins:	a thousand clandestine jobs:
===================	===================
sodomitzador de puces,	flea sodomizer,
caçador d'aigua corrent,	running water hunter,
seductor de nines russes,	Russian doll seducer,
embotellador de vent,	wind bottler,
venedor d'esgarrifances	shiver salesman,
alçador de baixos fons,	underworld lifter,
desarrugador de panses,	raisin uncreaser,
distribuïdor de petons,	kiss distributor,
conductor de calaixeres,	cabinet driver, (cupboard driver),
polidor d'escuradents,	toothpick sharpener,
domador de calaveres,	skull tamer,
bressador de sols ponents,	setting sun cuddler,
psicoanalista de vaques,	cow psychoanalyst,
amplificador de crits,	scream amplifier,
provador de llits i hamaques,	bed and hammock tester,
detector de malparits.	bastard detector.
===================	===================
El món és tan depriment,	The world is so depressing,
tan gris, tan convencional...	so gray, so conventional...
Si vols 'nar a contracorrent,	If you want to go against the tide,
pots prendre mal.	you're in harm's way.
===================	===================
I vaig créixer, i no volia	And I grew up, and I didn't want
ser enginyer ni ser advocat.	to be engineer nor lawyer.
El meu pare, cada dia	My father, day after day
se'l veia més emprenyat	looked more and more angry
i em cridava: "Ets un desastre,	and shouted at me: "You're a calamity,
un inútil, un gandul!	useless, lazybutt!
Qui vulgui menjar pollastre,	If one wants chicken to eat,
que comenci a moure el cul!"	one should start to move his arse!"
I jo, ofès, li deia: "Papa,	I took offence and replied: "Dad,
prou voldria treballar	I'd quite love to work
si un projecte amb prou de grapa	if a project catching enough
em sabés interessar.	could interest me.
Només m'ofereixen feines	They only offer me jobs,
ensopides i banals.	which are boring and banal.
Jo vull esmolar les eines	I want to sharpen my tools
en oficis immortals:	in immortal jobs:
===================	===================
inflador de collonades,	bollock inflator,
llepador d'aparadors,	shopwindow licker,
endolcidor d'arengades,	herring sweetener,
frenador d'atacs de tos,	cough attack averter,
maquillador de mentides,	spin doctor, (lie embelisher)
esgarrapador de gats,	cat scratcher,
provocador d'estampides,	stampede provoker,
unidor d'esquarterats,	quartering victim rejoiner,
qüestionador de certeses,	certainity questioner,
gran pontífex dels bordells,	highest pontiff of the brothels,
productor d'embriagueses,	drunkenness producer,
monitor de vol d'ocells,	bird flight instructor,
circumcisador d'amebes,	amoebe circumcisor,
tallador en sec de singlots,	hiccup interrupter,
desllagrimador de cebes,	onion unweeper,
professor d'estirabots.	slur teacher.
===================	===================
El món és tan depriment,	The world is so depressing,
tan malgirbat, tan eixut...	so unfit, so dry...
Si vols 'nar a contracorrent,	If you want to go against the tide.
ho tens pelut!	you're in trouble!
===================	===================
M'he fet gran, tinc alguns vicis,	I've grown old, I've got some vices,
no pas el de treballar...	but not the vice of working...
No he exercit mai els oficis	I never practiced the jobs
que m'agrada imaginar.	that I like to imagine.
Diuen: no tenen sortida,	They say: there's no demand
Mai no se'n trauran diners...	No money to be made there...
P'rò somniar, sembla mentida,	But to dream, believe it or not,
si no et mostra el món com és,	if it doesn't show the world as is,
si que et mostra com hauria	shows it as it should be,
de ser, com podria ser	how it could be
si un polsim de fantasia	if a pinch of fantasy
es dignés baixar al carrer.	would allow itself down on the street.
Ara em vaig guanyant la vida	Right now I make a living
fent cançons, però potser,	out of songwriting, but just maybe,
si no deixo anar la brida,	if I don't let go of the reins,
algun dia esdevindré	some day I may become
==================	===================
salinitzador de pluges,	rain salter,
llançador de fruits podrits,	rotten fruit thrower,
dietista per a truges,	sow dietist,
acaronador de pits,	breast caresser,
clonador de merda d'oca,	goose shit cloner
tacador de versos blancs	blank verse stainer,
extractor de suc de roca,	stone juicer,
orxatitzador de sangs,	horchata in blood infuser,
desaplicador de normes,	rule deadherer,
ferrador d'ous remenats,	scrambled eggs shoer,
quadrificador de formes	circular form quadraturer,
circulars, escuraplats,	dish emptier,
gondoler al bell mig del Sena,	gondolier in the middle of the Sena,
mesclador de carn i peix,	fish and fowl mixer,
comptador de grans d'arena,	sand grain counter,
creador de mi mateix!	creator of my own self!
===================	===================
El món és tan depriment,	The world is so depressing,
tan fred, tan poc elegant...	so cold, so inelegant...
Si vols 'nar a contracorrent,	If you want to go against the tide.
te la fot'ran!	you'll be fucked up!

 

[FBnil]

@pyrat Oh what a bad English translation. So much nuance is lost.

"running water chaser," should be: "running water hunter" (Because it runs like cheetah's do run, so you can hunt it down.)
"raisin uncreaser," => increaser of "low funds"/"vice districs" (red district/harbours/casino areas)/"low depths". The pun gets lost in translation.
"tan fred, tan poc elegant" => So cold, so inelegant. (Where does "so unfit, so dry..." come from? It's not even close)
"If you go against the tide," => If you want to swim against the current

"inflador de collonades,"
now balls is collons, but collonades is "stupid things", as in "I did stupid things when I was drunk last night".
Inflador is someone that inflates. But if you inflate the balls of someone, you are annoying that person. Like making stupid situations bigger while being annoying as fuck.
So all those things are embroyded in these 3 catalan words. It's like pizza without oregano.

"maquillador de mentides,"
Here maquillage is make-up, like "makeup your face". You cover the lies with make-up. The translation says "Stylist"... yes, but no. You lose that nuance where you cover up lies...


"tallador en sec de singlots,"
tallador has two meanings: carver/sculptor/cutter and dealer/banker (the one that handles the money and deals the cards in, say, poker)
singlots are hiccups
"en sec" has two meanings: short, like drinking a shot in one go so that the glass is empty; but also alluding that hiccups are short. I think it also means in the current instant, and literally "sec" is "dry", which, well, if you have hiccups, a little bit of water helps.




stopping now, before it looks like an essay draft...

 

[levi]

"inflador de collonades,"
now balls is collons, but collonades is "stupid things", as in "I did stupid things when I was drunk last night".
Inflador is someone that inflates. But if you inflate the balls of someone,

...wouldn't that be inflador de collons?

 

[FBnil]

...wouldn't that be inflador de collons?

Yes, yes it would. However the saying goes as follows: "No me hinches los cojones" (Spanish). ("No m'inflis els collons."). It's not a much used saying. "Deja de joder" (stop f*cking) is much more used.
And that word is used for much more: https://glosbe.com/ca/en/collons

Whoa, found a trove of definitions with that word (Spanish): https://elredondelito.es/cojones-la-entrada-definitiva/
It has even quotes from published books!

 

[pyrat]

@pyrat Oh what a bad English translation. So much nuance is lost.

Thank you. I'm not very good at any language, but I like work well done, so thanks for improving it. I'll edit later with more time. And maybe more input.

"running water chaser," should be: "running water hunter" (Because it runs like cheetah's do run, so you can hunt it down.)

I thought chaser meant hunter too.

"raisin uncreaser," => increaser of "low funds"/"vice districs" (red district/harbours/casino areas)/"low depths". The pun gets lost in translation.

The lines might be misaligned. Maybe I should have used a table with many rows.
alçador de baixos fons, = > downtown raiser, (or vice district raiser, but it's not equivalent, or low depths raiser but that sound too pelagic). I'd love to see a better try.


desarrugador de panses, => raisin uncreaser,

"tan fred, tan poc elegant" => So cold, so inelegant. (Where does "so unfit, so dry..." come from? It's not even close)

ACK. Copy & paste error.

"If you go against the tide," => If you want to swim against the current

There was an English idiom. It might not be go angainst the tide.
Your translation is too literal, I think. In Catalan it's an idiom.

"inflador de collonades,"
now balls is collons, but collonades is "stupid things", as in "I did stupid things when I was drunk last night".
Inflador is someone that inflates. But if you inflate the balls of someone, you are annoying that person. Like making stupid situations bigger while being annoying as fuck.
So all those things are embroyded in these 3 catalan words. It's like pizza without oregano.

Bollocks is also something stupid people say, so collonades :
- Trump won the election => - Trump va guanyar les eleccions
- That's bollocks! => - Això són collonades

At least I though so.
Catalan "colló" is Spanish "Gilipollas" or English "stupid" but not quite. That's most alive in Mallorca and Menorca, I believe.
Everywhere colló means testicle, but that's not where the world "collonades" comes from (or it is, because someone who is "un colló" thinks with his balls).

"maquillador de mentides,"
Here maquillage is make-up, like "makeup your face". You cover the lies with make-up. The translation says "Stylist"... yes, but no. You lose that nuance where you cover up lies...

How do you call in English the job of puting make-up on other people's faces ?

"tallador en sec de singlots,"
tallador has two meanings: carver/sculptor/cutter and dealer/banker (the one that handles the money and deals the cards in, say, poker)
singlots are hiccups
"en sec" has two meanings: short, like drinking a shot in one go so that the glass is empty; but also alluding that hiccups are short. I think it also means in the current instant, and literally "sec" is "dry", which, well, if you have hiccups, a little bit of water helps.

"tallar en sec" is "cut abruptly". If you "talles en sec un singglot" is that yuo stop abruptly to have hiccup, can't you say that's breaking hiccup ?

The song has a lot of Catalan idioms that are not so easy to translate in few words.
I'd love to continue, but I must go. Btw should we move it all to the cromulency thread ?

 

[pyrat]

I thought chaser meant hunter too.

I read that's 15th century usage. I've changed it to hunter.

The lines might be misaligned. Maybe I should have used a table with many rows.

done

alçador de baixos fons, = > downtown raiser, (or vice district raiser, but it's not equivalent, or low depths raiser but that sound too pelagic). I'd love to see a better try.

I finally went for "underworld lifter" . Not great either, but mayeb not so bad as the others.

How do you call in English the job of puting make-up on other people's faces ?

makeup artist ? "lie makeup artist" sounds somehow worse than "lie stylist" but it's not a concept I'm used to reading...

Btw should we move it all to the cromulency thread ?

Thanks.