Oh Dear, Scary Posts

[scarath]

So, is anyone else a little worried about all these 'can we run windows on the pandora?', 'i have never used linux but i preordered anyway', 'can we have ubuntu preinstalled?', 'i have used linux and can not use it/dont like it but i preordered anyway' posts?


Has all the hype done the project damage (or will it when it is released)?

I remember when the neo freerunner came out not long ago, i called the uk dealer and had a chat and he seemed worried that too many people where ordering it becausethey liked the idea of an opensource phone (dont we all?) but did not do enough research into the project. He was worried about selling the item and getting alot of bad feedback when people realised the neofreerunner is not a 100% working phone and if you want it as such you have to install qtopia which takes a bit more tech knowhow than installing a normal os.

When i read these posts i think of the openpandora project as similar.

Ok, the pandora WILL be a full working machine BUT as the holy grail of homebrew gaming/hardware and software hacking/etc, as this machine is billed to be, I fear all the hype has meant that many of the first batch will be sent to people who will not only not use this machine to its full potential (thats fine i guess it is there money) but will complain (not report and help) when bugs are found and not be able to solve problems that they come arcoss.

Ubuntu on this thing is going to be amazing (im sure i will give it a go) BUT why have it pre-installed? If you cannot install it yourself, set it up to run well on the machine, etc, then why are you getting this machine?
If you cannot install/run linux then I would seriously start now or question how right this device is for you.
I dont know anyone that uses linux and does not tinker with it alot.

Why preorder when he first thing you do after doing so is to report to the forums that you can not use linux or want ubuntu preinstalled?

There posts seem rather troubling for the community as a whole, not just the homebrew/handheld hackers comm, but opensource in general.

I am expecting a flood (to put it lightly) of 'oh noes i cant work it the pandora suckz ballz' posts about 3 days after it ships. which no doubt will be kindly tended to by the forum members as they try to guide people (who should have done research/learnt how to tinker with linux or not bothered) which i see as a huge waste of everyones time.

Lots of sales is great (they will keep the project going which is most important), lots of units shipping is great, but how many of these people who are preordering and not familiar with linux will use this device than more than just a 'hey look ladies i has smallest laptop ever'? How many pandoras will sit collecting dust after a few weeks of not being able to change some config files, add some more repos, find source codecs, etc, etc, etc.
These are the people who will be bashing the pandora when THEY cannot get it to work because THEY do not put in the effort.

Maybe I just dont want the gp32x forums to turn into a web-help-desk where people mindlessly ask all their problems without even using google to check for answers first.

When I read these 'i have preordered but...' posts I think, so why did you pre-order?

Oh well rant over

 

[Mithrildor]

If people can't install ubuntuthey should use google!

 

[A_Llama]

Uh, the pandora will come with an enhanced version of gmenu, which will be extremely easy to use. No knowledge of linux is required to use the pandora.

 

[benjymous]

Maybe I just dont want the gp32x forums to turn into a web-help-desk where people mindlessly ask all their problems without even using google to check for answers first.

Sadly, from experience, all forums will turn out that way, eventually. It seems to be human nature to assume that your problem is a new problem that nobody else has experienced (and also people are lazy. Why read a big web page when somebody else can do it for you *sigh*).

As for the ubuntu pre-installed thing, I imagine it'd just come supplied as an image on CD (or for download), so that the people who don't want to have to configure things manually can just click a link, insert an SD card, and be running in minutes.

Since this thing will have some sort of simple menu front end, the average user probably won't need to care that it's running Linux under the hood, they'll just download a new app, copy it to their SD card, put the card in the Pandora, and select their new app from the menu.

 

[White Demon]

Yes, as A_Llama said, the firmware Pandora will be shipped with is based on gmenu2x.
If people want Ubuntu installed, they will have to learn how to do it for themselves.

 

[Kyosys]

I think you're wrong. This device will not require you to have any tech know how, it just doesn't hurt. Getting software, emulators, games and even OSes on it should be relatively easy, so I sincerely doubt that there will be a bunch of "what the fuck, how does this work" posts or complaints.

I really don't like the idea of denying the device to the less tech-savyy. If you want a powerful handheld that can do excellent emulation and has UMPC capabilities, but don't know much about computers, does that mean the pandora is not for you? I beg to differ.

 

[mkinzler]

There're different articles about installing Ubuntu on an SD-Card for use with the beagleboard. And somebody will surely provide an downloadable base version

 

[Kyosys]

There're different articles about installing Ubuntu on an SD-Card for use with the beagleboard. And somebody will surely provide an downloadable base version

The pandora can boot from SD quite easily, notaz already ported ubuntu, and craig promised that they'd work on it more

 

[A_Llama]

Un-tech-savvy people will have no interest in installing Ubuntu anyway.

 

[mkinzler]

Just because of software like FF, TB or OO

 

[A_Llama]

Just because of software like FF, TB or OO

If they work in ubuntu on pandora then it'll just be a matter of recompiling them, right?

Those programs should be ported to pandora by the time it's released anyways.

 

[lordmunk]

Personally im with Kyosys, tech savvy or not, pandora i think is for everyone.

myself i pre-orderd one because im into Computer forensics, Pen testing and all that plus i liove playing old games on emus and being able to make my own stuff. and any one who is interested enough to pre-order a pandora will quickly catch the homebrew bug if they dont allready suffer from it.

The idea and tought that you can do what you want (with limits of course ) is powerfull enough that people will want to learn more =]

Like WoW brought MMO's to mainstream entertainment for the masses, i think Pandora will do the same for homebrewing and open source projects.

 

[mali]

I suggest that everyone from the community with enough knowledge about linux should offer unlimited help to those asking those questions.

Set up a faq everyone is able to understand, with step-by-step guides.

Don't discourage noobs with 'are you stupid, read the faq'-answers, just be patient and helpful.

I want the Pandora to have success, so it is necessary to not only convince the geeks.

Even if a question seems stupid, it is often easier to answer it completely than starting to moan how stupid it is.

The Mods could add a voting-feature to the forum for useful posts like on internettablettalk.com

 

[PoisonedV]

I agree with this. There some other posts before, on gp32x, that were lile this but more pretentious and insulted people just because they were new, not because they were unwilling to learn.

that said, i can see this coming.

MD & Cheese, guys.

 

[PoisonedV]

Like WoW brought MMO's to mainstream entertainment for the masses, i think Pandora will do the same for homebrewing and open source projects.

Oh, amazing, great comparison. I think I'll sell my pandora.

 

[scarath]

Like WoW brought MMO's to mainstream entertainment for the masses, i think Pandora will do the same for homebrewing and open source projects.

Oh, amazing, great comparison. I think I'll sell my pandora.

I thought the same thing ...

I suggest that everyone from the community with enough knowledge about linux should offer unlimited help to those asking those questions.

Set up a faq everyone is able to understand, with step-by-step guides.

Don't discourage noobs with 'are you stupid, read the faq'-answers, just be patient and helpful.

The problem is the people I am talking about dont read faqs or help pages! They throw up their arms and scream for help the instant something does not work.

UNLIMITED help? Thats crazy! Why is it the responsibility of people with linux knowledge to hold the hand of these people who cannot be bothered to find out things for them selves? They bought the pandora, they should deal with it (they made their bed now they can lie in it).

We do of course need support in this community, but not when the people have no desire to learn, they just want answers. Take the ubuntuforums as a great example, its a great forum with answers to almost every question you could ask about debian, its useful for 'newbs' and people who have been using linux for years, it has grown into a great resource that the community can be proud of. However, most people using it ask the same questions again and again and again without even looking at the hundreds of wikis, faqs, man pages, help pages, guides and old threads. Also the last time I was on there I found quite a few people asking the questions to be inpatient, rude and ungrateful for any help they get, which is disgraceful.

Some people thing that the whole 'RTFM' mode of thinking is a terrible and ignorant thing, and when used as an answer to every question it is. But if the community spends all its time answering questions which have been answered a hundred times before (and have answers which are easily found thanks to magic google) then we wouldnt get anywhere very quickly.

The pandora will work when it gets to people, but what if these people in question suddenly need a codec, or to add a repo, or they need to reinstall the os, or they want some roms/emulator. Do we really want a forum full of these questions which waste everyones time because people dont RTFM? (or use google)

This thread wasnt meant to be a dig at all 'newbs' as we were all newbs once, just a question of motivation behind getting a pandora when they dont seem to even research the project.

 

[mali]

Like WoW brought MMO's to mainstream entertainment for the masses, i think Pandora will do the same for homebrewing and open source projects.

Oh, amazing, great comparison. I think I'll sell my pandora.

I thought the same thing ...

I suggest that everyone from the community with enough knowledge about linux should offer unlimited help to those asking those questions.

Set up a faq everyone is able to understand, with step-by-step guides.

Don't discourage noobs with 'are you stupid, read the faq'-answers, just be patient and helpful.

The problem is the people I am talking about dont read faqs or help pages! They throw up their arms and scream for help the instant something does not work.

UNLIMITED help? Thats crazy! Why is it the responsibility of people with linux knowledge to hold the hand of these people who cannot be bothered to find out things for them selves? They bought the pandora, they should deal with it (they made their bed now they can lie in it).

We do of course need support in this community, but not when the people have no desire to learn, they just want answers. Take the ubuntuforums as a great example, its a great forum with answers to almost every question you could ask about debian, its useful for 'newbs' and people who have been using linux for years, it has grown into a great resource that the community can be proud of. However, most people using it ask the same questions again and again and again without even looking at the hundreds of wikis, faqs, man pages, help pages, guides and old threads. Also the last time I was on there I found quite a few people asking the questions to be inpatient, rude and ungrateful for any help they get, which is disgraceful.

Some people thing that the whole 'RTFM' mode of thinking is a terrible and ignorant thing, and when used as an answer to every question it is. But if the community spends all its time answering questions which have been answered a hundred times before (and have answers which are easily found thanks to magic google) then we wouldnt get anywhere very quickly.

The pandora will work when it gets to people, but what if these people in question suddenly need a codec, or to add a repo, or they need to reinstall the os, or they want some roms/emulator. Do we really want a forum full of these questions which waste everyones time because people dont RTFM? (or use google)

This thread wasnt meant to be a dig at all 'newbs' as we were all newbs once, just a question of motivation behind getting a pandora when they dont seem to even research the project.

You are right from your point of view. What I wanted to say is, that the disposition should lean towards being polite. I've been lurking around for a long time on the gp32x forum and many rude responses just weren't appropriate. You can read that off of some newer questions in which noobs add their appologies for asking right to the question itself. That seems to be a bad atmosphere.

 

[G189]

Maybe, if someone asks a question, anyone who feels like helping could answer it and anyone who thinks the person hasn't done enough research etc. could just ignore it?

 

[lordmunk]

Like WoW brought MMO's to mainstream entertainment for the masses, i think Pandora will do the same for homebrewing and open source projects.

Oh, amazing, great comparison. I think I'll sell my pandora.

I thought the same thing ...

Either your both ignorant or just mis-understood what i ment, either is fine .... but hey maybe next time you quote what ive said hell you might even have somthing constructive to say.. but we live in hope ^^.

As for how people can quickly and easily adopt the whole "ill just make a new thread even though there is allready ones about this made" attatuide, this exists every where. so pritty hard to stop when i worked doing simple tech support we had a forum setup and 90% of people where like that, its somthing you have to deal with. It takes time but as long as you have people who are happy to help, you can easily keep it under control.

and gerd makes a point, being polite is needed because if most of us are rude and stuck up our own rear ends, then we will only get people reacting to it. plus the fact they new people here are saying sorry in there first post/question is sad just shows how some must see these forums already...

(enouh rant/tpying from me im going back to playing DROPCAST on my DS while reading about OpenGL ES etc...)

 

[zilt]

When I read these 'i have preordered but...' posts I think, so why did you pre-order?

Why did I pre-order? Exactly for your original reason - freedom. I program games all day long on a proprietary system (DS) and I'm restricted to use only the tools that Nintendo supplies - and those tools only run under windows. I'm also not allowed to share any of the hardware and software hints/tips and any other cool stuff I might develop. But I've been a Linux user for over 10 years - so I run those tools in a vmware session under Gentoo Linux.

I want the ability (even if I never use it) to directly access the hardware and share cool libraries and utilities that I might develop. I also want access to the extremely sexy OpenGLES 2.0 shader hardware. The ideas I have to fully utilize the _far_ superior 3d hardware over any other current gaming handheld is exciting - and then being able to _share_ that code with anyone is fantastic.

Anyways, that's why I pre-ordered. And buy TrackManiaDS next month when it comes out in Europe - gotta keep the day job