Explain Linux And 'our' Linux In Terms Of Games And Software

[WizardStan]

hobbyman -- nice summary and getting back to the real issue One fix -- for 'pnd files' type, you merely download and drop onto your SD card; there is no install or uninstall needed

thanks, but for a new user I think the app store is simpler and safer, no need to work out which version is stable for example, or in a game where it's got a revised alpha version, no risk of messing up your system and having to reflash, confusion with missing files etc, I suggested just using the app store because I felt it would be less problematic, remember, beta<>better.

pnd
That IS the easy way for new users. That is all the appstore will do: download a PND file. You always get the latest version, and have no fear of messing up your system.

 

[juniorm33]

hobbyman -- nice summary and getting back to the real issue One fix -- for 'pnd files' type, you merely download and drop onto your SD card; there is no install or uninstall needed

thanks, but for a new user I think the app store is simpler and safer, no need to work out which version is stable for example, or in a game where it's got a revised alpha version, no risk of messing up your system and having to reflash, confusion with missing files etc, I suggested just using the app store because I felt it would be less problematic, remember, beta<>better.

The app store still uses pnd's which doesn't need installing, I know you know that. It's just install and run sounds like there's still an installation process involved. When it's simpler than what people may think.

Edit: h34r:

 

[hobbyman II]

yeah! but I'm a great believer in not making things as complicated as they are , afaik the app store just allows you to select a .pnd file, download it to be visible in one of two default locations (menu or desktop) onto one of two possible SD cards, and maybe run it the first time, but there's no need to go into anything other than to say "this is the easy, safe way, to 'install' your application, click here, smile, enjoy", once a user starts to feel more confident then they can do more.

for example, while .pnd files are smart, just downloading the file to the SD root may (or may not) make it visible on the desktop (not sure), or the user may need to browse to the SD root to find it, then they may want it on the desktop, so they need to know it should be in the desktop folder, and how to move it, what if they run out of space? what if they inadvertently download it to the Pandora ram?

using the app store is simpler imo

disclaimer, I haven't looked into the workings of .pnd files and the OS closely yet, time enough for that when Pandora lands on my desk, but that's the general gist of it, I meant well, even if I skipped a few factual details to reduce the usage to something more like the user expects, you don't need a BSc in automotive engineering to drive, just what pedals to press and levers to wiggle, and when. :lol: (well.....works for me)

 

[r00tw00t]

bah, im not gonna read through all this. your question is already answer by far i guess. good luck..

 

[WizardStan]

what if they run out of space?

The OS will tell them they've run out of space. Nothing but common sense can help them here.

what if they inadvertently download it to the Pandora ram?

they've discovered a way of doing something that shouldn't be accidentally possible. (By "ram" I'm assuming you mean the NAND flash, and not just to a tmpfs like /tmp or anything)

using the app store is simpler imo

Pnd and the appstore are not mutually exclusive. I don't understand why you seem to be implying that they are.

edit: fixed quote

 

[stustaff]

As you're new, I'd stick to something big and friendly; biting off something too bi might just annoy you, so start with something a little more friendly

You can actually install an OS to a USB drive or flash-media and boot from it (just like booting from CD.) You can also install into a virtual machine and then run Linux (or whatever OS is contained there) inside the VM as an application within your main ("hosting") OS. I do that quite a bit .. I carry around several virtual machines with OSes in them on a USB flash gizmo, and can fire them up anywhere.

But a Live CD is probably your best bet to experiment a touch -- just download a Ubuntu .iso, burn it to CD or DVD, and reboot to fiddle. You can even use them to install to a file in Windows filesystem, so as to not have to repartition or mess with your hard drive (though doing that means you can't hibernate the Ubuntu, which is a small price to pay.)

It might be a bit of work to learn how to 'cross compile' an app on one OS and architecture for another though. you don't have to be a developer, but you have to learn Lots of Stuff.

jeff

cant do live Cd as my Dell mini 9 doesnt have a CD drive, so will do USB, I assume then that Angstrom isnt a big friendly version? what would you recomend?

I guess the VM machine complicates stuff does it? I have OSX installed on the mini 9.

Cheers to the others for thi links i will take a look.

 

[hobbyman II]

@Wizardstan

I'm not implying they aren't :blink:

maybe I'm not being clear, I thought I explained it plainly enough, or maybe I misunderstand how the app store works

app store ...simple point and click app download to SD card

downloading .pnd from random site on net ..... chances for inexperienced users to create problems for themselves, have a bad experience and sell Pandora on E-bay the following day (or is that your evil plan h34r: ) lol

why run before you master walking? (btw: you are labouring under a common misconception...there is NOTHING common about common-sense, if there was, the world wouldn't be in the mess it is)

 

[Tempel]

I think Chip recently added an explanation posted by Hobbyman to the Pandora Wiki about this subject. And you should also check the thread from which the explanation has been copied

I'm surprised no one has linked to that thread yet. It's very thorough and explains the difference between x86 and ARM in a very noob-friendly manner. stustaff, read the first post therein; it says pretty much what everyone else has been saying, but says it very well.

As for trying Linux, Ubuntu is very friendly (it's where I started, and still often am). There are detailed instructions on booting it from a USB drive.

 

[WizardStan]

downloading .pnd from random site on net

That's the first time anyone has ever mentioned anything about downloading a pnd from a random site on the net. The way you were wording things it sounded like you were saying the app store would install things, which it certainly will not. All it does is download. I think by trying to make it sound simple you were actually making it more complex. User doesn't need to think about install or uninstall or any of that; it's just download and play.

 

[juniorm33]

This is exactly what I meant also.
You can click download and then play no installation required.
That sounds simpler than saying you need to install it even if installation is meant as putting it on SD card. Which I would say isn't actually correct anyway, pnd's get around having to install.

 

[skeezix]

Currently, the root of the SD card is not watched for pnd-files. I have considered adding that (non-recursively), but currently the searchpath system .. for each path listed, it recursively watches all children directories as well. So adding the SD roots would mean watching the entire SD card, which I think would be bad (ie: you might've moved some pnd-files aside, and donm't want them live; you might have 10,000 pnd files on the card which slows stuff down, etc.) Hence we picked specific paths to watch (and their children.)

Still, adding root (without recursion) might be handy, but could also be a problem. *Shrug*

(Anyone can edit the searchpaths in the configs)

jeff

 

[hobbyman II]

@ Wizardstan, Na-Noo : yeah! my explanational(sic) skills are dire, although I have almost a dozen computers and almost as many OS's installed, program and configure/maintain systems for friends/family and my boss, I still can't explain stuff in a way that most people find comprehensible straight off, a natural teacher I am not :unsure:

@ Skeezix : root as a default search path would be problematic, as you say, you could have a lot of files on root, and if my Sony prs505 is anything to go by then parsing large amounts of files via script gets seriously slow quite quickly (over a hour and a half for 3000 odd books to have the index re-created), I mention that cos it runs Linux and uses xml for handling the book files iirc, so it's an example of what can happen when you become over-reliant on scripts




further on Sony E-book:

as an aside, the Sony prs505 E-book is a prime example of how not to build an E-book, just about everything that should not have been done has been done, small fiddly controls, no scalable fonts, just three fixed sizes (that vary from book to book), no option to change fonts, can't handle large quantities of books without slowing to a crawl, no directory structure, no search, no dictionary, poor, alphabetical list style interface, no formatting options for different books.

the battery life claim is seriously optimistic, it can't be used while charging from USB, some PDF's fail to display properly, text files don't get reformatted properly when text is resized, oh! and it crashes a lot when loading files or changing things around, but the E-Ink display IS nice, I am still looking for something better though, I DO like it better for reading books than the small screen on my Palm tungsten, but I like it DESPITE of how it does things, rather than because of it's well thought out design, the E-ink is what makes the device bearable, nothing Sony did, it's like they wanted it to fail ,and at that, this is their third? attempt at an E-book.

 

[stustaff]

further on Sony E-book:

as an aside, the Sony prs505 E-book is a prime example of how not to build an E-book, just about everything that should not have been done has been done, small fiddly controls, no scalable fonts, just three fixed sizes (that vary from book to book), no option to change fonts, can't handle large quantities of books without slowing to a crawl, no directory structure, no search, no dictionary, poor, alphabetical list style interface, no formatting options for different books.

the battery life claim is seriously optimistic, it can't be used while charging from USB, some PDF's fail to display properly, text files don't get reformatted properly when text is resized, oh! and it crashes a lot when loading files or changing things around, but the E-Ink display IS nice, I am still looking for something better though, I DO like it better for reading books than the small screen on my Palm tungsten, but I like it DESPITE of how it does things, rather than because of it's well thought out design, the E-ink is what makes the device bearable, nothing Sony did, it's like they wanted it to fail ,and at that, this is their third? attempt at an E-book.

Not too go too far of at a tangent, but the 505 is a great piece of kit, I can read 4 books between recharge and thats over say 4 days on holiday and that must be about 3000 page turns. the claim of 4000 is of course under optimal conditions.
I have never had a PDF error however yes they dont play well but that is more a limitation of PDF at small sizes.
Never had a crash with it in three years of use, using calibre which if you dont have you should go and get right now, its amazing free open software, has made transferring and managing books on my 505 a breeze.

Its been the perfect ebook for me and think its the 2nd gen?

oh calibre allows you to manage font choices per book and sort to a size you like too.

 

[Sphinxter]