Nintendo 64

[b1ueskycomp1ex]

all things considered, at the end of the day, I would much rather have a GB/GBC/GBA/Wonderswan emulator than a nintendo 64 emulator, and I think all those things are possible. But what about emulating PS2....

 

[darkriku]

lol i just played a N64 Emulator on my dreamcast only a fps but still pretty cool to say yeah ive got mario 64 on dreamcast

 

[ninjawiz2x]

lol i just played a N64 Emulator on my dreamcast only a fps but still pretty cool to say yeah ive got mario 64 on dreamcast

See darkriku thats just no fun in my case, I rather have something playable than a proof of concept.

 

[darkriku]

its a bit playable maybe 10-15 fps really its just slow

 

[jacksterson]

all things considered, at the end of the day, I would much rather have a GB/GBC/GBA/Wonderswan emulator than a nintendo 64 emulator, and I think all those things are possible. But what about emulating PS2....

One step at a time, young one. PS2 emulators don't even work on PC yet.

 

[darkriku]

im pretty sure he was being sarcastic and i have a ps2 pc emu that works good

 

[b1ueskycomp1ex]

all things considered, at the end of the day, I would much rather have a GB/GBC/GBA/Wonderswan emulator than a nintendo 64 emulator, and I think all those things are possible. But what about emulating PS2....

One step at a time, young one. PS2 emulators don't even work on PC yet.

lol. I was being sarcastic. =P

And actually, PCSX2 is a brilliant PS2 emulator for PC (although it requires decent specs, Dual Core, GF8800 or better, etc.) that runs tons of commercial games (google for kingdom hearts on it on youtube, nice stuff.) But I was kidding, I would never dream of a PS2 emulator for a handheld console. not yet, anyway.

Dreamcast works well on slower hardware, my computer can run DC games at full speed, and it's junk:
2.2Ghz Single Core Athlon 64 (3500+)
2GB DDR1 RAM
Geforce 8400GS (=P Crap.)

PS2 emulation will get there, eventually...

 

[jacksterson]

all things considered, at the end of the day, I would much rather have a GB/GBC/GBA/Wonderswan emulator than a nintendo 64 emulator, and I think all those things are possible. But what about emulating PS2....

One step at a time, young one. PS2 emulators don't even work on PC yet.

lol. I was being sarcastic. =P

And actually, PCSX2 is a brilliant PS2 emulator for PC (although it requires decent specs, Dual Core, GF8800 or better, etc.) that runs tons of commercial games (google for kingdom hearts on it on youtube, nice stuff.) But I was kidding, I would never dream of a PS2 emulator for a handheld console. not yet, anyway.

Dreamcast works well on slower hardware, my computer can run DC games at full speed, and it's junk:
2.2Ghz Single Core Athlon 64 (3500+)
2GB DDR1 RAM
Geforce 8400GS (=P Crap."]

PS2 emulation will get there, eventually...[/quote]Wow dude, if you think those are crap specs, you're spoiled.

That, or you need to take better care of your computer.

 

[DurTahar]

It depends on your definition of 'working' though. I tried PCSX2 and although the games I tried were usually playable they were far from ideal, especially since a lot of times graphics wouldn't be displayed properly (i.e. the menus in Roommania #203 tended to go missing and the note-strings in Gitaroo Man also disappeared entirely, which in its case rendered it unplayable). I think what he means is that until we have an excellent PS2 emulator on the PC, you're definitely not going to be seeing one for anything else.

 

[b1ueskycomp1ex]

all things considered, at the end of the day, I would much rather have a GB/GBC/GBA/Wonderswan emulator than a nintendo 64 emulator, and I think all those things are possible. But what about emulating PS2....

One step at a time, young one. PS2 emulators don't even work on PC yet.

lol. I was being sarcastic. =P

And actually, PCSX2 is a brilliant PS2 emulator for PC (although it requires decent specs, Dual Core, GF8800 or better, etc.) that runs tons of commercial games (google for kingdom hearts on it on youtube, nice stuff.) But I was kidding, I would never dream of a PS2 emulator for a handheld console. not yet, anyway.

Dreamcast works well on slower hardware, my computer can run DC games at full speed, and it's junk:
2.2Ghz Single Core Athlon 64 (3500+"]
2GB DDR1 RAM
Geforce 8400GS (=P Crap."]

PS2 emulation will get there, eventually...[/quote]Wow dude, if you think those are crap specs, you're spoiled.

That, or you need to take better care of your computer.[/quote]>.> Those are ancient specs from times long past.

Also, I think emulation is starting to hit the ceiling in regards to playability, especially considering that most consoles are now using very modern hardware (let's all go emulate PS3's 8000 cores!) and PC hardware isn't exactly up to spec for that sort of emulation. I think it's probably the death of real playable emulation =P

Of course in 20 years we'll have 50 core processors and 12768P Televisions....

 

[darkriku]

Indeed but you know technology is growing so quickly *like speeds and capacity * i can see in 8 years a ps3 emu on pc

 

[b1ueskycomp1ex]

Indeed but you know technology is growing so quickly *like speeds and capacity * i can see in 8 years a ps3 emu on pc

Whatever you say, darkriku, whatever you say....

 

[Devilmandex]

seconded. we haven't even got saturn emulating decently.

 

[darkriku]

Indeed but you know technology is growing so quickly *like speeds and capacity * i can see in 8 years a ps3 emu on pc

Whatever you say, darkriku, whatever you say....

i never said playable speeds

 

[lowtech]

i never said playable speeds

Exactly. But there is a real misconception about emulation.

The first being "Devs only port emulators that they know the wiz can handle"

Devs don't really decide on what to port based on the capabilities of the wiz, but rather what emulators may run well with little to no modification of how they accomplish their emulation. There are many brilliant optimizations or shortcuts one could do to make a, not fully accurate but close-enough, emulation of a given system. but its easier to just port an application than to make those changes. So you have many willing to port emulators, but few to none of them have the ability or inclination to port emulators of more complex systems. Traditionally, emulators are designed so that roms/images/code can run unmodified. This is not necessary, google CxBx. (yes, I know CxBx isn't technically an emulator, but it accomplishes the same thing)

The second is that "Emulation is the full and accurate replication of a systems hardware"

Thats just one kind of emulation. Museum quality emulation. The kind of emulation of the Nintendo 64 that would be next to impossible on the wiz. However, emulation of the n64 that would work would be to automatically have the game code rewritten so that its more friendly to the Wiz's hardware (heavy dynamic recompilation) or just rewrite the code beforehand. Again, this would require knowledge and interest that most Dev's don't have.

OR the easiest option is to write clones of specific games. Mario 64 is mostly in third person, 3D, neat animations, neat sounds. None of those basic things require emulation of specific hardware or even emulation at all.

So instead of debating about what the Wiz can do, we should share information about how our favorite games can be cloned for the wiz, nomatter what system they were first released for.

(PS I'm glad that asking about N64 emulation isn't punishable by death here like it is on other forums. Even though there are many users on those forums that would have nothing to do if they couldn't rant about how N64 emulation is impossible. I'm sure there's someone out there ranting that N64 emulation is impossible on an N64 itself.)

 

[Exophase]

or just rewrite the code beforehand. Again, this would require knowledge and interest that most Dev's don't have.

Most N64 emulators I know of employ dynamic recompilers but it's not magic. The "rewriting" that takes place can only be pretty low level, and can't overcome some of the technical difficulties such as having to emulate a good deal of floating point code without an FPU.

OR the easiest option is to write clones of specific games. Mario 64 is mostly in third person, 3D, neat animations, neat sounds. None of those basic things require emulation of specific hardware or even emulation at all.

So instead of debating about what the Wiz can do, we should share information about how our favorite games can be cloned for the wiz, nomatter what system they were first released for.

That's what you consider easy? Do you really have much of an idea of how much work goes into making a game like SM64? Even if you steal all of the graphical, musical, and level layout assets as best as you can it would still be very difficult to get the precise engine mechanics right. And this is the sort of thing that can make or break a game, so you know people are going to care very much about it. Rewriting almost any game in isolation would be a massive undertaking.

Even if someone managed to do one game, I doubt it'll be nearly as satisfying as the number of games an emulator would handle. I don't think anyone is going to be very enthusiastic about investing this kind of time towards something when they could be focusing on an N64 emulator for later handhelds that'll be more powerful, like the Pandora.

 

[b1ueskycomp1ex]

Thats just one kind of emulation. Museum quality emulation. The kind of emulation of the Nintendo 64 that would be next to impossible on the wiz. However, emulation of the n64 that would work would be to automatically have the game code rewritten so that its more friendly to the Wiz's hardware (heavy dynamic recompilation"] or just rewrite the code beforehand. Again, this would require knowledge and interest that most Dev's don't have.

Most N64 emulators I know of employ dynamic recompilers but it's not magic. The "rewriting" that takes place can only be pretty low level, and can't overcome some of the technical difficulties such as having to emulate a good deal of floating point code without an FPU.

OR the easiest option is to write clones of specific games. Mario 64 is mostly in third person, 3D, neat animations, neat sounds. None of those basic things require emulation of specific hardware or even emulation at all.

So instead of debating about what the Wiz can do, we should share information about how our favorite games can be cloned for the wiz, nomatter what system they were first released for.

That's what you consider easy? Do you really have much of an idea of how much work goes into making a game like SM64? Even if you steal all of the graphical, musical, and level layout assets as best as you can it would still be very difficult to get the precise engine mechanics right. And this is the sort of thing that can make or break a game, so you know people are going to care very much about it. Rewriting almost any game in isolation would be a massive undertaking.

Even if someone managed to do one game, I doubt it'll be nearly as satisfying as the number of games an emulator would handle. I don't think anyone is going to be very enthusiastic about investing this kind of time towards something when they could be focusing on an N64 emulator for later handhelds that'll be more powerful, like the Pandora.[/quote]Emulation is extremely difficult. Even with dynamic recompiling, emulating something as powerful as the N64 isn't a simple task. To run, but be unplayable - Possibly. But to run and be playable, on the wiz? Why? How? What's the point? There's absolutely no way N64 would have any place at all on the wiz. Not to mention how the XBOX barely had enough ram to run N64 games, nevermind the Wiz. 64MB? 40 of which are usable by linux? Why would anyone bother to code for that? Most carts would probably take up most of the room. The best you would get out of an n64 emulator for the wiz is MAYBE Super mario 64, at unplayable speeds. Why would you have someone waste their time coding something that serves little to no purpose?

 

[Exophase]

Respond to him, not me -_-

 

[lowtech]

Most N64 emulators I know of employ dynamic recompilers but it's not magic. The "rewriting" that takes place can only be pretty low level, and can't overcome some of the technical difficulties such as having to emulate a good deal of floating point code without an FPU.

I didn't call it magic, or assuming that it is, I'm simply pointing out that if the system you're using doesn't have the muscle to run another system's code unchanged (traditional/conventional emulation), then modification of the code is required. And pointing out that this is very hard to do at all, let alone compared to simply porting someone else's work.

That's what you consider easy? Do you really have much of an idea of how much work goes into making a game like SM64? Even if you steal all of the graphical, musical, and level layout assets as best as you can it would still be very difficult to get the precise engine mechanics right. And this is the sort of thing that can make or break a game, so you know people are going to care very much about it. Rewriting almost any game in isolation would be a massive undertaking.

I didn't say that it was just easy, I said it was "easiest" when compared to the technical knowledge and work needed to write an emulator or rewriting code of a game, especially in the case of an N64 emulator on the wiz. And I agree, it would be a huge undertaking to clone a game, but only depending on how accurate you want your clone to be. Too inaccurate, and it would be a crappy version. Too high of an expectation of accuracy could become impractical. A good balance, and people would be happy. People with experience on the emulation scene have a lot of patients, and often are content with a slightly stuttery game, based on what is personally considered "playable".

The wiz can be a lot more than just a good 2D emulation handheld. For every one person porting an emulator, ten others with the same or less technical knowledge could write many great games for the wiz. Anyone could write N64 inspired games for the wiz. We don't need to be GBA emulation geniuses.

Even if someone managed to do one game, I doubt it'll be nearly as satisfying as the number of games an emulator would handle. I don't think anyone is going to be very enthusiastic about investing this kind of time towards something ...

Enthusiasm is exactly what I'm talking about. Who would be enthusiastic about porting an emulator that required more work and technical changes than they are willing to do or probably not capable of doing? And of course, it is more satisfying to be able to play "the number of games an emulator would handle," I never argued that cloning specific games was better, but in the case of an emulator most likely never running on the wiz, cloning games or making similar games would be the next best thing and the only other option.

Instead of people waiting for a Dev to crack open a red bull and port an emulator in their free time in their parent's basement, they should find a way to make some awesome games for the wiz and focus their energy on that.

EDIT: typo

 

[Exophase]

The wiz can be a lot more than just a good 2D emulation handheld. For every one person porting an emulator, ten others with the same or less technical knowledge could write many great games for the wiz. Anyone could write N64 inspired games for the wiz. We don't need to be GBA emulation geniuses.

On the contrary, it takes a ton of talent and effort to write an N64 level game. There's a reason why there haven't been that many free games of that caliber, or even anywhere remotely close. Hardly "anyone" could. You'll be very hard pressed to find a team of people who can and are willing to do this - most people who have these kinds of abilities are professionals who don't have the time.

Enthusiasm is exactly what I'm talking about. Who would be enthusiastic about porting an emulator that required more work and technical changes than they are willing to do or probably not capable of doing? And of course, it is more satisfying to be able to play "the number of games an emulator would handle," I never argued that cloning specific games was better, but in the case of an emulator most likely never running on the wiz, cloning games or making similar games would be the next best thing and the only other option.

Instead of people waiting for a Dev to crack open a red bull and port an emulator in their free time in their parent's basement, they should find a way to make some awesome games for the wiz and focus their energy on that.

Porting an emulator is much easier than making a clone of a game, I'm not sure you really understand what you're saying. You just don't really get it. Programmers are programmers, not game designers. A great emulator programmer can't automatically divert that energy to make a game. If that were the case don't you think there'd be a lot more quality games that didn't take at least tens of thousands of dollars to produce..?

And I'd like to know why you felt like arbitrarily insulting emulator authors by claiming they live in their parent's basement.. Not very nice for the target group you expect to pull off heavy feats of labor for you.