Next pandora (competition model)

[anexanhume]

My understanding is that the only processor available in pandora quantities is a slightly higher clocked cortex A8 derivative. If that's the case, why bother pushing forward with what will essentially be a casing/screen update? I would think people would want at least a dual-core cortex A15 in the next pandora. That would make emulation of N64, saturn, psx and DC a lot better.

 

[milkshake]

what are you on about? where do you get your info from? the pandora 2 CPU if and when this is coming true will not be the A8, ed might have mentioned that as a replacement for the pandora 1 if its needed.

 

[Prometheus]

It's subjective, and we've been through this a lot before, but I agree with him. I can easily see ghosting on my unit, as well as the LCD I had with a bare Pandora board back in 2008. Not sure what DS Lite is like because I've only played a few games on mine before it broke, and they were obviously all designed with the screen in mind. GP2X seems like it had less ghosting, and going by the spec sheets Pandora's LCD isn't exactly leading the curve on response time.

Oh, I know it's subjective.


But I stand by what I've said previously: I really do think that there are noticeable variances between individual units, in addition to that. Of my four, one did ghost more than the rest and had worse black levels.

Which leads to the next point - you can do better in terms of response time and black levels while still on LCD, without going to OLED.. obviously you won't do as well so it's up to the viewer if it's "good enough." On the other hand, Pandora's LCD has very low power consumption, so the tradeoffs are all going to be a matter of what's important to you.

I don't disagree. (I would have to say that I think that those things are definitely better on the displays of the 3DS than they are on the Pandora, for example.)


I do hope they don't go with OLED, myself, though. It's the most unimpressive "advance" (complete with giant steps backward like screen-rot and burn-in) I've ever seen, personally. :lol: I'm sure someone will disagree with this, but I'm only speaking from experience - the LCDs I have look much better, and don't have the drawbacks. I keep stuff for a very long time, and I expect it to still be usable later.

 

[Korlithiel]

Of note, the following thoughts were inspired by this thread more than anything since it's been quite some time since I had a working Pandora last and longer still sine I gave the P2 any thought.


Features I would need to see on a new generation Pandora to definitely convince me to purchase again:


-Improved hinge design. The current one is extremely problematic and cuts into my usage rather notably since I've found (when I've had a working Pandora) that it not maintaining the only comfortable angles means it's left all the way open generally, which means no gaming due to discomfort. I really don't care how difficult this is to implement, it's above all other features (aside from the given increases in CPU and such). I suspect it just not being able to open all the way would do alright, just slightly past being straight up by a small bit.


-GPS, I doubt the cost of this is significant to the point where it can't be included and would definitely be a notable boon to my life since I won't be purchasing a phone with such a feature for some time to come. Either this, or a built in FM receiver.


-Slightly smaller design. It's difficult to fit in pockets as it is, enough so that I either need to consider changing how I clothe myself or not use a Pandora. For reference, the 3DS is about the upper limit to what I've found is a reasonable size for a pocketable device.


-SDXC support. SDHC was great, and dual slots was awesome. On the follow-up model I want to see at least one SDXC slot, with dual being nice but unlikely necessary.


-Wireless 802.11 G/N support.


-Maintain as much of the current design while implementing the above. I greatly enjoyed the wheel for volume and the headphone port placement. Same goes for the stylus placement and overall design.


Features I would really love, but don't think are necessary:


-FM receiver, as the battery life on the P1 is phenomenal and I would like to be able to enjoy music while out and about beyond what I've preloaded. I'm beginning to feel this is no longer necessary, as I build a collection. Mainly I don't prioritize it as much as I would for a device built for my desires and needs, due to others being against it despite the extremely low cost to implement when compared to GPS in terms of cost, size, and power.


-More keyboard keys. The debate, and the end result of the Pandora team overruling the community about the key layout, as well as what little personal use I've managed has all left me thinking a couple more keys, possibly a redesign, is worth looking into.


-L2&R2 triggers. I know this would likely be too difficult to implement, but I would rather appreciate it for the few PS1 games that use them and for general gaming. Might not hurt to spend more time considering the analog sticks.


-Bigger screen. The current one works fine enough, aside from being a bit hard to enjoy visually. But noting the current complaints about programs not being able to port to the exact screen size or whatever it is, I would like some thought given for that reason more than anything.


-Backlit keys, or possibly just glow in the dark to make them a bit more visible and give the system a bit of a green on black feel. To me this is a low priority since it wasn't too hard to mostly close the unit to clearly see the keys, but it would certainly be helpful.

 

[gotwake424]

Just don't change the audiophile quality we already have!


thanks MWeston

 

[anexanhume]

what are you on about? where do you get your info from? the pandora 2 CPU if and when this is coming true will not be the A8, ed might have mentioned that as a replacement for the pandora 1 if its needed.

From Ed's wording it sounded like that was the case for A8 and A9 processors. Perhaps I misunderstood what he said.

 

[milkshake]

he didnt mean that for the pandora successor though he meant that for a pandora 1.5 or incase it was needed during pandora 1 lifecycle

 

[sukhi2011]

Lot of saying of pandora 2 from everyone,nice ideas but we will need the next system to be powerful,which can emulate n64,3do,jaguar,saturn,dreamcast,wii.


The specs it should have:


Cpu: Arm cortex 1,500-2000ghz processor


Ram: 1gb or 2gb


Video card: radeon or geforce or any good one better than p1,plus opengl driver


Screen size: 5" lcd screen,which looks good as hd plus should have s-video,dvi,hdmi ports


Speakers: bigger ones with louder,clearer sound


other features g-sensor,pivot function,camera (5-8 mega pixel still image and hd 720p,1080i,1080p video recorder,2 or 4 usb ports,new design which looks like a laptop.


More ideas it will better with more than 2 sd card slots,hinge click when gets to half way,clamshell is the best for stand and typing with keyboard,better shoulder buttons L1/L2/R1/R2.


I also agree with 3d graphics but it should be on screen and with 3d glasses which openpandora should release special 3d glasses so we can use with apps and games,emulators.

 

[mjohansson]

I just came to think of something more:


video input!

 

[EvilDragon]

A lot of things I've been reading here would double to triple the production costs


Some information about what I had in mind (though it's still far away...)...


1. Higher resolution screen. Maybe a bit bigger, depends on what's available. Speakers would have to be moved, but we got some ideas.


2. More recent SoC. Depending on what we can get. Normally, you have to buy at least 100,000 CortexA9 to even get them from TI... so there will be a lot of discussion needed to be done.


3. Keep most of the form factor we have like it is: It's been proven to work, no one wants a bigger unit, so don't change that.


4. Hardware update: Maybe UMTS (depends on license costs), faster WiFi, etc.


What's interesting is that some users want MORE features in LESS space... hell, the Pandora 1 PCB is so cramped already, that we didn't manage to put an USB Hub onto the PCB... how can we add even more stuff in less space?


Some things are just impossible.


Also, 3D Graphics, SDXC, etc. mostly depends on the SoC - as that's all built-in and NOT external chips... adding external 3D GPUs or similar things might increase the costs per Pandora to 600 - 800 EUR... not sure you'd want that

 

[Exophase]

What would double or triple production costs? Adding an external GPU is not even an option regardless of cost.


You can get an Amlogic Cortex-A9 SoC like what's in that Yinlips console, but you don't want that. Personally I think i.MX6 looks good for a number of reasons, but I have no idea when they'll finally be available.. I'm assuming you'll be able to buy them from distributors like all the other i.MX chips. It was announced nearly a year ago but I haven't heard anything about getting them since..


Using an i.MX6 would save space vs the current setup on things like voltage shifters and probably allow a smaller PMIC. You could also save space by scrapping one or potentially both of the nub controllers. Not to mention, using small potentiometers would probably leave more board space. I'm sure there's a lot of things you could do. Personally I would trade features for space though - I wouldn't mind it being slightly longer (in fact, I think it'd be more comfortable to hold).. what I would not want is for it to be thicker. I'd prefer it were thinner.

 

[EvilDragon]

What would double or triple production costs? Adding an external GPU is not even an option regardless of cost.

Adding all the various options I've seen here... GPS, FM Radio, UMTS, Higher resolution OLED (would probably cost 200 EUR alone), DAB, DVB, very good speakers, etc.)


LCD being a cost-factor... it's still the most expensive part of the Pandora (costs twice as much as the OMAP).

You can get an Amlogic Cortex-A9 SoC like what's in that Yinlips console, but you don't want that. Personally I think i.MX6 looks good for a number of reasons, but I have no idea when they'll finally be available.. I'm assuming you'll be able to buy them from distributors like all the other i.MX chips. It was announced nearly a year ago but I haven't heard anything about getting them since..

Well, we'll try with TI. The German division is also located in Munich... so I got the production company, one of the biggest TI Part distributors AND TI all here right round the corner. That should work out.

 

[Prometheus]

very good speakers, etc.

I'd be happy with the same speakers, myself.


I just don't like the idea that some have stated elsewhere, that there should be no speakers at all. :lol:

 

[TheGrandPubaa]

I'd love a tablet mode in a Pandora 2 redesign, but i'm aware that there are patent/licensing/durability issues which probably make this unfeasible.

 

[GizmoAgent]

4. Hardware update: Maybe UMTS (depends on license costs), faster WiFi, etc.

Lets not add UMTS/LTE etc, most if not everyone has a phone and youeither already pay for data or have data bundled with your contract.


Lets just work on better tethering support.


Just a thought.

 

[fusion_power]

Adding all the various options I've seen here... GPS, FM Radio, UMTS, Higher resolution OLED (would probably cost 200 EUR alone), DAB, DVB, very good speakers, etc.)

I agree. If people want this, they should buy a smartphone.


However, I would like to know if these Pixel Qi LCDs are cheap enough for our needs. They were invented for the 100$ Laptop so the price was a important factor in Development. And it would be cool to have a full outdoor capable Handheld Screen. However I doubt they have the needed size in stock, developing an screen exclussive for the Pandora would be of course a expencive thing.

 

[EvilDragon]

Adding all the various options I've seen here... GPS, FM Radio, UMTS, Higher resolution OLED (would probably cost 200 EUR alone), DAB, DVB, very good speakers, etc.)

I agree. If people want this, they should buy a smartphone.


However, I would like to know if these Pixel Qi LCDs are cheap enough for our needs. They were invented for the 100$ Laptop so the price was a important factor in Development. And it would be cool to have a full outdoor capable Handheld Screen. However I doubt they have the needed size in stock, developing an screen exclussive for the Pandora would be of course a expencive thing.

The problems with LCDs is: It's all about the size.


Bigger LCDs are cheap to get with higher resolutions. It's the small size that makes them this expensive.


The OLPC screen is 7,5", that's a lot bigger than our Pandora screen.

 

[Exophase]

I know I saw a quote for a 5" 800x480 LCD for $15 from a Hong Kong supplier (that was for 5000). Much better response time than Pandora's, but used much more power. This was from a Taiwanese manufacturer, as far as I can remember Pandora's is as well. I'd still go for this without question vs Pandora's when there's such a big battery.


If TI gives you better accessibility to better chips or it has good pricing then great, but I wouldn't go with TI just because they're TI, or just because Pandora 1 uses it.

 

[Stradian]

Whats the rave about expansion modules, or Features like GPS / electronic compass? What are doing, trying to turn the pandora into a gadget Dick Tracy would be proud of? The reason the pandora has a usb port is to accommodate extra abilities any computer can take on. The usb port really is one of the pandora's better features.

 

[Exophase]

And OPT had the good sense not to put the USB port or other expansion ports on the side where they get in the way when you actually want to hold the thing *cough*GP2X*cough* ~_~ (sorry, just felt it needed to be said w/regard to the USB side expansion concept)