News from the embedded world

[WizardStan]

Wouldn't it be relatively easy to find out which processes are using the UTMS module and kill them?

It should be, just "lsof | grep /dev/ttyWhateverTheModemIs"But if you're already compromised then it's possible they've managed to replace lsof (or even libc) so that it doesn't show the malicious process. I'm pretty certain that that'll never happen though.

 

[EvilDragon]

I wonder what the difference is in power consumption between an A7 used near 100%, and an A15 at 25% or so (or whatever is equivalent with the A7 task) with proper power saving.

Yes, that's actually what I'm wondering myself.

For Android, it really makes sense, as a lot of daemons are running in the background even when the phone is only lying around.

For those, A7 with 200 MHz should be fine, and that saves some power.

On the Pandora, we don't really have those daemons. And when the A15 is idling, it doesn't need a lot of power anyways when proper power saving is enabled (similar to the Pandora, which can lie around for 100 hours without being switched off or charged)

One core on the OMAP5 running with 500MHz is about as fast as a 1GHz Pandora.

We haven't checked yet how low you can clock the OMAP5, but if it goes down to 200MHz, it would probably be about a Pandora running at 500 - 600 MHz. Are there many programs that use LESS CPU Power than that?

 

[Saber]

If the UMTS warning light is on, how do I handle the intrusion or whatever you'd like to call it?

Flip the power switch, put it to sleep? Can't read your secrets if the CPU isn't ticking. Or just turn it right off, I'd imagine. Reboot into a special "why is my Pyra doing that" SD card to do a virus scan.

I'm a bit confused and would like to know what optional means here

The module in question comes in 2 different types for different regions. Presumably ED will have make some number with the European chip, some with the American chip, and some that simply won't be populated at all.

Thanks WizardStan. As someone who has zero interest in 3G, I'll take the third door.

Optional means the module is expensive (the actual hardware), so if you don't pay for it you don't get it.


I don't think we really need such a warning light. If you're paranoid about it, don't get the module.

Is the module that expensive though that ED will populate according to territorial demand? ED?

 

[comradekingu]

Check out http://www.altera.com/devices/processor/soc-fpga/arria10-soc/arria10-soc.html Altera Booth: Hall 4, Stand 450

http://www.altera.com/education/events/europe/evt-embedded-world.html

ARM will be located at Stand 4-350  Could maybe help with point out which linux friendly manufacturers have SoCs with mali graphics

DENX is there too

 

[Reyhn]

Is there a SoC from Qualcomm other than the 805 that is more appealing than the OMAP5? I know there was concern about the lack of proper hardware scaling.. but not sure if that was just hearsay or what not.

Snapdragon 801 anyone ?

Don't really know how it compares to OMAP5 (it's basically an enhanced SD 800), and about availability.

 

[WizardStan]

Is the module that expensive though that ED will populate according to territorial demand? ED?

I can't speak for what ED can get, but I'm seeing single chips for 57 EUR for the European/American versions, 67 EUR for the "world" version, and 105EUR for the 4G versions.

 

[Exophase]

One core on the OMAP5 running with 500MHz is about as fast as a 1GHz Pandora.

We haven't checked yet how low you can clock the OMAP5, but if it goes down to 200MHz, it would probably be about a Pandora running at 500 - 600 MHz. Are there many programs that use LESS CPU Power than that?

I think you're overestimating the Cortex-A15.

If anyone really wants to compare A7 vs A15 power consumption at different points on a real hardware platform get an Odroid-XU+E. http://hardkernel.com/main/products/prdt_info.php?g_code=G137463363079&tab_idx=3 I think you will find that A7 offers substantially better perf/W than A15 at every point on their respective curves.

 

[Foxgod]

Nice update, good to hear you have been checking out the options, and i like the module feature.

 

[EvilDragon]

Sure, the A7 has a better perf/W.

But how many apps would really make use of that instead of the faster A15 SoC?

And how much would that be in battery time?

 

[Exophase]

Sure, the A7 has a better perf/W.

But how many apps would really make use of that instead of the faster A15 SoC?

Like I said before: almost everything that runs fine on 1GHz Pandora would run fine if the A7s are at least 1.2GHz. A lot of things would run better than on 1GHz, especially things that can take advantage of multiple cores.

And how much would that be in battery time?

If the SoC were all that was running, probably a lot. That's not the case, and I don't know how much power the RAM and display (among other things) are using so I couldn't say.

 

[kingoddball]

After reading that Blog post... I am a very happy man!

Thanks ED!

(Possible future upgradable board! Love it!! Switch for eMMC/uSD!!)

Same as a previous post - TAKE MY MONEY!

Keep the blogs coming!!

 

[fusion_power]

Is there a SoC from Qualcomm other than the 805 that is more appealing than the OMAP5? I know there was concern about the lack of proper hardware scaling.. but not sure if that was just hearsay or what not.

The current 800 maybe, and in the future their 64bit SoC.


Don't know about scaling though (would be crucial for a FullHD screen).

If I read the Snapdragon family datasheets correctly, the 805 is the top model and a real beast so no wonder that it's power consumption is high. Besides the 800 there should be also still the 600 series, not sure how good it is but on paper it sounds not that bad and more important, it needs less power.

However, I'm fine with the OMAP5, the modular Pyra board design that may even allow to switch to an x86 processor is a great idea to have more options for the future. I would like to know how this boards are placed and connected, the space is limited inside the Handheld. Or does it even come as external "SoC module" that you plug in like an game cartridge into an Gameboy? 

 

[Saber]

Is the module that expensive though that ED will populate according to territorial demand? ED?

I can't speak for what ED can get, but I'm seeing single chips for 57 EUR for the European/American versions, 67 EUR for the "world" version, and 105EUR for the 4G versions.

Wow, quite the module premium there.

Wonder what pricing for the Pyra UMTS model(s) will end up being. 

 

[vcoleiro1]

I love the swappable SOC,RAM and eMMC module idea.   That will work wonders to keep the Pyra future proof.  

And adding the switchable SIM/uSD is a great solution also. Well played ED, well played.

 

[rohezal]

Someone posted a graphics about it in some thread. A 100% A7 needed less power then a 1% A15.

 

[Natsu]

1. What storage is best?
I guess 16GB for the eMMMc it is then? Are you going be selling SanDisk Extreme Pro Class 10 and SanDisk Ultra microSD in you shop?

 
2. UMTS and a hardware switch

 

I don't think we really need such a warning light. If you're paranoid about it, don't get the module.

I kind of agree.
 
 
3. Intel and everything else

I also visited Qualcomm and got another contact for getting the Snapdragon. The 805 will be too power hungry for mobile devices though (it's mostly aimed at tablets), so it won't be usable for us.
But I'll keep you informed about any further updates.

You mean even for general use case or depending how much we use of the power?
 
 

I think we should not hold on to the release of the Pyra any longer.  Let's go with OMAP5 right now, and since it's a mother-daughter design, we can by a new daughter board with a different and more powerful SoC later when ED makes it.  I'm good with OMAP5 for now...

Yeah, no. If he can wait, I see no reason why he won't. That way he can start off with the best
that he can.
 

Snapdragon 801 anyone ?
Don't really know how it compares to OMAP5 (it's basically an enhanced SD 800), and about availability.

This.

Should I just wait for the 64bit and 4G model? :lol:

Also, I'm guessing there will still be a Pandora3/Pyra 2 even with the swappable module?

 

[vcoleiro1]

One of the things that was really bothering me about a future proof solution module, was that , if the Pyra was to be future proof, it really needed a way for which the storage solution could be upgraded to higher speeds. For example, no matter what eMMC or uSD we could have added now, if they weren't on a replaceable module as ED is now planning. We would be stuck with the speeds those solutions offered now.  Putting them both on replaceable modules(with SOC and RAM) will allow future modules that can handle emmc 5 or greater in the future and potentially higher speed UHS-II or UHS-III etc uSD card cradles in the future.   

I think ED has done a really great job at coming up with a future proof solution.

 

[EvilDragon]

Someone posted a graphics about it in some thread. A 100% A7 needed less power then a 1% A15.

I'm not sure you can generalize it like that.

Power usage of A15 cores are already very different in low-speed areas, depending on what tricks the manufacturers put into the power save mode.

And % also depends on the CPU Speed.

If the A15 can do 2,2GHz (100%) and the A7 can do 1GHz (100%), it would be a lot different than an A15 that can do 1,5GHz (100%) and an A7 that can do 1GHz (100%).

 

[Exophase]

Someone posted a graphics about it in some thread. A 100% A7 needed less power then a 1% A15.

Not sure what this is or where it was posted, but it was probably a misinterpretation of data. Maybe from the Odroid-XU+E video? You can't look at quickly changing values because there's no guarantee that they'll be well correlated. It could say 1.5W for the A15 cluster while only showing 1% usage, but maybe that 1.5W and 1% were sampled at slightly different times and really the 1.5W was taken over a period where the CPU was always on.

The best thing to do is not look at fluctuating numbers while it's running some GPU benchmark or some other sporadic task like web browsing but get some task that runs at 100% and lock down the clock speeds. Or if you want to look at efficiency in scaling with clock gating run code that sleeps for a certain percentage of the time with a relatively tight duty cycle, like awake 25ms, sleep 25ms.

And of course then look at some benchmarks to correlate performance of the A15s vs A7s at different clock speeds. A15 may average out with something like 1.8-1.9x the perf/MHz as A7 but the actual amounts vary a lot on a case by case basis.

 

[SNESFAN]

What type of connection will be used to upgrade the SoC? Is there a spec for it or is it something you guys are building in house? Next question, do you guys still plan on releasing the schematics of the entire device? This would be a great opportunity to create a standard where one might not exist. Can you identify exactly which parts and signal/power for the connection will be on the daughter board in case someone would want to design a daughter board of their own and sell them? This could be big ED, real big.