New Video From Pickle

[JayFoxRox]

Notaz: Aren't you under some NDA or so if you get one of the dev units?

However its extremly rude to get one of those and then talk bad about it as it could fuckup the sales of the final unit.
It didn't sound like you were trying to fix those bugs or so but just said: "hey.. its crashing all the time".
I doubt the problem is too bad as I found some stable kernel for my beagleboard too, so this is anti-marketing speech if you ask me, especially if I remember your Dev-Unit topic in which you also talk about the problems your hardware has. You should be more clear that it is a dev unit and you should think if your updates are really that supporting for the team. They give you this extremly expensive prototype (for free probably) and in return they expect that you work on the software front or point out problems, possibly even advertise for the final product by taking videos and photos. The team send you one of these units as they except that the outcome is that the cost of the dev-unit will be returning in form of new customers because of good software.
However, what you did so far is blame the hardware or point out its deficits, not talking much about the positive aspects, blame the software and show basicly nothing.

Sorry if this is wrong, but thats what it looks like to me. And I read lots of stuff on this forum, people who read less even get a worse impression. You should probably put disclaimers around your posts (Or atleast put them in a proper context and explain all bits like you did in your edit).

---

Nice video as always, even if the apps are not really my cup of tea

//Edit: sorry for highjacking the topic, this was not my intention. I also didn't know that you (notaz) were one of the persons who work on the OS / Kernel because I mainly see DJWillis talking on the IRC and I don't check these kind of updates that often neither. However,I still think that some people could misinterpret your posts if they don't give enough context. Sometimes not saying something is better than only talking about one half. I'm not saying you are trying to harm the sales of the device, but in some way you possibly do and I just wanted to point that out before customers drop off.
I also like facts, but "its crashing" (which is something bad in my opinion), is not just as good as: "todays kernel crashes often on my particular dev-unit, however, the previous one worked fine so I might retry tomorrow or fix it myself"

 

[PokeParadox]

Notaz: Aren't you under some NDA or so if you get one of the dev units?

However its extremly rude to get one of those and then talk bad about it as it could fuckup the sales of the final unit.
It didn't sound like you were trying to fix those bugs or so but just said: "hey.. its crashing all the time".
I doubt the problem is too bad as I found some stable kernel for my beagleboard too, so this is anti-marketing speech if you ask me, especially if I remember your Dev-Unit topic in which you also talk about the problems your hardware has. You should be more clear that it is a dev unit and you should think if your updates are really that supporting for the team. They give you this extremly expensive prototype (for free probably) and in return they expect that you work on the software front or point out problems, possibly even advertise for the final product by taking videos and photos. The team send you one of these units as they except that the outcome is that the cost of the dev-unit will be returning in form of new customers because of good software.
However, what you did so far is blame the hardware or point out its deficits, not talking much about the positive aspects, blame the software and show basicly nothing.

Sorry if this is wrong, but thats what it looks like to me. And I read lots of stuff on this forum, people who read less even get a worse impression. You should probably put disclaimers around your posts (Or atleast put them in a proper context and explain all bits like you did in your edit).

---

Nice video as always, even if the apps are not really my cup of tea

I think the point was... the current firmware that Notaz has on HIS specific dev unit is crashing and for that reason he can't test PandoraPanic!. IIRC Notaz actually works on aspects of the FW so it could just be he is in the middle of re-writing some code, etc.

 

[Adventus]

Notaz: Aren't you under some NDA or so if you get one of the dev units?

There isn't any NDA in any formal sense.

However, what you did so far is blame the hardware or point out its deficits, not talking much about the positive aspects, blame the software and show basicly nothing.

I don't think there would be a functioning Pandora if it wasn't for Notaz, He's done alot of the OS work. I just think he's feeling under appreciated (and rightly so), people like Pickle and myself make some nice video's of stuff that is relatively easy (ie ports) and he gets stuck doing the actual labor when he could be working on his own projects (like myself). He has easily contributed 10x the cost of the prototype in work hours.

 

[gruso]

Jay, do you realise that without Notaz & DJWillis we probably wouldn't even have an operating system?

[edit] Point made by Adventus.

 

[notaz]

oh dear. that doesn't sound positive :blink:

It aint that bad, the touchbook doesn't have much developers too (expecting community help). GPH has paid developers, but they lack skill. Both didn't end up with completely unusable devices

However its extremly rude to get one of those and then talk bad about it as it could fuckup the sales of the final unit.

So I should go around telling everyone lies about how perfect it is and ignoring the real situation just because I have one prototype and a few boards? There is no way the software will be perfect given the resources we have. In fact I see too much hype all around here, people expecting some god-sent device with everything related to it is perfect and no less. The software will have rough edges, there will be some hardware flaws, we are all going to die (eventually).

I doubt the problem is too bad as I found some stable kernel for my beagleboard too,

Where did I claim it was good/bad/whatever? I just said it was crashing, and that happens often in various stages of development, people might want to know that.

so this is anti-marketing speech if you ask me, especially if I remember your Dev-Unit topic in which you also talk about the problems your hardware has. You should be more clear that it is a dev unit

Wasn't I clear it was a dev unit there? Yes I'm horrible with marketing, and it's one of things that I hate in general.

They give you this extremly expensive prototype (for free probably) and in return they expect that you work on the software front or point out problems, possibly even advertise for the final product by taking videos and photos. The team send you one of these units as they except that the outcome is that the cost of the dev-unit will be returning in form of new customers because of good software.

I don't know how much you are aware about my involvement in this project, but I believe I've invested enough to cover those costs.

However, what you did so far is blame the hardware or point out its deficits, not talking much about the positive aspects, blame the software and show basicly nothing.

Oh really? I wonder whose youtube video found it's way to slashdot a while back.

You should probably put disclaimers around your posts (Or atleast put them in a proper context and explain all bits like you did in your edit).

I agree with this one, I need some signature I guess. Hm, something in style of "WARNING: bla bla bla..". Maybe somebody can write me one.

--
Sorry for littering this thread with some ego-crap.

 

[Phawx]

@jayfoxrox

I appreciate your contributions as much as Notaz, so please don't take this a bad way. But I more or less understood what Notaz was saying, I merely wanted to inform him that words on these forums are stretched like putty to fill in the gaps. Sometimes it paints a different picture.

However, I find it VERY refreshing to read Notaz' notes. He is, what I believe, being fair. He is telling it like it is and not sugar coating it. He doesn't need to. If I haven't asked for a refund from all of the delays, the little particulars Notaz is telling us won't really change my mind either.

It's actually the opposite. Notaz is making me realize what I should expect when I get my Pandora. If he didn't give his pro's and con's, I could only go on what Craig has told me. (that bit with him throwing the stylus at the screen) The video that ED showed with how well the stylus snaps in was nice though.

Yes, the case was abused by Craig and then given to Notaz. But still. I appreciate the input from Notaz. The only reason I can see Notaz elaborating is to put some people at ease.

 

[mali]

I agree, Phawx
I appreciate Notaz' direct speak, I must admit. Some reality check now and then can only be a good thing

 

[Monk]

So I should go around telling everyone lies about how perfect it is and ignoring the real situation just because I have one prototype and a few boards?

No - plain straight honesty, even (especially?) where inconvenient is far better.

There is no way the software will be perfect given the resources we have. In fact I see too much hype all around here, people expecting some god-sent device with everything related to it is perfect and no less. The software will have rough edges, there will be some hardware flaws, we are all going to die (eventually).

What? Now I'm sad. All of us? Can I be the exception that proves the rule?

I agree with this one, I need some signature I guess. Hm, something in style of "WARNING: bla bla bla..". Maybe somebody can write me one.

It works as-is doesn't it? After all, marketing bs is exactly that - bs. bla bla bla sums it up nicely!

 

[Enverex]

Anyway, getting back on topic: It seemed to be struggling badly at a few points on Hexen, is that likely to improve over time? (either with the port itself being improved or the Pandora's own software being improved).

 

[MWeston]

I do my best to show my respect and admiration for Notaz's work with everything he does and whenever I get to make a new Youtube video. Perhaps it isn't enough. I just don't want to sound like a giant brown noser.

It's worth saying again that Notaz's work on the kernel is clearly the reason the device is as advanced as it is today. Sure the hardware may have come along fine with minimal testing as the assembler learned how to solder the boards better but Notaz has helped me develop a comprehensive suite of test software that has helped the assembler perfect their process. So good in fact that they have started building a batch of 1000 this week after tweaking their pilot runs.

 

[Phawx]

Nice to hear. Makes me so glad I am in that batch!

 

[Dead1nside]

From what I know about the project, as has already been said by others, is that without DJWillis and notaz there wouldn't be much of anything of an OS or firmware. I can't over state how much I obviously appreciate their work on this. But likewise I appreciate software devs like JayFoxRox too. I basically appreciate everybody who's working to get this awesome thing, with awesome software in my hands.

I don't mind whatever anyone says about the Pandora, if that's their opinion. I'd rather have as much information as possible and decide myself. I think it's good to realise that even when we do get it in our hands there'll still be a lot of work to do and it may be imperfect in areas.

Just thank you to everyone who's doing work on this, none of you're getting paid. I hope our thanks is enough. I hope the dev fund will be in some way used to thank you all.

 

[gaterooze]

Notaz was one of the defining figures of the GP2X scene and he is already that for the Pandora - even if he didn't do another thing, he has surely contributed more than most people ever will. Please know that your efforts are absolutely appreciated by many people, Notaz, thank you.

 

[MWeston]

From what I know about the project, as has already been said by others, is that without DJWillis and notaz there wouldn't be much of anything of an OS or firmware. I can't over state how much I obviously appreciate their work on this. But likewise I appreciate software devs like JayFoxRox too. I basically appreciate everybody who's working to get this awesome thing, with awesome software in my hands.

I don't mind whatever anyone says about the Pandora, if that's their opinion. I'd rather have as much information as possible and decide myself. I think it's good to realise that even when we do get it in our hands there'll still be a lot of work to do and it may be imperfect in areas.

Just thank you to everyone who's doing work on this, none of you're getting paid. I hope our thanks is enough. I hope the dev fund will be in some way used to thank you all.

Oh you can be completely sure there will be lots to do in the software when Pandora ships. What we have now is a working foundation that allows the hardware to be tested properly and shipped to customers with some fantastic effort from DJ Willis to put a front end on the kernel so games and apps can be used. Combine that with efforts from a handful of other guys porting things, testing packagers, personalizing the format of menus, building up SDK functionality and you pretty much have this whole project nailed. More boards than not have been sent out that are just collecting dust but the folks you know and see around the forums talking about updates are the ones still devoting some time to it.

People see the Engadget articles and suddenly we must be Sony but it's just a small group of volunteers crawling along trying to make this happen, supported by a great cast of die hard, extremely trusting fans who have followed this project through a lot of shitty missed delivery dates.

I'm so looking forward to being done with this first batch. Final test cases should ship tonight then hopefully at least 1000 more on Feb.13. Boards are being assembled by the hundreds each day and we're going to just keep going until all 4000 are ready and tested with no break. The wait is finally coming to an end. The trolls will have to move on to batch #2 I guess.

 

[EvilDragon]

It's no wonder the last firmware images did crash, as there are some half-implemented things in there.
An older image (from before christmas) runs stable but had some issues like slow working WiFi, a hacked up touchscreen driver, etc.
DJWillis even was online with xchat for a few days with that image.

Now we're using XInput for touchscreen driver which is working way better. This needed a new X version (AFAIK) and not all things have been fixed yet.
SDL crashing is one of the last serious issues at the moment. PND Discovery does work, XFCE4 works nicely, SDL did work at some point and I'm sure it'll be fixed up.

After all, there are some rocksolid devs behind it (DJWillis, notaz, skeezix, vimacs, cpasjuste). Their time is limited, but I'll know it'll work out

We always said there are much of tweaks and things needed to fix after release. But all the basic stuff should work fine

And I want to make one thing clear: I want to support all the devs that did help out as good as I can. When we finally have at least our costs back, we'll also be willing to give them some nice donation or whatever they want. You know I always tried to support the scene as good as I could - but without much cash I'm a bit limited at the moment.

 

[neomaster321365]

I'm so looking forward to being done with this first batch. Final test cases should ship tonight then hopefully at least 1000 more on Feb.13. Boards are being assembled by the hundreds each day and we're going to just keep going until all 4000 are ready and tested with no break. The wait is finally coming to an end. The trolls will have to move on to batch #2 I guess.

1000 final cases? Is that what you're thinking will happen, or is that just an "I hope at least..."? Obviously the community is hoping for 4000 by February 13th!

 

[calc84maniac]

Can the factory do 1000 cases and 1000 keymats per day, or should they be getting started on the keymats while we wait for the green light?

 

[senorgomez]

I like Notaz's black humor

Lithuanian humor is great.

 

[Creature XL]

Final test cases should ship tonight

Did anyone remember that the final test cases should have been send the past week-end?

 

[gruso]

Yep, they sure did.