My Pandora 2 and ICP2 Keyboard Layout, GCW One/Dual(February 18th 2013)

[Saber]

Cool, so many changes~

Thanks SONY.


I was going for practicality this round.

 

[FRZ]

A different form factor for the Pandora isn't really for those who envisioned and bought the Pandora in the first place. The physical keyboard, gaming controls and clam shell design are the primary reasons I'm here. The only other form factor I would go for is a sliding and preferably tilted device with the same specs. Anyway, all the other form factor devices mentioned in your concepts designs already exist.

 

[Saber]

A different form factor for the Pandora isn't really for those who envisioned and bought the Pandora in the first place. The physical keyboard, gaming controls and clam shell design are the primary reasons I'm here. The only other form factor I would go for is a sliding and preferably tilted device with the same specs.

Actually, they had a few non-clamshell concepts before they settled on the current one. A slider though would be my personal preference. Lowered costs for both the manufacturer and the consumer is why I introduced more than one choice in my opening post.

Anyway, all the other form factor devices mentioned in your concepts designs already exist.

So what? We can't just use form factor as the criteria for condemnation. The Pandora looks like a Nintendo DS clone, so does that mean OP must stop production immediately because they are copying an older handheld's form factor? Obviously not. They should be allowed to improve upon it, which they have, and hopefully through conceptualization for the clamshell and slate, I have. Quality and open source functionality are sadly lacking in those other existing products. I see it in the world's favor if more than one type of Pandora existed.

 

[Saber]

Some minor changes and timely omissions.

 

[FRZ]

Muy muy better. The I. Pandora2 look pretty much like what I would like the unit to look but, make it a complete 5", 5.3", 5.5" or maybe even 6", as long as there are no bezzels around the screen making the unit bulky.


Send from my ZTE Warp

 

[albo]

Nice job Saber Even then 4 shoulder buttons fit very well now

 

[Saber]

Muy muy better. The I. Pandora2 look pretty much like what I would like the unit to look but, make it a complete 5", 5.3", 5.5" or maybe even 6", as long as there are no bezzels around the screen making the unit bulky.


Send from my ZTE Warp

Thank you frz. I really like the new P2 concept as well. It's a modest improvement on an already superb design.


About the screen size, I used the Galaxy S3's panel for a reference to the limit the screen size can reasonably go up to. For comparison, the S3 has dimensions of 136.6×70.6×8.6mm with a 4.8" screen while our beloved Pandora 1 is 140×83×27mm. Still, it gives some breathing room for maybe a full 5" LCD. Would love to see a Pandora 2 with a front and back lid camera for Skype on the go. :wub:

Nice job Saber Even then 4 shoulder buttons fit very well now

Hi albo, as always, thanks very much. Four shoulder buttons would really benefit some PS1 games that require them like Twisted Metal 2(a personal favorite), and admittedly I thought pretty hard on where they could be placed as you'll read below.


Well, to help solve this minor issue(and not having a Pandora 1 currently), I used a box of similar dimensions I had fabricated to size to see how my hands fit when gaming and keyboarding. This is when I had a "eureka" moment and thought why not add them to the underside, but in a bit deeper toward the center more rather than just below the original L1 and L2 triggers. I noticed by observation that when we shift our index fingers from the shoulders to the underside, that our finger tips actually reach further inward, which makes L2 and R2 ideally located for gaming on a handheld computer.


Hope what I said makes sense. As you can see in the concepts, everything should work beyond external aesthetics and be ergonomically sound(also fit internally modulewise on the board), and compliment further what we all like on the current Pandora.

 

[Saber]

I know this wasn't mentioned but I wanted to add that I chose mini DisplayPort over HDMI for two reasons:


1. The adapter I suggested is super cheap at $2(besides you'd still need to carry around a dongle anyways if the P2 likely used a mini or micro HDMI to hook up to a full HDMI port).


2. Those annual HDMI fees can get expensive and are unnecessary really with a $2 mDisP to HDMI adapter.


The other thing on my mind was I added micro USB(OTG) wall charging because, looking at the Nexus 7 which charges its 4325 mAh battery by µUSB cable from the wall at around 4 hours, the Pandora 4200 mAh should top off at around the same time with the added bonus that most people already have this type of cable for charging their cellphone.


/ End Rant B)

 

[Grench]

I know this wasn't mentioned but I wanted to add that I chose mini DisplayPort over HDMI for two reasons:


1. The adapter I suggested is super cheap at $2(besides you'd still need to carry around a dongle anyways if the P2 likely used a mini or micro HDMI to hook up to a full HDMI port).


2. Those annual HDMI fees can get expensive and are unnecessary really with a $2 mDisP to HDMI adapter.


The other thing on my mind was I added micro USB(OTG) wall charging because, looking at the Nexus 7 which charges its 4325 mAh battery by µUSB cable from the wall at around 4 hours, the Pandora 4200 mAh should top off at around the same time with the added bonus that most people already have this type of cable for charging their cellphone.


/ End Rant B)

I could see that - the only catch is that the displayport itself is a pretty big port. It is slightly larger than a full sized USB host port. It IS smaller than a VGA port or DVI port though.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lenovo_x220.jpg


It's primary advantage is that you can go from it to pretty much any connector under the sun with a simple adapter cable.


That Vs micro-hdmi at 1/4 (or so) the size.


If there is room, then...


1. micro-usb 3.0 port to be used as a USB client, USB charging (1000mA), alternate/2nd USB host (OTG modes)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Connector_USB_3_IMGP6033_wp_.jpg


2. Displayport (Full sized) for video out. Adap


3. USB 3.0 host port (Full sized type A)


4. Two full sized SDXC slots


5. Headphone/mic jack


Does that cover all of the user accessible ports that we need?

 

[2bit]

Well lets all wait tell Craig asks some questions for what people want .

 

[Grench]

Well lets all wait tell Craig asks some questions for what people want .

I think you may be misunderstanding the entire, "Pandora 2 spam" forum's purpose.


As I interpret it:


1. Someplace for all of this 'stuff' to go so that it doesn't clog up the main forums.


2. Idea generation. Includes dreams, ideas, spec proposals, etc. This means 'brainstorming'.


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/brainstorming


brain·storm·ing   [breyn-stawr-ming] Show IPA


noun


a conference technique of solving specific problems, amassing information, stimulating creative thinking, developing new ideas, etc., by unrestrained and spontaneous participation in discussion.


Unfortunately, the, "unrestrained," portion of brainstorming really really bothers some people - and they want to curtail, critique, insult or apply rules to the conversation.


I'm sure CraigIX will let us know if/when he wants additional ideas around any given facet of our conversations - but until then, let the ideas flow. He and the rest of the dev team will use, modify or ignore any bits of this as they see fit.

 

[craigix]

We do read the spam forum, but please don't take it all so seriously!

 

[Saber]

I know this wasn't mentioned but I wanted to add that I chose mini DisplayPort over HDMI for two reasons:


1. The adapter I suggested is super cheap at $2(besides you'd still need to carry around a dongle anyways if the P2 likely used a mini or micro HDMI to hook up to a full HDMI port).


2. Those annual HDMI fees can get expensive and are unnecessary really with a $2 mDisP to HDMI adapter.


The other thing on my mind was I added micro USB(OTG) wall charging because, looking at the Nexus 7 which charges its 4325 mAh battery by µUSB cable from the wall at around 4 hours, the Pandora 4200 mAh should top off at around the same time with the added bonus that most people already have this type of cable for charging their cellphone.


/ End Rant B)

I could see that - the only catch is that the displayport itself is a pretty big port. It is slightly larger than a full sized USB host port. It IS smaller than a VGA port or DVI port though.

Well, it's actually a mini DisplayPort which is smaller than a full size USB port:

We do read the spam forum, but please don't take it all so seriously!

Sorry, but it's difficult to curb how exciting a future P2 and the upcoming Product 3 is. They're just unbelievably awesome in potential.

 

[Grench]

It looks like the mini DisplayPort format's 'free license' may be similar to the ExFat 'free license' from Microsoft...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini_DisplayPort


Shortly after announcing the Mini DisplayPort, Apple announced that it would license the connector technology with no fee.[5] Apple reserves the right to void the license should the licensee "commence an action for patent infringement against Apple".[6]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exfat


Microsoft has not released the official exFAT file system specification, and a restrictive license from Microsoft is required in order to make and distribute exFAT implementations. Microsoft also asserts patents on exFAT which make it impossible to re-implement its functionality in a compatible way without violating a large percentage of them.[11] This renders the implementation, distribution, and use of exFAT as a part of free or open-source operating systems or of commercial software, for which the vendors could not obtain a license from Microsoft, not only technically difficult, but legally impossible in countries that recognize United States software patents.


Both appear to require some form of license deal - and are restrictive.


The extra space needed for a full sized displayport port might be better than selling Apple what effectively amounts to an unrestricted license to copy any or all OpenPandora's stuff just to get the mini displayport version.


I'm not sure what to do about the Exfat situation though. Yes, it needs some support because that is how all of the new UHS-I cards seem to be coming formatted as. Maybe someone could build the Google supplied X86 Exfat binaries/source into an ARM/Pandora PND release?


Sticky patent minefields to dance through.

 

[Exophase]

I say have a lawyer look over the terms of Apple's license, because that sentence alone doesn't mean that they get access to the device's copyrights or patents. I'm sure there are still legally binding terms governing the conditions under which they're able to revoke the license.


Full sized display port doesn't look that big though.

Sorry, but it's difficult to curb how exciting a future P2 and the upcoming Product 3 is. They're just unbelievably awesome in potential.

You're excited about the unbelievably awesome potential of a device you know absolutely nothing about, that could be pretty much anything? Craig really knows how to work his hype..

 

[Saber]

Full sized display port doesn't look that big though.

Mini DisplayPort guys not DisplayPort. Of course, micro HDMI would be my first choice if OP doesn't blink about the licensing and royalty fees. This looks like a good little cable for starters.

Sorry, but it's difficult to curb how exciting a future P2 and the upcoming Product 3 is. They're just unbelievably awesome in potential.

You're excited about the unbelievably awesome potential of a device you know absolutely nothing about, that could be pretty much anything? Craig really knows how to work his hype..

Exo, it's more of an assumption of what I believe it to be that has me excited. If i'm right and it is what I want and think it to be, then it's worth being overly enthused about before its big reveal.

 

[Exophase]

Mini DisplayPort guys not DisplayPort. Of course, micro HDMI would be my first choice if OP doesn't blink about the licensing and royalty fees. This looks like a good little cable for starters.

I was responding to Grench's post.. didn't you read it?

 

[Grench]

Mini DisplayPort guys not DisplayPort. Of course, micro HDMI would be my first choice if OP doesn't blink about the licensing and royalty fees. This looks like a good little cable for starters.

I was responding to Grench's post.. didn't you read it?

mini displayport appears to be an Apple patented port - with a rather wonky 'free' license (according to Wikipedia).

 

[2bit]

We do read the spam forum, but please don't take it all so seriously!

Basically what I meant

 

[Saber]

mini displayport appears to be an Apple patented port - with a rather wonky 'free' license (according to Wikipedia).

You might be right then that Openpandora should steer clear of using mDisP, Grench.


Read the whole pdf from the Wikipedia article and nothing popped out as worrisome.


My guess is OP will either choose a micro DisplayPort or pay the fees and go with a common µHDMI port. Both will work out fine.