My Loyalty Under Fire.

[J201605]

Just out of curiosity, what kind of shooter is stargazer?

 

[DaveC]

If you really can't stand that so much there is usually te option to display just part of the screen, like NES emulation, where you can just include the part where the real action is at. Or for systems with a LOWER resolution, just display it 'letterboxed'. I'm sure you find both practices appalling and unacceptable, however.

Um no. All of the emus on the GP2X are letterboxed or window boxed even if only slightly. I don't find that appalling and unacceptable as there is no pixel loss or distortion, that is what I use. I never use the "fullscreen" options on GP2X emus (unless they are an even 2:1 like Lynx) as they look like shit to me.

 

[Epicenter]

That's odd to hear when you've said before that wasting any screen real estate was an abominable act.

Just out of curiosity, what kind of shooter is stargazer?

A rather unique style; a blend of the more intense 'danmaku' style shooters and more 'traditional' early 90s games, but with modern graphics and music. We started with a vertical scrolling format but have changed our minds in favor of Horizontal for aspect ratio reasons. Too uncomfortable an orientation on a lot of devices really. Most people don't have access to a tall arcade monitor, and no portable device does.

 

[epitaph]

Edit: Just forget it.

 

[Aninhumer]

Could you put a 320*240 display across both DS screens? Obviously not quite practical but it's one way of getting no pixel loss.

DaveC, most of us agree that pixel loss, or uneven scaling looks bad.
We just don't think it looks that bad, especially with some clever filters.
Once I'm in the middle of Contra III, I think I'd be more worried about dodging enemies than fuzzy scaling.

 

[Epicenter]

The 2 displays are 252x192 each, so 384px tall together. But not wide enough to accomodate a 320 pixel wide frame. If you turned the unit sideways, you'd be in good shape, but the control would be terrible like that, and the division between the screens makes displaying one larger image look awkward anyway. Look at the video at the start of the Metroid demo that came with early DS units, it's strange and disjointed. The gap is not as big with the Lite but it's still there. I'll take a scaled image, thanks. It doesn't look nearly as bad as DaveC makes it sound, he is just perfectionistic..

Also a comment I just noted...

Hmm, even if the XGP has hardware rotation/scaling/whatever, I doubt that when using SDL it will be significantly faster than GP2X at 2D stuff. If faster at all. You'd have to program for the hardware to take advantage of it in all likelyhood.

The advantage is more that a true GPU can draw millions of pixels per second to the display in the form of sprites, while a blitter like the GP2X uses struggles with a fraction of that, leaving the CPU burdened. It's feasible to draw hundreds or thousands of sprites and larger, more complex and rich backgrounds without taking a framerate hit with a true GPU. If you compare a GP2X game to a DS game, despite the CPU that is 4x slower at its default speed (even slower if you count overclocking the GP2X) and approximately 1/12th the usable RAM, you'll still see a more graphically appealing and intense game-- once you reach a certain point, CPU power plateaus for actual game logic, and more CPU power does little compared to a snappy graphics subsystem. The only real exception here is that the use of a VFPU would accelerate code that is slow on a processor at any clockrate due to being designed for integer math only.

As for software support, it should be reasonably simple to build a custom SDL library to utilize the GPU like the blitter is utilized. I'm sure someone like Paeryn is more than up to the job. Or you can just alter your actual drawing functions, like your blitting function, to draw to an OpenGL context (SDL contains support for an OpenGL wrapper), thereby using the GPU's native API, going through the graphics driver and to the hardware. You wouldn't need to do such craziness as to try and access an undocumented blitter using addresses, everything would be integral, well documented and standardized in its use. For comparison, even GPH don't seem to have even figured out how the blitter works yet as evidenced by their software. With a 'proper' GPU, it'd be more like coding for a traditional computer platform, and less stumbling in the dark to manipulate graphics.

 

[J201605]

That's odd to hear when you've said before that wasting any screen real estate was an abominable act.

Just out of curiosity, what kind of shooter is stargazer?

A rather unique style; a blend of the more intense 'danmaku' style shooters and more 'traditional' early 90s games, but with modern graphics and music. We started with a vertical scrolling format but have changed our minds in favor of Horizontal for aspect ratio reasons. Too uncomfortable an orientation on a lot of devices really. Most people don't have access to a tall arcade monitor, and no portable device does.

Game sounds kool, dont understand why it would be hard to make but w/e im not a developer... i guess it must have some damn good graphics or a geometry warsesque amount of enemys. Too bad you aren't going to try a version for the gp, i guess ill have to be content with blazing star.

 

[EvilDragon]

That's odd to hear when you've said before that wasting any screen real estate was an abominable act.

? AFAIR DaveC always was AGAINST weird scaling and FOR original resolution (as I am myself, except for 2x, 3x or 4x, scaling on LCDs LOOKS ugly. It has to, as you can't have a pixel light in two different colors)


BTW: AFAIK GamePark abandoned the XGP for now and only want to release the XGP Kids... which is crap, as it's a GP32 with lower screen resolution (which doesn't make sense).

 

[DaveC]

That's odd to hear when you've said before that wasting any screen real estate was an abominable act.

I never said that. Some other guy did when he wanted Megadrive scaled to use the extra 2 mm of screen height

I made fun of him saying "dammit, I paid for all of those pixels, I want them all used" as a joke.

Scaling is ok to me if it is an even multiple like 2:1 like lynx, 2:1 horizontal like C-64 or Atari 800 etc. Fractional scaling is rubbish like 1.5:1 etc. I don't like the blurring that attempts to hide that either. The only exception for me would be GB/GBC/GG as the image is just TOO small at 1:1 for those.

As far as the DS goes the cutting out of pixels is not desirable because i have a device with a bigger screen and higher resolution that CAN display the proper resolution (GP2X). If the only handheld left in existance was a DS and there was no other choice then I would make do with cropped or scaled down graphics. Since there is a choice then I say BAH! why put up with less if I don't have to? I play alot of older MAME games such as MsPac-Man, Donkey Kong, MrDo! etc. Because of the abrupt color changes, very contrasty colors, and geometric shapes fractional scaling or pixel removal looks absolutly AWFUL for those games.

 

[Epicenter]

Fine, DaveC. It just gets tiresome hearing you shout about it everytime someone mentions a device with a screen resolution besides 320x240.

BTW: AFAIK GamePark abandoned the XGP for now and only want to release the XGP Kids... which is crap, as it's a GP32 with lower screen resolution (which doesn't make sense).

I've been speaking with Gamepark about it. While they asked me not to reveal most of what we are discussing, I can tell you they haven't abandoned the XGP series, they are just releasing the GPKiDS first, which they've stated they may have another company release under their name, I suppose like the original plan to have Atari make GP32 units. The XGP systems aren't ready yet, naturally, but they haven't been given up on in any regard. Like an e-mail I posted recently stated, they feel the orginally published specifications are too weak given the delay, so they are now working on the best hardware for the system to keep it competitive.

 

[Mudi]

now working on the best hardware for the system to keep it competitive.

And really, that is one of the things that is making me increasingly worried about the future of the XGP... I know from experience that once you start delaying to upgrade hardware because of delays, the thing ends up never coming out. Just look at DNF if you want a high-profile example.

At some point you have to say "this is what we will be using, no changes to the plan from now on", and thusfar I haven't seen anything like that from Gamepark.

 

[Epicenter]

Most of the delaying seems to have been to focus on the GPKiDS and thatg wasn't really commonly-known information. Everyone assumed all 3 systems would come out at once or very close together, instead they intend to release them one at a time.

 

[vampire8bit]

It does not exist. (and I doubt it ever will knowing the history behind it and the high costs involved) I am entertained by the comments about it though, especially the guestimates about how things would run on it. However, I don't 'despise' it.

And the commercial games for the GP2X are coming now, best to make sure the quality is good rather than rush release them, don't you think? Me, Ed and fatih have just been in Seoul to talk about this kind of thing all week, you will see some interesting changes in the way the GP2X is moving forward now.

-Craig

off topic: whose Fatih?

 

[Ravnos]

He's the Turkish distributor, IIRC.

 

[Epicenter]

Why do I get a feeling that repainted GP2Xs and a docking station, and a lot of lies about the hardware (275 MHz, lawl.) is going to remain the new direction...

 

[Xisiqomelir]

Epicenter: you seem to have yet to understand the most vital rule of discussion -- NEVER insult your opponent or any object of discussion related to him/her. Try approaching the matter with more professionalism and less arrogance. When you go about proving your point like you do, people will feel threatened rather than inclined to listen, which'll result in them instinctively disregarding you.

I used to think you were one of the great posters on this board - I loved reading your technical introspectives - but as of late I've come to regard you as biased and much less interesting.

I'd just like to comment on this point. You do know that this is fallacious (specifically: style-over-substance) reasoning, right? Tone has no bearing on fact (e.g. "You worthless whoreson bastard, the Earth revolves around the Sun!").

You are correct in saying that it's not exactly persuasive, but I think Epicenter is making points in this thread, not trying to persuade anyone of anything.

 

[Epicenter]

Well put. With a lot of people on this forum, it's like arguing with the wall. No matter how many points you make, they will maintain the exact same position eternally and repeatedly. A classic example would be Craig's constant insistance that GPH has no idea what they're doing, but that Gamepark is incapable of producing any sort of system ever, or DaveC's incessant rantings about how emulation at anything but exactly a system's native resolution is inherently worthless, etc. When arguing with someone whose opinion is shaped by NO external influence it becomes quite difficult to maintain a scholarly tone.

 

[J201605]

no its not

 

[awakenjsy]

That's odd to hear when you've said before that wasting any screen real estate was an abominable act.

BTW: AFAIK GamePark abandoned the XGP for now and only want to release the XGP Kids... which is crap, as it's a GP32 with lower screen resolution (which doesn't make sense).

Where did you get this information? from Gamepark?

 

[Epicenter]

BTW: AFAIK GamePark abandoned the XGP for now and only want to release the XGP Kids... which is crap, as it's a GP32 with lower screen resolution (which doesn't make sense).

Where did you get this information? from Gamepark?

Wherever it came from, it isn't true... possibly a misinterpretation. GamePark's never said anything of the sort to me nor in any of the e-mails posted here.