Mupen64 Will It Have....

[Exophase]

Is there a way to make Ocarina of Time render at 30, 40 or even 60fps with an emulator?

Not without hacking the game, but the emulator would probably not be fast enough anyway.

Because for example Lotus III was a bit choppy on a standard Amiga 500 (~20 fps or so - depending on the scenario), but with JIT enabled it runs super-smooth at 50fps under WinUAE.

That means two things:

a) WinUAE was running far, far more cycles per frame than the real hardware would - getting timing even close is hard and often not worth it but this sounds way off for something that probably had pretty static timing that could be determined at compile time.. Mupen64plus's maximum instructions per frame count, on the other hand, is quite conservative.
B) The game was made to render as fast as it possibly could, meaning if you had any extra cycles it would use them to render frames (probably can't get > 50fps though because it's vsync'd)

Most N64 games, including OoT, don't fall under category b: they will refuse to go faster than some number of FPS that's some divisor of vsync, like 20 or 30. If they have time left over they stop and wait. There are exceptions like Golden Eye and Perfect Dark. On Projec64, for instance, you can set the instructions per frame number higher (or rather, cycles per instruction number lower, but same correlation) in order to make Perfect Dark run more smoothly, if you have enough CPU to still emulate it in real time. Since Mupen64plus isn't really comfortably fullspeed on Pandora yet asking for something that'll make the emulation more demanding is really not a good way to go.

 

[john4p]

Okay, thanks for the elaborate explanation!

My question was more related to emulators for PC. Playing OoT on the Pandora at its full original 20fps would (will) be awesome!

I was just wondering if one could play it on a PC "thrice as smooth" as on the original hardware. Having this - together with that fanmade high resolution texture-pack - would be great.

 

[Yoyobuae]

Okay, thanks for the elaborate explanation!

My question was more related to emulators for PC. Playing OoT on the Pandora at its full original 20fps would (will) be awesome!

I was just wondering if one could play it on a PC "thrice as smooth" as on the original hardware. Having this - together with that fanmade high resolution texture-pack - would be great.

From what I understand from Exophase post, the programmers that made the game originally did not code the game so that it could run at other frame rates.

Keep in mind that emulators emulate the hardware platform. The program that the original game developers wrote is still running inside. There's also no source code available for it, therefore making modifications is extremely dificult (assembly level hacking) and may introduce bugs, crashes, etc.

Besides, emulator writers don't want to hack every game one by one, that's why they emulate the hardware, so that the same program runs the same on the emulator as int the real hardware (or close enough).

In conclusion, go complain to the original game developers for not having auto adjusted framerates.

 

[Exophase]

Okay, thanks for the elaborate explanation!

My question was more related to emulators for PC. Playing OoT on the Pandora at its full original 20fps would (will) be awesome!

I was just wondering if one could play it on a PC "thrice as smooth" as on the original hardware. Having this - together with that fanmade high resolution texture-pack - would be great.

One of the things to bear in mind is that the 20Hz could be used for more than just a frame rate, it might also be used as an internal timer, ie making events happen in X frames. My guess is they tried to abstract away from this in some sense to make porting to PAL easier - that's assuming the PAL version isn't outright slower like some bad ports are. On the other hand, if timing is counted with vblank interrupts or a timer then just changing the part of the code that regulates when frames are updated and overclocking the N64 sufficiently could do the trick. So it could range from a pretty simple game hack to a rather elaborate one.

 

[john4p]

Thanks, Yoyobuae and Exophase. Well, I hope a "simple" hack to the rom can do (but if it's just some constant how do you find it in the rom or in the emulated memory?).

 

[GizmoTheGreen]

Just forget about it, you won't notice any differance as you do with fps in computer games.

The games will play just as they are intended on the real console (if the emulator runs well enough)

 

[PokeParadox]

Okay, thanks for the elaborate explanation!

My question was more related to emulators for PC. Playing OoT on the Pandora at its full original 20fps would (will) be awesome!

I was just wondering if one could play it on a PC "thrice as smooth" as on the original hardware. Having this - together with that fanmade high resolution texture-pack - would be great.

One of the things to bear in mind is that the 20Hz could be used for more than just a frame rate, it might also be used as an internal timer, ie making events happen in X frames. My guess is they tried to abstract away from this in some sense to make porting to PAL easier - that's assuming the PAL version isn't outright slower like some bad ports are. On the other hand, if timing is counted with vblank interrupts or a timer then just changing the part of the code that regulates when frames are updated and overclocking the N64 sufficiently could do the trick. So it could range from a pretty simple game hack to a rather elaborate one.

Some of the earlier games had the traditional slowdown and black bars added... Wave Race 64 being a notable example. Later PAL conversions got better.

 

[Wheels]

So it looks like this could be the general purpose Mupen64 questions thread, so we can all leave the one in Beta Testing to the team that's working with it?

I was curious about OoT/MM myself, those were my favorites for the N64. Would it be feasible for me to extract the ROMS from my Gamecube Collector's Edition disk? (I'd much rather rip my own than get them through less legitimate means, it'd make me feel better.)

 

[Prometheus]

Later PAL conversions got better.

To be specific here (for the benefit of non-PAL folks ), after Star Fox 64 Lylat Wars, all first party titles, and a number of third-party ones (Rayman 2: The Great Escape is one), ran full-screen, with better optimisation than had previously been seen on the system. (I had actually forgotten all about the post-Star Fox 64 titles until I obtained an N64 with a couple of games at a car boot sale recently - for a bargainous £8. )

Would it be feasible for me to extract the ROMS from my Gamecube Collector's Edition disk? (I'd much rather rip my own than get them through less legitimate means, it'd make me feel better.)

It is my understanding that this is possible and has been done. However, I don't know anything about the specific method used.

 

[Tokiopop]

Would it be feasible for me to extract the ROMS from my Gamecube Collector's Edition disk? (I'd much rather rip my own than get them through less legitimate means, it'd make me feel better.)

No, I don't think so. I could be wrong, but I think those will just run on the Gamecube, since I don't think they're the original N64 ROMs.

 

[Wheels]

It is my understanding that this is possible and has been done. However, I don't know anything about the specific method used.

Good to know. I won't clog up the thread with requests for tutorials or anything, it's time for some Google-fu.
Edit: @Tokiopop
Really? I'd heard they were basically just the ROMs with some separate software to emulate the older systems on the GC hardware.

 

[renwils]

Would it be feasible for me to extract the ROMS from my Gamecube Collector's Edition disk? (I'd much rather rip my own than get them through less legitimate means, it'd make me feel better.)

No, I don't think so. I could be wrong, but I think those will just run on the Gamecube, since I don't think they're the original N64 ROMs.

I think they're probably packaged much like Wii virtual console wad files. You can extract the original n64 rom from those with a hex editor.

 

[Tokiopop]

It's been ages since I played OoT on the GameCube, but I recall the buttons being different for the GameCube? I'm probably just confused here and probably wrong.

Edit: Just got OoT out to check, you're right - it's exactly like it's being emulated

 

[Shock-Socks]

Would it be feasible for me to extract the ROMS from my Gamecube Collector's Edition disk? (I'd much rather rip my own than get them through less legitimate means, it'd make me feel better.)

No, I don't think so. I could be wrong, but I think those will just run on the Gamecube, since I don't think they're the original N64 ROMs.

I think they're probably packaged much like Wii virtual console wad files. You can extract the original n64 rom from those with a hex editor.

yeah you can, the original n64 Rom is on the disc, and you can extract it. basically, nintendo wrote an n64 emulator for the gamecube and packaged it within that disc.

 

[PokeParadox]

Would it be feasible for me to extract the ROMS from my Gamecube Collector's Edition disk? (I'd much rather rip my own than get them through less legitimate means, it'd make me feel better.)

No, I don't think so. I could be wrong, but I think those will just run on the Gamecube, since I don't think they're the original N64 ROMs.

I think they're probably packaged much like Wii virtual console wad files. You can extract the original n64 rom from those with a hex editor.

yeah you can, the original n64 Rom is on the disc, and you can extract it. basically, nintendo wrote an n64 emulator for the gamecube and packaged it within that disc.

Yeah you need to first rip the disc to a GCM... then use GCTool or something similar to extract the file... it's a lot of messing about but it is possible...

 

[bananajamslam]

Does anyone know if "Conker's Bad Fur Day" will run at a respectable speed. It seems to run horribly on my PC so I wondered what it is like on this.

Thanks in advance.

 

[renwils]

Does anyone know if "Conker's Bad Fur Day" will run at a respectable speed. It seems to run horribly on my PC so I wondered what it is like on this.

Thanks in advance.

It is likely that no Rare games will ever run at an acceptable level on the Pandora. But some people have different expectations. I won't play something if the sound doesn't work right, but some people are happy to play at half speed without sound at all.

 

[kingoddball]

Sound on N64 games was not very good anyhow. I kill the sound on all my Emulation (except PSX) anyhow.
I'm sure alot of people do and they opt for MP3's.

The only game I am really wanting to play is RARE games (GoldenEye and Perfect Dark). That sucks.
Thats also a big selling point for why I bought the Pandora! Haha..

 

[Tokiopop]

Oh come on, surely you love the LOZ music. And without sound, you can't hear Peppy tell you to do barrel roles! Sound is very important

 

[gruso]

I can't play games without sound. Except in the toilet at work.