More Pandora 2 crap (MicroSD Split)

[_wb_]

Edit: Actually I'd give up a card slot of either type if it means I get more tech on the unit.

OK, well, that explains a lot. Obviously if you don't even care about having actual storage media in the Pandora 2, then yes of course, the smaller, the better. You would argue for nanoSD if it existed.


I don't know why and how you intend to use the P2 without any card slots (boot from USB or from network I suppose? store everything in the cloud?), but I'm pretty sure that your use case is exceedingly exceptional in this community. We certainly should not let relatively important design decisions about the removable storage medium in the P2 be influenced by your opinion on the matter. Just like you shouldn't ask a motorcycle fanatic "what number of wheels is best?" when you're designing a car.

 

[ShleeDragon]

I've actually forgotten what everybody is arguing about.


What?! How can this argument still be going on.. Isn't the plan just to have two microSD slots and not two fullsize SD slots?


also.. instead of all this flapping about. how about somebody find me some proof of their views... because this seems to me like people on both sides are just being stubborn.

 

[grydholt]

I've actually forgotten what everybody is arguing about.


What?! How can this argument still be going on.. Isn't the plan just to have two microSD slots and not two fullsize SD slots?


also.. instead of all this flapping about. how about somebody find me some proof of their views... because this seems to me like people on both sides are just being stubborn.

Cannot really make out if you are being sarcastic, but surely a lot of good arguments have been going back and forth. At the start, I was of the mind that microSD would be more than enough, but now I can see that the combination of full SD and micro SD would be advantageous if we can find the space. EvilDragon is only okay with two microSD slots if the space is not there at all. Craigix was quick to say that it had to be two micro SD's but EvilDragon kind of retracted that and called for further investigation.


The above is of course my interpretation of the thread and I might find myself lost here on page 16...

 

[overgauss]

So now you're criticizing me for not quoting you? And you're saying not quoting means I didn't read what you wrote? I didn't quote you because the context doesn't require it. This is common forum style. Look around.


But what this really amounts to is that you can't take criticism so you go on a defensive bitch fest trying to attack me with anything you can muster. It's pathetic. You think I'm the only one who is tired of the way you post? I tried to give you some useful advice, but if you want to be like this then I don't really care if you end up getting banned.


You want me to tell you what was literally nothing? I LINKED TO THE POST. You are fucking hopeless.


Oh by the way, your huge font emphasis is extremely obnoxious too.

This is all unfounded. First there was no requirement to quote anything I said implied or otherwise. I merely illuminated you didn't understand (and still don't) what I said although my post was a mere three lines long. Second your advice is not pertinent because of this misunderstanding. Third I'm asking you to point out (specifically) where you thought what I said added "literally" nothing [meaning pick out lines of my text that support your claim]. It was all quite simple and I'm not sure where your anger stems from.


@thatgui


So the P2 is getting smaller but nothing else is [edit: Dat microSD Foarm Factah <- we can do better!]? BTW Amazon is in talks to buy the SoC devision of TI. I wonder what that means in the future. Also I qualified my statement by saying smaller where it matters. If you want to hear new music the next morning just clone the data to the SD card the night before. This might help you understand what device synchronization actually means because it's a little different than your understanding of it.


Bismuth I'm saying that for whatever reason that you posted that snippet it would have been better served to post it earlier in the thread when it would have been more useful instead of after someone already posted that in this thread. In a fair world Exo would have taken you to task because it was redundant or added little to the discussion etc.


Again my suggestion for those that are annoyed by my posting style is to just ignore me entirely. That way you're not compelled to argue against something I never said or continually quote me only to be incensed that I have the gall to defend myself or choose to embiggen hypertext links to distinguish between text that is merely underlined.


E: Clarificationing

 

[overgauss]

Edit: Actually I'd give up a card slot of either type if it means I get more tech on the unit.

OK, well, that explains a lot. Obviously if you don't even care about having actual storage media in the Pandora 2, then yes of course, the smaller, the better. You would argue for nanoSD if it existed.


I don't know why and how you intend to use the P2 without any card slots (boot from USB or from network I suppose? store everything in the cloud?), but I'm pretty sure that your use case is exceedingly exceptional in this community. We certainly should not let relatively important design decisions about the removable storage medium in the P2 be influenced by your opinion on the matter. Just like you shouldn't ask a motorcycle fanatic "what number of wheels is best?" when you're designing a car.

Another misunderstanding. Giving up a card slot means that one still remains for storage. This means your post is not based on what I said and instead based on something else entirely. I mentioned the cloud as a tongue in cheek reference to the year 2020 and the types of "out there" arguments we might have then.


Grydholt said:

but now I can see that the combination of full SD and micro SD would be advantageous if we can find the space.

This is actually one of the several basis' for my position. I'm saying that if SD is so large that it removes technological options/functionability I'd rather not have it. If a card controller of either type could instead be used for more of this functionality I'm fine with one slot for storage and one for a nand replacement (hopefully leading to an additional peripheral slot).


@Paridiso

because this seems to me like people on both sides are just being stubborn.

I admit to a fair amount of stubborness. If I'm unfairly attacked I stubbornly defend my position. I also am happy to and will willingly admit when I'm wrong and expect others to do so similarly. The best way to do that is address specifically the point in question instead of generalizing. BTW in my defence I've previously asked people to either PM me or put me on ignore.

 

[_wb_]

Edit: Actually I'd give up a card slot of either type if it means I get more tech on the unit.

OK, well, that explains a lot. Obviously if you don't even care about having actual storage media in the Pandora 2, then yes of course, the smaller, the better. You would argue for nanoSD if it existed.


I don't know why and how you intend to use the P2 without any card slots (boot from USB or from network I suppose? store everything in the cloud?), but I'm pretty sure that your use case is exceedingly exceptional in this community. We certainly should not let relatively important design decisions about the removable storage medium in the P2 be influenced by your opinion on the matter. Just like you shouldn't ask a motorcycle fanatic "what number of wheels is best?" when you're designing a car.

Another misunderstanding. Giving up a card slot means that one still remains for storage. This means your post is not based on what I said and instead based on something else entirely. I mentioned the cloud as a tongue in cheek reference to the year 2020 and the types of "out there" arguments we might have then.

Sorry, I misinterpreted what you said as "zero slots is enough" while you meant "one slot is enough". I still disagree (I think 2 is a minimum and 3 would be even better, even if that means that the P2 cannot be smaller than the P1). What kind of "tech" are you talking about by the way? If it's that important to you, then maybe we should make the P2 another centimeter or so wider or deeper and add it. I could very well live with a P2 that is 1 cm less thick, 2 cm wider and 1 cm deeper than the P1. Its overall size would still be smaller, but there would be quite a bit more board space for all that extra "tech".

 

[overgauss]

WB I'm saying Grench for example, is able to get away with using just one 128gb card as it is more than enough storage. I can agree to that. If a card controller can be repurposed as a controller for microHDMI, an accelerometer etc I'd rather have that. If that is even possible and size allows. In short slot amount imo is secondary to bells and whistles that could replace that slot since I'm operating under the assumption that a limited amount of controllers exist on the typical SoC necessary to control such additional bells and whistles. I prefer the 2 slot solution and as you know would rather have 4. However I would rather have more capabilities resident on the unit since most of you have adequately argued that memory capacity is large enough with either SDXC or even microSDXC. Especially since the largest flash maker in the world is using an improved TLC flash technology (Samsung) that removes the reliability issues of older TLC technology with improvements in capacity and speed.


Although changing the size of the unit gives physical space for extra bells and whistles we still have limited controllers. Now we are back to the onboard daughterboard/controller setup. This might not be that big a deal with custom SMT controllers etc.


E:typo


Also

while you meant "one slot is enough"

Is not fully correct. I'm saying if losing a slot means I get something else in return, I can handle just one slot plus onboard memory. If losing the slot gains no additional functionality I would prefer 2 or more slots. I would only prefer more than 2 slots if again functionality is not lost. I'm under the impression that this is why we don't have bluetooth for example. Correct me if I'm wrong. Edit: I'm wrong. I'm not sure why I thought it didn't have bluetooth :/

 

[Grench]

WB I'm saying Grench for example, is able to get away with using just one 128gb card as it is more than enough storage.

Intentionally misinterpreting someone else's remarks doesn't score you any points.


I have one 128GB card as my main with everything on it that I need to keep on the device continuously. Meanwhile I have more cards ranging from 16GB to 128GB that I shuffle in and out of the other slot as needed. Yes, that means at any point in time my Pandora has 144 to 256GB of storage plugged into it - and I could make use of more.

 

[overgauss]

Grench you have a unique way of deciding someone's intent by jumping the gun with false assumptions.

Right now I have ONE 128GB card in my Pandora housing everything I keep 'on device'. Music, programs, etc. It has room to spare - so I can onload/offload data from whatever SD card I put in the 2nd slot.


I never have to carry around a pile of fragile tiny cards that I can't pick up. I never have to swap cards unless it's to add/remove data from the main machine. I never need an adapter or USB key to do it.

If "Right now I (you) have ONE 128GB card in my Pandora housing everything I keep 'on device'" because "It has room to spare" so that you can "can onload/offload data from whatever SD card I put in the 2nd slot." A function you can still do although it requires an additional step because you "never have to swap cards unless it's to add/remove data from the main machine." Surely you can understand where such innocent misunderstandings arise. No matter your protestations to the contrary I've never intentionally misinterpreted or exaggerated anything.


Your caps of ONE implied you use one card with everything you need on the device. The fact that you "put" another card in the second slot implies you're able to get away with one card as it has "room to spare". You never indicated a range of cards that you swap in and out of the other slot as needed in your original post. Rather you stated that at the current moment you have ONE 128GB card in your pandora housing everything you need on the device.


If your total storage was actually 144GB to 256GB you might have mentioned that instead of saying ONE 128GB card as it leads to "intentional misinterpretation" as you can see.


For instance you said

The above examples claiming that four 64GB microSD cards for $550 is better because a single 256GB SD card is $900 is misleading at best.

You could have illustrated your point by saying you only range from 144GB to 256GB. But then that would have destroyed the other argument you unsuccesfully tried to make earlier.

Edit:

Yes, that means at any point in time my Pandora has 144 to 256GB of storage plugged into it - and I could make use of more.

This could probably be served with the addition of more storage slots...(or storage module by itself but probably with other bells and whistles for added utility)

 

[thatgui]

BTW Amazon is in talks to buy the SoC devision of TI. I wonder what that means in the future.

I've heard that a bag of rice bursted in China - equal level of importance

Also I qualified my statement by saying smaller where it matters.

True, did not read carefull enough. But that does not invalidate my argumentation afterwards - not everything the "industry" is currently offering in their products is to the customers advantage (shiny, easy to scratch surface, makeup mirror displays, having no storage slots at all, cell phones with displays so big that they are likely to break in your trousers, having no real controls for games (leading to the icp and similar products), devices that get so sleek that they need extra carefull handling, etc.)

If you want to hear new music the next morning just clone the data to the SD card the night before.

But as already said, this bares the need to take my "carradio-sd" with me additionally, otherwise I won't be able to do it, letting aside the fact that I need an additional card.

This might help you understand what device synchronization actually means because it's a little different than your understanding of it.

Could you please do us both a favour and actually read what your are linking to ?


Device synchronization is more than just a dumb file copy action (bringing in unpleasent pits in cases like having differences in available space, differing archiving information due to the use of different "operating systems", ect.). This gets even more unpleasent if the devices store additonal information in other places than in the filesystem of "external" media.

 

[overgauss]

Sorry but your argumentation was actually invalidated because I said that most every consumer product will be trimming the fat where feasible. These are two more qualifications that you missed. I know you missed it because you said

First, not everything gets smaller - cars aren't getting smaller , TVs aren't getting smaller (in fact they are getting b igger at least in two dimensions as produng LCD TVs in bigger sizes is a lot cheaper than producing big tube-TVs), Laptops are also not getting smaller - there are the ultrabooks now, but my first laptop was even thinner than an ultrabook is now (ok maybe not thinner than any ultraboook). Cellphones are also not getting smaller now, I had a cellphone 7 or 8 years ago that was third the size. At that time people began to come up with jokes that in the near future people have to worry about not swallong their phones. So maybe getting everything smaller isn't always the best solution ? And who the f.. says that it is in everyones favour that things get smaller ? People are complaining that the Pandora has no 4 cpu cores, while their phone has them, but people don't tend do ask why their phone needs 4 cpu cores (with no software available that will use it). Maybe the mass isn't always right ?


Maybe I'm a member of dying species but I would not wan't the P2 be a lot smaller. Not that I would not like it if my P2 would fit easily in my pocket - but the P1 fits barely in my Hands (having average sized hands), and playing is ok for a extend period of time. But making it smaller, will make it painfull to play. As it seems you like comparing things to "the big companies" - look at size of game controllers of the current console generation - are they very small - so even children can hold them easily ? No, because Nintendo, MS, etc. decided that their controllers need a certain size.

Whereas I said

Cars (e.g., the Smart Car), laptops, computers, ebook readers, tablets, phones, slim versions of gaming consoles, HDTV's, computer monitors, and more all acknowledge that form factor is a consideration. As a result they are getting smaller where it matters and is most feasible to do so.

Note no mention of me saying everything is getting smaller.


I made no claim that

everything the "industry" is currently offering in their products is to the customers advantage

I didn't even imply that.

As for the SD thing, I'm clearly not understanding what you're saying. It seems to me that copying the data onto your SD card then leaving it in the car until it needs updating is perfectly reasonable.


Device synchronization is pretty much a "dumb file copy action". What do you think is being synchronized other than data? What is a file but a type of data? You don't need computerized synchronization software. YOU are the software. Cloning data is essentially synchronizing it amongst different devices. From the link(s) you read.

Using Portable Devices to Sync Files


Another option to keep your latest files with you at all times is to use an external device such as a portable hard drive or a USB flash drive (some people even use their iPods). You can either work with files directly off of the portable device or use software to sync between the computer and the external drive.


Sometimes copying files to and from an external drive may be your only option if you want to sync your home PC with an office computer and your company's IT department doesn't allow installation of non-approved software (they also might not allow external devices to be plugged, though, so it's best to check with them for your options).

Data synchronization technologies are designed to synchronize a single set of data between two or more devices, automatically copying changes back and forth. For example, a user's contact list on one mobile device can be synchronized with other mobile devices or computers. Data synchronization can be local synchronization where the device and computer are side-by-side and data is transferred or remote synchronization when a user is mobile and the data is synchronized over a mobile network. [source: Adapted from Nokia]

I'm not sure why you have a problem with me saying this

It's basically device synchronization and not even novel. I would just copy my mp3's from my laptop to my Pandy and SD card at the same time. The music would be in both locations at the same time.

It doesn't matter if you manually synch the data or if a program does it for you, it's still synchronizing data when all is said and done.

 

[sswam]

Without a doubt, having two full-size external SD card drives is best. DREDD has spoken. Argue at your peril!! :angry:

• external means swappable, a big advantage
  
• don't put the drives under the battery
  
• keep core system on one SD: PNDs, my code and documents, best emu games, best music, the essentials
  
• keep optional stuff on one or more secondary cards - music, movies, TV-series, more PNDs, more emu games, dev documentation, e-books, audio-books, comics, maps, wikipedia rip, pr0n, other systems (android, debian, ...) ...
  
• can easily copy from one SD to another
  
• can easily share stuff with other Pandora owners
  
• full size SD cards are harder to lose, also give more bits / dollar
  
• can use an adaptor to put mini or micro-sd into an SD slot, but not the converse
  
• Pandora 2 should be compatible with Pandora 1 media
  
• happy retro feeling of the old "double floppy drives"
  
• three external card slots would be overkill
  
• one internal microSD together with two external SD would be okay, but not necessary
  

If we use sucky internal / microSD / single SD drives, it's bearable; but it will make the Pandora 2 inferior to Pandora 1 in that regard. That would be a shame. If we aiming for the best possible device, we should go for dual full-size external SD drives again.


By the way, I recommend to buy the fastest SD cards, from a reputable Pandora seller such as EvilDragon! If you have slow SD cards your Pandora experience will be sludgy.

 

[thatgui]

Sorry but your argumentation was actually invalidated because I said that most every consumer product will be trimming the fat where feasible. These are two more qualifications that you missed. I know you missed it because you said

Thats true, but the point you make here is, that the industry seems to be in the right position zu decide whats feasable and whats not. My whole point is that what appears to be feasable for the industry isn't automatically to the consumers advantage.

I made no claim that

true, but I never said that

everything the "industry" is currently offering in their products is to the customers advantage

I didn't even imply that.

you did, see above

As for the SD thing, I'm clearly not understanding what you're saying. It seems to me that copying the data onto your SD card then leaving it in the car until it needs updating is perfectly reasonable.

As I'm (obviously) no native tongue, I sometimes have a hard time expressing my thoughts, but maybe the third try fixes it:


It's not reasonable, because It would imply that right before I leave my car I have to decide wether I wan't to buy new music or not. If I make a spontaneous decision to buy some music if I'm already at home, I have to go back and get the card out of the car. If I want to be spontaneous, I would have to take card with me everytime I leave the car.


But I do not know why your sticking with this particular example anyway

Using Portable Devices to Sync Files


....


I'm not sure why you have a problem with me saying this

It's basically device synchronization and not even novel. I would just copy my mp3's from my laptop to my Pandy and SD card at the same time. The music would be in both locations at the same time.

It doesn't matter if you manually synch the data or if a program does it for you, it's still synchronizing data when all is said and done.

Can't recall that I ever said it has to be an automatic process. But anyway I have a problem with your wrong usage of the term "synchronization". Again it's not just about about copying files from source to destination (something your quotes also imply). It's about comparing the content of the source and the content of the destination on a (in a bad situation) file by file basis.


Why go for all the hassle to sync or copy (and even the need to buy an extra card), if it could be just a matter of popping a card out of a device and insert it into another, with just the very low price of having the device be a little bigger.


There are a lot of things people complain about the Pandora is really lacking, but I rarely hear "the Pandora is way too big"

 

[Binky]

There are a lot of things people complain about the Pandora is really lacking, but I rarely hear "the Pandora is way too big"

Plenty of 'too thick', but not too big.


Agree with Dredd - 'the best console ever' must not be inferior to its predecessor.


There is no way in which fullSD is inferior to microSD, PCB footprint, which should not be a problem


We don't have to put up with not having enough space. We can make some! The P2 case design has not been finalised.

 

[overgauss]

Thatgui thanks for the clarification.


This

And who the f.. says that it is in everyones favour that things get smaller ?

Made me think you were implying that because the industry is trimming the fat where possible you meant that I was deciding that the industry knows best.


Apologize for the misunderstanding.


In fact!

My whole point is that what appears to be feasable for the industry isn't automatically to the consumers advantage.

I totally agree with this! However I see no evidence that this was your original argument. I again apologize if I misinterpreted what you said in that regard. I thought your claim was that things weren't getting smaller, whereas my claim was that things are most certainly becoming more efficient in size where appropriate. TV's, phones, game consoles etc are getting thinner. As are laptops, for instance they weigh much less due to efficient design that uses smaller/thinner components. My position was never that the industry decides what's feasible for the customer. Rahter the industry decides what's feasible for the product they are designing with whatever design goals they have in mind. So again I did not imply that the industry gets to decide what's feasible for customers. Customers decide what is feasible by voting with their wallets. Meaning they buy what they like and the industry responds by trying to provide more of what they like. The industry makes a guess and makes an offering based on that guess. If people buy the product that means the guess is on the right track.


As far as SD, I'm sticking with it because you brought it up and so I respond to it. For instance there is data missing. I think what you are saying is that you have a card at home that you would have new music on, then when you get to the car you would merely swap it out. I'm not sure how the pandora fits into this. For instance if you have the pandora at home with the music you want on it, use usb host to transfer data to whatever swap SD card you use. If you don't have a swap SD card this means you have to take the card out of your pandora each time to place it in the car, then take it out of the car and put it back in the pandora. If that works for you go for it. My preference is not to swap cards in and out of my radio everytime I exit the vehicle.

Can't recall that I ever said it has to be an automatic process. But anyway I have a problem with your wrong usage of the term "synchronization". Again it's not just about about copying files from source to destination (something your quotes also imply). It's about comparing the content of the source and the content of the destination on a (in a bad situation) file by file basis.

You asked if I bothered to read the links so I guessed (perhaps incorrectly) that you thought device synchronization meant more than placing the same data on more than one device and that a program was necessary to do this because it's much more than dumb file copying. In this case synchronization merely means making sure that the source drive mp3's also exist on the drive you want in your car.


The basic difference between our viewpoints appears to be that it is a strength for you to be required to swap a single card between two devices everytime you interact with either of them. My viewpoint is that it is a weakness to only use one card between two devices that you interact with on a daily basis. Even if I had two SD slots on the pandora I would still leave a dedicated SD card in my radio and clone the data over to it as needed. Also it wasn't obvious to me that English isn't your native tongue. For instance English IS my native tongue yet I remain a poor communicator. I think you do fine!


Dredd I think you meant that the P2 should be compatible with P1 storage media, because SD and microSD are electronically similar. Meaning the same media works on either type. In a vacuum I agree that 2 SD cards are best. However SD presents certain form factor considerations. It's true that copying SD cards from one to another is easy, but the same for microSD can be said. I think you mean copying from one to another with the purpose of interacting with a different device. Yes it wins in that regard, however USB host adds an extra hiccup but a bearable one if it is shown that the removal of SD provides larger benefits than keeping it.


I'm not sure it's been shown that SD gives more bits per dollar just yet. So it looks like the real argument in favor of SD is convenience. I can agree to that. But who is it convenient for (a core group of power users perhaps?) What cost are associated with that convenience (more materials, larger size, is there an increase in production cost or does including SD otherwise invalidate current design resources?) The microSD is more inconvenient (for me not much as I'd just use a usb cable and consider the pandy as an external usb hard drive).


However there must be some benefit in using these small ass cards because most everyone is doing it. The new 7' Archos gamepad uses it as well as most newer hand held consumer technologies. Why does the OP team seem to be in favor for it? If we can figure out why it's prefered the argument against its use could be more successfully presented.


The convenience argument with all things considered does not seem to fly. The capacity and speed arguments are moot because microSD provides enough space as well as speed. The cost of SD vs microSD has not been proven in favor of SD (this might be a start). It could be shown with cited evidence that microSDs break more often than SDs(this is a good argument). I expect their answer would be that they aren't meant to be swapped and will be located in insides of the housing anyway. Or any number of things(usb host, usb to SD card adapter, microSD adapters etc, cloud upload/download, I don't know).


Also the P2 in some regards will be competing against devices such as this with a sexy streamlined look. MY guess is that around 2013-14 timeframe a device perceived as too thick, clunky etc is not going to be well recieved by much other than the small nich of people that the community seems to want to design it for. If nothing is lost in terms of form factor/design/functionality I'm all for SD. If the design for the P2 is only attractive to those that were going to buy one anyway, it would have cut out a massive revenue source. Does it need to be mainstream? No. But it needs to be attractive to more than just those that frequent these boards. I would first ask those that have already reviewed a pandora and ask them what they expect out of the P2 as they deal with a wide variety of consumer technology all the time.

 

[Linux-SWAT]

Why debating when the best choice is Mini-SD ?

 

[F_Slim]

MY guess is that around 2013-14 timeframe a device perceived as too thick, clunky etc is not going to be well recieved by much other than the small nich of people that the community seems to want to design it for.

So? That's the whole point of the Pandora project: to fill exactly the niche that it does.


Sure you can try to attract more people by making it look fancy (and you should). But if this means to cut features the community thinks are important, then you might lose as many customers from the group of people you are actually designing the product for, than you might win with a nicer design.

 

[Binky]

The advantage of microSD is being tiny and thin


Laptops are dropping functionality in the name of thinness


Whats the point of thinness (beyond a certain point? - dunno, but Apple does it, so it must be cool...


Have you considered that cloning all your data means buying twice as much memory as you need!?

 

[Scntrblob]

A pandora with a noticeably thinner lower part is going to be unergonomic for my hands to hold and therefore a step backwards.

 

[overgauss]

Mini-SD might be a go but I don't know how expensive they are in comparison. Something to look into for sure imo. Scntrblob is the Archos 7 too thin for your taste then? I agree there is a limit to how thin the device should be. I don't want something so thin that it is unwiedly. If someone wanted to get serious about it they could fab a few mockups (just a flat piece of wood) to determine what they thought was a good compromise.


Binky would you mind providing evidence of laptops that are dropping functionality for the sake of being thin? I imagine they exist but without examples I can't judge what you mean. I wouldn't have need to clone much data if at all except for AV media. That being said I do have a few terrabyte drives that house several hundreds of gigs of music. Some of which is on my PS3 and my cellphone. When I'm ready for new music I just copy it over to my phone. Am I the only one that does this?


F_slim what features are you talking about? Are you saying you wouldn't buy a P2 if it didn't come with dual SD slots? What if there is only 1 SD slot, would you still buy it? About the niche thing. I'm saying try to fulfill the needs of the niche while at the same time making the product accessible to a much larger demographic. Especially when the overall success of the product demands it. For example if you lose 2 thousand hardcore niche customers but gain 5 thousand general customers who then go on to attract other nich customers as well as non-niche customers is it worth it?


As far as I'm concerned done properly there is a way to retain the niche customers and expand the market to attract gamers, IT specialists, students, programmers, media junkies, musicians and more with relative ease (since this is the everything box) as long as the design, functionality, ease of use, and form factor does not appeal to only those that are predisposed to ignore such things already.


What are the current criticisms of the P1? Does anybody know? Find out what they are and seek to fix them. If you can do that you can have your cake and eat it too with very little compromise. Someone brought up Apple (a few times I think). Personally I despise their products and most likely will never buy them. One reason why is that the hipster in me refuses to jump on the bandwagon. OK. Fine. That doesn't mean they still don't sell a crap tonne. Why do they sell a crap tonne? Figure out what they do right. It doesn't mean copy them, it means study them so that you understand what works and why and how to make your offering appealing without being an Apple clone. They are expensive products with a nice form factor, quality build, the appearance of durability, large amounts of apps etc. To most they are aesthitically pleasing.


For the P2 I would make a good looking device that looks like it could take a meter drop to the floor with no ill effects. I would make it so it felt comfortable in the hand with a nice weight balance. I might add 3g so that people could download and net outside of wi-fi hotspots or maybe access dropbox(or blackblaze to access certain media types.) Maybe a kick stand so that I could prop it up and browse with a bluetooth/usb micro mouse or doodle with a bamboo tablet. I would include, out of the box, strong social networking features, dictionaries, and the option to install the 100's of thousands of free ebooks out there or maybe even wikipedia (with media/images or without). Maybe a nice comicbook reader is available. I'd have an uber youtube/vimeo player (VLC?). I'd allow media playback control via earbud. I would have dedicated media control buttons on the hardware. Scheduler, alarm, task manager, calendar, scientific calculater,notes, tracker(for making tunes), translater, spaced repitition learning system (Anki/Mnemosoyne), lynxx, an IDE of whatever flavor, all either pre-installed or pick and choose install. Integrated completely with the OS and easily accessible. I could go on but I've digressed enough already. OK one more. The ability to stream audio over bluetooth to my car radio.


Edit:


Sorry a few more:


Home button. Shift button so that I could contextually redo/undo, escape/close, foreward/backward browser navigate with the shoulder buttons. Even with all this there is a whole lot I've left out. Assuming I mention all the rest and it is decided to cut out a majority of these hardware based features, would the size of 2 SD slots allow us to incorporate some/most of these features without making the device huge? Possibly. The Zaurus C series kind of did it, however it was pretty thick.


2nd Edit:


Just wanted to add a few things (taking a break from writing proofs):


It's not me you have to convince. I've been trying for some time for you guys to lay down some logic based arguments based on evidence. I've shown that economically speaking microSD cards compare favorably to SD in terms of physical size/cost/speed/capacity. We know that ED wants at least one SD slot, party because he just bought a 128gb card and would like to use it. We also know that Craig provided a shot of 2 SD cards on top of a control pad for a frame of reference as to how large they actually are. This implies that speed/capacity/convenience arguments have already been heard or considered. You need another method of attack.


Consider WoW players griping about this or that and how it will break the game abd they'll boycot if x feature is included or removed. Devs mostly ignore those types of arguments. Change occurs however, when empirical data is shown and logs are parsed, math etc is used to prove th devs wrong. That's what you need. The WII doesn't even play DVD's and their online sucks-people still buy them. The PS3 had backwards compatibility and SACD removed pissing off legions of fans. Google and Microsoft changed their privacy terms of agreement-people still use gmail/google etc. Unlimited internet service is now unlimited but with a cap. The ipad is basically a supersized iphone that doesn't even include external storage. I don't bring these up as a direct comparison but only to show what type of position you're in. I have no doubt that a large sum of you will purchase the P2 even if there's no SD slot. You'll buy it because the P2 will be the only next gen thing that for the most part serves your needs.


Capacity/speed/convenience arguments aren't likely to win because the team has already indicated where they are probably headed. If you plan to change their minds you will need to refine your arguments to convince them to move in the direction no one else is currently going. That itself could be a pretty good point if done right. Things aren't completely written in stone. Do it right and you may get what you want or at least a one slot SD card compromise.