Microsoft/Android/iOS Debate (Split from Cotton Candy topic)

[dreamer]

For me, I like to be involved in knowing how my computer works. What makes it tick and how I can fix stuff. For windows this has always been impossible: no documentation and a great wall of gui that blocks your every move. OSX is unixy enough to be fun, but when you really get in to stuff it feels like a unix that has been tortured and brainwashed and now only knows pretty colors.


And about windows 8 -> I think microsoft is making the same mistake Ubuntu did with Unity: all the users hate it and move along.

 

[Miner49er]

I'll add my 2p:


I will admit I'm an idealist. I like the fact that there is an open-source OS, that nobody owns and nobody has to pay for. I don't want the world to be run by a single company and as the world is becoming more and more controlled by computers, I would like Linux to be the center of it. I don't want a corporation at the helm.


Besides that, I LIKE to tinker with an OS, I LIKE to figure stuff out, write little scripts for doing things. I like the fact that I can write very simple little C programs like writing to the parallel port to switch my arcade monitor on and off. Yes, I could do that in Windows but I would probably have to install an IDE and .(bloody)NET (okay, I know ther are CLI compilers but I would rather use linux anyway). I like the fact that I can tinker with the OS (eg. install Debian without X-Windows for my arcade cab)


Now, I do agree that there is a 'problem' with some software. Just the other day, I was writing questions for a quiz I was running and Abiword just crashed/shutdown and I lost half an hours work. This annoyed me but I then switched to OpenOffice and all seemed well again . I also recently converted some video footage from an old digi-cam and for some reason, the audio wouldn't work in VLC but mplayer could handle it perfectly (turns out, VLC doesn't seem to like 8bit/11Khz audio on videos). Ubuntu seems to be getting weaker and weaker as time goes on and I will switch back to stable debian at some point. The Compiz desktop fails occasionally which is a pain.


On the plus side, I have a machine in my living room that has had the same debian OS on it for about 7 years! It has run a MythTV frontend all that time with very few problems. It doesn't slow down ever or crash. It Just Works.


Also, I installed ubuntu on my dads machine about 3-4 years ago. He has no problem and he's completely useless with computers.


tl;dr: I'm an idealist and a tinkerer, that's basically why I use Linux.

 

[pmprog]

For windows this has always been impossible: no documentation and a great wall of gui that blocks your every move.

I'm calling you out on BS right here!


I know people don't like Microsoft for various reasons (a lot of them justified), but you certainly can't say there's no documentation. Have you ever been to the MSDN site? They even release debugging symbols for things like DirectX.


You, sir, are talking crap

 

[Miner49er]

For windows this has always been impossible: no documentation and a great wall of gui that blocks your every move.

I'm calling you out on BS right here!


I know people don't like Microsoft for various reasons (a lot of them justified), but you certainly can't say there's no documentation. Have you ever been to the MSDN site? They even release debugging symbols for things like DirectX.


You, sir, are talking crap

Agreed. Though, I rarely use MSDN nowadays - I just google straight away! Obviously because windows has such a large user-base, most issues have been encountered before and discussed/solved so it's easy to find answers. It's just annoying when the cause of the issue is a bug in IE...

 

[DaMummy]

Vista, Internet Explorer, and Fat filesystem....that is all

 

[gadgetoid]

Besides that, I LIKE to tinker with an OS, I LIKE to figure stuff out, write little scripts for doing things. I

That, sir, is exactly what I refer to when I call linux users Masochists. I'm guilty of it myself, for a good 10 years I've screwed with linux in various ways, from Corel and Mandrake, to Gentoo, Debian, Yellow Dog (PS3) Godknowswhat on the Wii and, of course, the flavour of the past (5?) years: Ubuntu. None of these, not even Ubuntu, really clicked with me for out-of-my-way desktop use. I can't even list all the window managers I've tried. I have been into that horrible, masochistic pit of time wasting and emerged the other side with shit to get done.


I like OSX because it has most of the stuff I need from linux, plus Adobe Creative Suite... and it isn't Windows. Recently OSX has been trying even harder to get out of the users way, and this has oft caused jarring rifts between user expectations and reality; missing scrollbars, inverted scrolling and desaturated icons are all things that we notice because they are annoying in their efforts to get out of our way.


I dislike Linux on the desktop almost as much as I dislike dealing with Windows as a server OS. Unfortunately, the latter is something I can't avoid *shudder*.


Also, Windows 7 is a necessary evil for the wonders of Skyrim, which is awful on consoles.


Some amalgamation of Windows, Linux and OSX would be the only truly awesome desktop OS... Windows 7, that is. I don't know what the fuck Microsoft are thinking with Windows 8, but the Windows version numbers seem to directly correspond with the number of nails they're hammering into their own coffin. I'm not saying businesses will ever abandon Windows, but with 8 being so jarring, annoying and shittacular... full, again, of changes for changes sake, businesses aren't going to be in a hurry to upgrade.


I think I just hate everything.

 

[milkshake]

well I personally really like all the new ideas going into windows 8, its easy for consumers to consumer content and it still has that relaible desktop version of windows for the people that need it.

which equals WIN WIN

 

[dreamer]

Have you ever been to the MSDN site?

I don't think that website even existed the last time I used windows as my main OS.


With unix-type systems all the documentation is RIGHT THERE. You don't need to go to some website to find what you are looking for.


Most things you need are a simple 'man <program>' away.


The thing I always hated on windows was trying to do some adminy-stuff. You have to dig through 10 layers of admin panels to find that one radio-button you need to click .. if you can even find it. (not to mention the NEXT time you want to tweak this setting ..)


In linux these type of configuration-issues are typically only one text-editor away.


I have no idea how this is with windows 7, I haven't actually touched a microsoft product in over 4 years (only occasionally on some school-pc or for those particular programs that don't run in wine and I put in a VM, which is always XP).

Vista, Internet Explorer, and Fat filesystem....that is all

List of everything that's WRONG?


Then don't forget SilverLight ..

 

[Miner49er]

Besides that, I LIKE to tinker with an OS, I LIKE to figure stuff out, write little scripts for doing things. I

That, sir, is exactly what I refer to when I call linux users Masochists.

Heh, I do agree with you on that. I _do_ put myself through some crap for seemingly no reason what-so-ever! But I just got bored of windows very quickly. I don't play games that take up loads of time, I much prefer figuring stuff out and although gaming offers that it seems a tad pointless most of the time (which is why I like retro-games, play 'em for five minutes and then put them down and move on).


I remember moving over to Win95 from AmigaOS and although it was fun at first, I quickly ran out of things to fiddle with - it was lovely to find linux and it's crazy complexity, so I could let it whip me to death whilst I lie there with an orange ball in my mouth (full gimp suit optional).

 

[Miner49er]

Have you ever been to the MSDN site?

I don't think that website even existed the last time I used windows as my main OS.


With unix-type systems all the documentation is RIGHT THERE. You don't need to go to some website to find what you are looking for.


Most things you need are a simple 'man <program>' away.

Yes, I find myself typing man 'prog-name' on windows at work. I do like that about linux.

 

[milkshake]

well one thing I hate is fanboys of anything and there are plenty in this thread which means in the end this so called debate is mute, it all boils down to personal prefference and thats it, nuff said.

 

[Miner49er]

well one thing I hate is fanboys of anything and there are plenty in this thread which means in the end this so called debate is mute, it all boils down to personal prefference and thats it, nuff said.

Hmmm, further explanation required. Do you dislike people who like 'stuff' over other 'stuff'? Does that define a fanboi?


It does indeed boil down to personal preference though yes. I have a strong dislike for big corporations and capitalism even though I understand that without the capitalist system we wouldn't have all the amazing things around us (if it wasn't for Windows/Microsoft, I probably wouldn't have heard about linux). However, I think we have reached a point where corporations have too much control and stifle free-thinking, development and even government. That's what I like about Linux, Pandora, Rockbox, Android etc.


Probably derailed the thread a bit there, so I apologise.

 

[milkshake]

Hmmm, further explanation required. Do you dislike people who like 'stuff' over other 'stuff'? Does that define a fanboi?

its not the fact that they like one thing over the other, its when their arguments are invalid because either they are not researched and thus not based on fact or based on their own personal opionions/prefferences which means they tend to be one sided.


where as non-fanboys are open to all sides, they may have a personal prefference but they dont put down the ideas and prefferences of others, and they stick to fact rather then un-researched personal thoughts, when makeing there points in the debate.

 

[DaMummy]

well, what if we actually tried something, and just didnt like it, or maybe even hated it as a personal preference? i personally dont like anything apple has put out in the last decade or so, not because its apple, but just because i dont like their product, or think its highly inferior to other, much cheaper at times, products. while i dont really hate windows, its gotten to a point where its really annoying to me, as apparently im one of those people that will somehow crash any windows machine with simple tasks such as plugging a usb stick into it.


but unlike many other people, or as you like to call them, "fanboys", i have nothing against the Microsoft company, nor Bill Gates.


but than on the other hand, Xbox is the only gaming system i would never purchase, no matter how moddable it is, which is pretty much the first quality i look for in a gaming device, or other random gadget

 

[milkshake]

if you tried something and didnt like it then thats fine, its your prefference/opinion.


It doesnt mean that the system you dont like isnt liked,enjoyed or thought usefull by others.


It doesnt mean that he system is rubbish because you personally dont get along with it.


Fanboys would just slate something and say its rubbish just because they prefer something else wether that be OS/product/service.


That mental attute is just rediculas and in some cases childish.

 

[sebt3]

Wow, I'm having some serious deja vu. Seems like these same posts from the same people have been happening over and over again..

... Wrong ! I'm not used to stand behind windows, otherwise you're right

I don't think that website even existed the last time I used windows as my main OS.

the MSDN library existed even before windows had a tcp/ip stack.... It wasnt a website at this time, just 4/5 cdrom in the visualstudio box. And yes that does mean that visualstudio come with more space for documentation than for binary installation... So dont come to tell us that MS dont give docs

 

[WizardStan]

Fanboys would just slate something and say its rubbish just because they prefer something else wether that be OS/product/service.

There are certain universal truisms that go beyond opinion though. If someone says they like their microwave because it isn't properly grounded and therefore gives them a major shock every time they go to reheat their pizza, that is technically an opinion but I wouldn't hold it against anyone to say "this microwave is rubbish because it gives you a major shock every time you use it". It should be obvious that a microwave that doesn't shock you is better than one that does.


So to it is with operating systems, there are certain things that are (arguably, other than the rare person that actually likes questionably broken things) provably superior. I don't have a problem with people making these truism statements, I complain when people make truism statements that are provably false.

 

[milkshake]

So to it is with operating systems, there are certain things that are (arguably, other than the rare person that actually likes questionably broken things) provably superior.

But who is to say its broken? thats objectionable unless it truely does something it isnt ment to or visa versa.

 

[Prometheus]

(eg. install Debian without X-Windows for my arcade cab)

Not quite one for this thread, but: Pictures of cabinet, please!

 

[Miner49er]

(eg. install Debian without X-Windows for my arcade cab)

Not quite one for this thread, but: Pictures of cabinet, please!

To be honest the cab itself looks pretty rubbish but it's the software setup and small hardware mods that make it interesting to me: Here's a small video of my son paying on it

https://www.youtube.com/embed/N7UdItx3M9A?feature=oembed

There are others on there but they're before I installed the PC inside and sorted out advancemenu.


(I do love it though)