Microprocessor Upgrade Modules

[Asaggynoodle]

Greetings ED,

I was curious as to the plans to keep the device alive after the original sales take place for the Pyra.
Now that the CPU module is indeed modular (ZIF Socket?), could we in the future perhaps see upgrade modules to increase the performance as time progresses? Maybe perhaps faster revisions of whatever SOC is being used, or even perhaps upgraded RAM amounts (Assuming 32-Bit Limitations).

I'm very aware of the creativity that can be done with possible upgrades as these, it has/is been very common even for 3rd parties to enhance the lifespan of products for many years beyond their original capabilities using custom Processor Modules (Think PowerPC Mac, Amiga, etc). I think with some of the talent here, we could see that same implementation of creativity to make the Pyra's lifespan and potential even far beyond that of the Pandora.

In addition, will we (the community) ever see the Board Schematics/Part lists that are used for the aforementioned Parts? I'd really like to see what some of the other Electrical/Computer Engineers on here could build for us.

Thanks-- and Kindest Regards,
Samuel.

 

[rygD]

I believe ED has said several times that he will release all files for the Pyra. I think part of the idea behind making it modular is to allow flexibility, with a possibility of upgraded CPU boards based on sales/interest.

ED (or those interested in making a CPU board) can confirm.

 

[TrashyMG]

or even perhaps upgraded RAM amounts (Assuming 32-Bit Limitations).

The OMAP 5 can technically address 8GB of Ram, despite being a 32-bit processor. But my guess if another processor module is release it most likely won't be an OMAP 5.

 

[Wally]

We should worry about getting the Pyra out first

 

[Asaggynoodle]

The OMAP 5 can technically address 8GB of Ram, despite being a 32-bit processor. But my guess if another processor module is release it most likely won't be an OMAP 5.

Interesting, I've not looked into OMAP in a long while. I'm assuming that is done via PAE then, which would then be an OS feature which would be far easier to implement.
While I've only seen the Dummy Processor Module, I'm going to assume there is going to be a pretty good amount of PCB space for multiple LPDDR Packages, which could easily stack up to that full 8GB-- which would be incredible in a form factor this small. I'm going to be very confident that's going to be pretty spendy though to have that many GB's per RAM IC (talking production cost). Not to mention what quantity they need to be bought in. Lots to think about.

@Wally
I'm talking over the next year(s). I'm going to guess the Pyra will be available within the next few months, as of the most recent updates on the progress are quite incredibly impressive.

 

[RubisDrake]

It sounds like a good solution might eventually be modular hardware or replaceable hardware. The age of modular smartphones are coming in to the market soon, hopefully by 2016, we will see them pop up from places like the PhoneBloks and Project Ara. But I think even if that happens, it sounds like ED will focus on doing the base board and hardware for now, and not bother with more complex HW like that. So far, modular tech is very new.

Also I don't think most third party manufacturers are going to be able to make a Pyra board replacement easily. Remember, the Pyra is not, in the most accurate and strict definition of the word, an open hardware project. The type of hardware they are using has to still be licensed from Texas Instruments, I think. Anyone who can get an ARM SoC license is paying like a quarter of the cost of investment, anyway. Though I could be exaggerating

In that case, third-party ARM boards seem fairly unlikely, especially since things like the Pyra and OpenPandora are not "popular enough on the market for general consumers".
I just have a feeling that's why...

 

[Askarus]

In my opinion it's nice to have a CPU board in theory.
But in reality?
I'd rather see a whole new device in some years.
Why?
I'd want USB-C and SD UHS-II ports and 4k out on the Main board in some years.
In my opinion the mainboard will be nearly as fast outdated as the CPU is.
Of course, the whole base can be upgraded but that would require a new case as well...
Screen upgrade is easier I think. No case redesign.

 

[WizardStan]

Remember, the Pyra is not, in the most accurate and strict definition of the word, an open hardware project.

I don't see why not. EvilDragon hasn't released the full spec yet but he has said he's going to. Once those are available anyone will be able to produce CPU modules however they want. It may not necessarily be free or "free" depending on the type of board you build, but it's still open.

 

[SNESFAN]

What number revision of HDMI is the pyra using? That could potentially need a hardware bump in the far future as well. If powering external displays at high enough resolution, the spec on HDMI might get outdated if the chipset is capable of pushing more and more pixels.

Unlikely with today's mobile chipsets, HDMI 1.3 has 10Gbps throughput, which is limited compared to HDMI 2.0 has 18Gbps and can power 4K @ 60fps. 5-10 years from now, that might be a bottleneck.

I agree as well with the UHS II and USB C as USB 4.0 will someday (5-10 years?) be a real thing.

The case shouldn't need any major redesigns if any I don't think. Connector ports should remain roughly the same size I'd imagine.

The modular CPU board, can keep it relevant in the areas that really matter for at least a decade I think. The pandora stuff outside of what was off boarded on the pyra lasted pretty well for as old as it is. (Except the proprietary svideo out and hub less USB 2.0 ugh...)

 

[TrashyMG]

OMAP5 is 1.4a compliant.

 

[SNESFAN]

Is that spec on the GPU or the adapter or Both?

 

[TrashyMG]

The Power VR SGX 544MP2 is built onto the SoC, which supports this.

 

[WizardStan]

Is the revision in any way dependent on the connector? I would have suspected that it was just to do with the output, but then again USB3.0 and SDXC are things.

 

[SNESFAN]

That's what I was attempting to find out if anyone knew. Not a whole lot of info to compare it to as the GPU housing the connector/controller are normally replaced when you replace the thing powering it.

What I could find was the HDMI cable much like cat 5 cable vs cat 5e or cat 6 has a bandwidth cap if not "high speed HDMI" it won't support 1080p, 4K and deep color (at longer cable lengths)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#Cables

The pin out, as of HDMI 2.0 appears to be the same unlike USB C and UHS 2

So if the HDMI on the pyra controller board is literally just a pass through like a port replicator from the same pins on the CPU board. As long as it supports the frequencies similar to the high speed HDMI then it shouldn't be a problem. This might be a Nikolaus / ED question though.

 

[Exophase]

The Power VR SGX 544MP2 is built onto the SoC, which supports this.

The SGX544MP2 GPU doesn't know or care about something like HDMI. That's handled by other subsystems in the SoC.

 

[TrashyMG]

The SGX544MP2 GPU doesn't know or care about something like HDMI. That's handled by other subsystems in the SoC.

Okay, yeah I got that...

From what I read from SNESFAN post he was thinking there was a seperate discrete GPU, I just meant to say the OMAP5 itself outputs HDMI 1.4a directly.

 

[Grench]

Personally, I would like to first see the Pyra be a success and sell tens of thousands of units (or more).

However, if possible, I would also like to see an alternative SoC module created to handle a Cherry Trail SoC.
http://ark.intel.com/products/85475/Intel-Atom-x7-Z8700-Processor-2M-Cache-up-to-2_40-GHz
Note - I would like that X86 chip in a unit running Linux. No desire for Win stuff on it.

Now, that said, I'm really looking forward to what has been done on the dev boards for X86 emulation being applied to the Pyra. It may be that all of the things that I was really wanting an X86 version of the Pyra for may actually be able to run on the Pyra itself.

The video snippet of Neverwinter Nights running on a dev board without 3D acceleration using Wine shows huge promise towards not needing an X86 SoC at all.

Now - sticking with ARM or a bit, but drawing from Intel's Tick Tock principle...
Tick - Get the Pyra going and sell a pile of them.
Tock - Create a next generation SoC for the Pyra - even if the rest of Pyra's existing hardware can't fully support it.
Tick - using the SoC from the above Tock, create a new main board to fully support

wash, rinse,repeat

 

[ible]

you may need a few other tocks, as intel is doing...
(they're not even following their own principle...)