Micro USB plz?

[thatgui]

microUSB and miniUSB are not the same thing. This doesn't relate to my arguments at all, but rather to the arguments made by other people earlier in the topic for why to use miniUSB.

I know that they are not the same thing. But in my opinion it does, as one of your points is that the small footprint is counterproductive in terms of overall durability.
I still would like to know how you want to put a USB-B type receptable into the Pandora - I know someone mentioned to rotate the receptable, but even then it takes up too much space.

 

[Binky]

35 MB/s is a faster speed than most anyone gets when downloading a file online.

So...?

Internet-access speeds are constantly increasing.

The Pyra will be a long-term device

 

[_wb_]

35 MB/s is a faster speed than most anyone gets when downloading a file online.

So...?

Internet-access speeds are constantly increasing.

The Pyra will be a long-term device

I'm not talking about internet access, just using wifi for all data transfers between your devices. You don't need fast internet access to send a file from your laptop to your Pyra over your home wifi network. The data never needs to go past your router.

Gigabit wifi will probably be not uncommon even when the Pyra hits the market. See e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11ad

Getting 35MB/s over wifi is not that hard nowadays, e.g. with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11n-2009 you have 4 channels of up to 18MB/s each.

Anyway, I'm not suggesting we don't need USB ports . There are still many advantages to physical cables, like power consumption, reliability, latency etc. But if you're that worried about the mechanical robustness of the port, you can decide not to use the port at all and do everything over wifi.

 

[bzar]

^ You do see he replied to God Ginrai and not you, right?

Yes, you did. My mistake for misreading. ^_^

 

[WizardStan]

Anecdotally speaking (which I hate but I've got nothing else right now), I put my phone through hell. It's an HTC G2 (aka Desire Z) and I drop it all the time, I've tripped over the charging cable and thrown it off the desk, I've caught it by that same cable and pulled it back up from the ground, and I'm not very nice when I unplug it. After 4 (almost 5 now, I think) years of at least daily pluggings it is still perfectly fine. As a test I just plugged it in and shook it from the cable and it didn't let go: that's robustness.

This suggests that it is at least possible to produce a device with a strong microUSB connection. It doesn't mean that everyone else "did it wrong", but at least in this one case they "did it right" and means it could be possible to have the same strength in a Pyra regardless of the connector type.

35 MB/s is a faster speed than most anyone gets when downloading a file online. That is more than adequate.

USB3.0 isn't just about the speeds, it's got an entirely new architecture behind it. It won't be long before devices start showing up that are strictly 3.0 because it is in general better, not just because of speed but for all the other features it brings with it. That's why I'm personally interested in USB3.0 and why it needs to be a USB3.0 host. Have you taken that into consideration in your counter arguments, or are you strictly focused on speeed vs strength?

 

[comradekingu]

So more speed is a tangible goal whereas strength is a perceived one, beyond the point where it can actually work in practice?

 

[bzar]

The speed is a definite benefit, the strength is a potential issue that can be compensated with proper case and PCB design.

 

[comradekingu]

I feel esata is very cool and all, but if its that or usb3 i would take the speed. You could do harddrive over usb3 without too much of a hit. But it would be nice if both could be done. USB3 can be flaky for some uses still, like booting from it. Has to do with controllers, as it was very much rolled out in draft, but should be ok now.

 

[bzar]

Why would it be one or the other? eSATA over USB2 host port, USB3 through the OTG port?

 

[comradekingu]

I think the eSATA usb combo fullsize port is usb2 only? Its kinda hard to follow the discussion, because everyone seems to have a set way of doing things which they dont disclose, and then spend time on the problems relating to it instead of explaining the whole picture

 

[WizardStan]

From what I can read in this spec sheet, the SATA pins on the OMAP5 are completely dedicated, they don't even have a GPIO multiplexed with them. Seems like a no-brainer to at least try and put SATA (and by extension eSATA) somewhere, even if it's just 6 exposed copper pads on the board that you need to solder your own connector onto.

 

[hedwards]

The point here is that the jack is perfectly fine for anybody that's taking any kind of reasonable care when inserting and ejecting the jack.

 
This is good.


It suggests that with proper care and attention, robust microUSB implementations are possible.

Yea, sounds all well and good until a lot of users are sending their Pyras back to EvilDragon for RMAs because of microUSB ports that they didn't give "proper care and attention" to when plugging and unplugging.

-God Ginrai

Why would he be repairing that for free?

Bottom line is that if they properly engineer the port it's well within the realm of possibility of outliving the device it's attached to. At some point people need to understand that a warranty does not grant them the right to break their units and make somebody else fix it. The microUSB port is more than robust enough if properly designed.

The whole notion of ED being forced to replace devices that were broken because the end user couldn't exercise any care, is just ridiculous. I realize that in other parts of the world that warranties have more to them, but I can't imagine that abuse is something covered by the warranty. What's next, replacements because you dropped it?

 

[hedwards]

Why did you even bother to respond if you couldn't be bothered to read my post?

I did read your post. You said that you would not be having problems with your microUSB port if the device had a better battery. There is no way that the battery can effect the structural integrity of the microUSB port. Therefore, it must be because given a better battery life, you would plug your device in less. Hence my argument that even with a better battery life, there would still be people who would plug it in all the time.


You should really think things through before you hurl an accusation like that at someone. You might have read my response, but you obviously didn't think about why I made that response.

-God Ginrai

And precisely what does that have to do with the assertion that it's sturdy enough? People on average will be plugging the thing in less frequently. And even if they do plug the thing in every single day, the port is still capable of dealing with that.

And no, the battery doesn't affect the structural integrity, but it does affect how frequently the device is plugged in. In the case of that device, you really have to plug it in at least once a day if you're using it much. And even with that, it still has held up to 4 years of use.

If you read my post, you certainly didn't bother to comprehend what I wrote. If you're going to respond to my posts, at least spend some time to read them for comprehension, please.

 

[Binky]

From what I can read in this spec sheet, the SATA pins on the OMAP5 are completely dedicated, they don't even have a GPIO multiplexed with them. Seems like a no-brainer to at least try and put SATA (and by extension eSATA) somewhere, even if it's just 6 exposed copper pads on the board that you need to solder your own connector onto.

...and, I say, since an eSATA+USB socket is the same size as a plain USB-A socket, the SATA pins should be wired there.

 

[_wb_]

I think the eSATA usb combo fullsize port is usb2 only? Its kinda hard to follow the discussion, because everyone seems to have a set way of doing things which they dont disclose, and then spend time on the problems relating to it instead of explaining the whole picture

No, it could be USB 3.0 too. The problem is that OMAP5 seems to only include one USB 3.0 OTG and three USB 2.0 hosts. So if you make a USB 3.0 + eSATAp port, you cannot have any OTG port, which is not acceptable. For that reason, it makes more sense to have a micro-USB 3.0 OTG, and a USB 2.0 host + eSATAp.

Although maybe with a built-in USB 3.0 hub we could perhaps have both of them be 3.0. If that is feasible and doesn't cost too much board space, it would be my preferred option.

 

[slaeshjag]

It doesn't work that way. USB only allows one host per bus. And the controller can't be in both host and slave mode at the same time.

 

[comradekingu]

Can otg be used if the usb3 is reserved for a dockport?  With that and 3 other usb ports with one of them being +eSATA everything should be saturated?

 

[slaeshjag]

The USB3 lines can only be used together with the OTG port. You can use the OTG port without the USB3 lines, but the USB3 lines lose all USB functionality if you do so.

 

[God Ginrai]

The Pyra will be a long-term device

Not if it's not durable to last that long.

And no, the battery doesn't affect the structural integrity, but it does affect how frequently the device is plugged in. In the case of that device, you really have to plug it in at least once a day if you're using it much. And even with that, it still has held up to 4 years of use.

If you read my post, you certainly didn't bother to comprehend what I wrote. If you're going to respond to my posts, at least spend some time to read them for comprehension, please.

I understood that you were implying that a user would plug it in less and even said that was your implication. And I'm saying that it doesn't apply to all users. For example, whenever I am not using my 3DS, I always plug it into the charger, so that it is always 100% when I want to use it. I am not the only person I know who does this. I know many people who have done the same for their DSes or iDevices and phones. You are trying to take your own habits and use it as a blanket statement to prove your point about durability of the device. However, your point falls apart like a house of cards because not everyone is the same as you.

I am done taking my time to read and respond to your posts only for you to act like a jackass in return. Unlike Grench and the others who are actually putting forth ideas and discussing the benefits of what they want, you're only goal in this topic seems to be putting me down.

-God Ginrai

 

[DAP]

Robustness all depends on the part chosen.

This: http://media.digikey.com/PDF/Data%20Sheets/Hirose%20PDFs/ZX360D-B-10P%20drawing%20.pdf

with through hole tabs would be more robust than this: http://katalog.we-online.de/em/datasheet/692622030100.pdf

This: http://media.digikey.com/pdf/Data%20Sheets/Tyco%20Electonics%20AMP%20PDFs/1932259_Dwg.pdf at 17.56mm tall would just be ugly. That is as tall as the base section of the current Pandora. The Pyra would have to get thicker to accommodate it.

If you want robust at the expense of everything else, buy a brick.