Merry christmas and a happy new year (2012-12-25)


Status
Not open for further replies.
What an odd perspective. Just because I may not know exactly why the sky is blue doesn't mean it isn't.
Apples and oranges, ones fact, and you'd be stupid to argue it (the color of the sky). The other is just ridiculous. I think I know myself better than someone who claims I do something with no proof of it, or logic to back up why I even would.
 
Just because I may not know exactly why the sky is blue doesn't mean it isn't.
sky_color.png


Just couldn't resist :p
 
yes. 1 item listed at 0.99c will cost you $1 at the checkout. but 3 would be rounded down to $2.95 IF you pay with cash.

but if you pay with a EFTPOS card then you pay the exact amount.

back on topic........  a Belated Merry Christmas to all and a Happy New Year.....

i hope this is the year i can afford to get this wonderful device.
 
I've never felt like something was cheaper or was compelled to buy it because it was 1 cent under the next dollar amount.
That you've noticed. Part of the trick is that you don't realize it happens. It is literally impossible to say "that doesn't affect me" because the whole point is that you don't notice it, subtle as it is.
Which is a pretty strong indicator that it's BS.

This area of study is sufficiently poorly studied that telling people how or why they do something is a complete load. It's the same quality of research that leads to BS like "repressed memories" and most things that Fraud talked about.

Freud maybe older hat in psychology but dont underestimate the influence he has had on shaping the world around us profoundly.

If you can spare the 4hrs, this documentary shows just how far reaching his theories have been.

The Century of the Self by Adam Curtis

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/the-century-of-the-self/

http://youtu.be/OmUzwRCyTSo

Happy New Year to all & I hope you all enjoyed your Christmas in whichever chosen fashion suits you :)

Heres to 2013 as the year of Pandora

edit: My 1Ghz has been shipped now (Yay Thanks ED and Askarus :) ) ...Time to celebrate with a cigar......Dammit Freud!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Hmm, gonna add some extra thoughts/comments:

People have usually made up their mind if they want something long before they see the price, all the price does is trigger the parts of the brain that decide if you can afford it. :)
Um, that's basically equal to saying "if we want something, the price will dictate whether we buy it or not". Which is simply common sense. You just added a little bit more wrapping around it. :D

(or maybe I misunderstood something?)
Not quite, I was saying that we know if we want something or not, that is conscious knowledge. Whether we can afford it is for most of us more of a feeling than simply "I have X money, I can afford to buy Y", mainly because accountants aside, most of us don't map out our spending for any given month exactly. Which is probably why most of us occasionally check our bank statement and are shocked about how little or much we have left over come the 20th.

The .99 trick plays on that feeling of how affordable something is, but it isn't the only trick.

I've been slowly upgrading my vast DVD collection to Blu-ray, and I have price points in my mind for categories of titles. I don't mind paying under £5 for a good catalogue disc like say Gremlins, it's a film I've seen loads of times but I love, yet I've got the DVD and loads of other Blu-rays to watch. So when I see it under £5 I'll buy it.

But we know that if I see it for £5.29 I'll rationalise the 29p away and get it, which is what I did today. It's only 29p, but then I'd rationalise 79p away too, and tbh I'd probably rationalise 99p as well.

It's not logical, because I know one day that Blu-ray will be under £5, but it's close enough. And that is probably how things work with larger prices. £399.99 is under £400, it feels under £400, and most people think about prices this way. We think, I'll buy that when it's under a round number, so we get used to feeling like things that end in 99 are way less than the rounded up price than they actually are.

At least thats my theory anyway. :)

I don't think it's a case about whether it affects us or not. It's about whether we are smart enough to acknowledge it and similarly counter-measure against it. Like for example, forming an impression of a sleazy car salesman, or systematically rounding every price to the nearest round number. Or in grocery shopping, always checking competing products' kilo/liter/bulk price to know where it stands on the relative scale. After that, the .99 doesn't seem that effective anymore.
I agree that in many circumstances, many people can overcome this type of programming. Governments in a few countries (UK included) have introduced cooling off periods to prevent salesmen from pressuring people into buying things that they later regret.

This is because most people who have bought something on the spur of the moment, when manipulated into doing so, later realise what happened.

And it's not about feeling superior or some sort of elitism, it's just the simple acceptance of the fact that some people are smarter than others and that certain hobbies require a little bit more intelligence than others. Like linux certainly does. Think about your friends who use linux on a daily basis. Would you say they are smarter or dumber than the average person? And I'm not talking about devices using "dumbed-down" Android, btw, I'm talking about devices where people have had to make a deliberate decision to opt to linux, like on desktop computers or laptops.
Technically Mac users use Unix on a daily basis, and most people would say Unix users would be smarter than Linux users. Personally I think there is a short phrase which neatly sums up any such philosophical thought process like the above, "bad science".

Furthermore, IE users actually ARE on average less technologically competent than Firefox/Chrome users. Note: I didn't even say "dumber", as there are different types of intelligence. But I also think the people reading tech sites are smart enough to pick out the "average" or "statistically", and know what it entails. They also usually know something about the story behind the browser wars, and thus understand the factors behind the numbers. "Tabloid news" are another thing entirely, and are directed at the masses.
I think the eagerness to believe that IE users are dumber says more about those of us which enjoyed reading (and I know I did) the fake science news last year, than IE users themselves:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-14389430

Own empiric notions from Finland:

Different chains seem to have different pricing cultures. Some favor odd numbers (like 1.43€), while others prefer the .99 trick. Also one very often-seen method for sales is using round numbers, especially for multiple items, like 4 chocolate bars for a total of 2€. Games and music are almost always with .99, except if they're in the bargain bin, which means 5€ or 10€ round prices. It's also VERY common (possibly even mandatory?) to list the litre/kilo/bulk price, if at all possible. Our smallest coin is 5 cents, so the final check-out price is rounded to the nearest .05 or .00, unless paying with plastic.
There a technique in advertising where you make something stand out by just being different. It only works whilst most other people don't do it.

But anyway, a lot of this is a mute point, as clearly the Pandora's target market are people who don't understand limited companies and UK law, that just want to sue Craig. So really what ED should do is release a special limited edition Pandora with a special pre-filled in class action law suit. :)
 
If you don't know the hows or the whys, then claiming to know the whats is BS.

If you don't know why or how it works then extending it as broadly as they do is just complete BS.
Gravity. We have no idea the how, just the slightest grasp on the tail end of the why, but when you drop something it absolutely will fall in the direction of the ground, or more aptly the direction of the most massive body. Study after study has shown that massive objects pull each other together, just as study after study has found people more likely to purchase an item for $2.99 than for $3. We don't know exactly why in either case, but that doesn't change the fact that it happens.If you're going to argue that psychological studies are BS because they can't prove everything about the results then I hope you are prepared to extend that to every region of science.
 
While this discussion is certainly fascinating, it has gotten very far off topic.

:p
 
^ Don't worry you'll get used to it eventually. ;)


<ontopic>Merry next Christmas + happy next year.</ontopic>
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Not quite, I was saying that we know if we want something or not, that is conscious knowledge. Whether we can afford it is for most of us more of a feeling than simply "I have X money, I can afford to buy Y", mainly because accountants aside, most of us don't map out our spending for any given month exactly. Which is probably why most of us occasionally check our bank statement and are shocked about how little or much we have left over come the 20th.

The .99 trick plays on that feeling of how affordable something is, but it isn't the only trick.

<Blu-ray buying routine>
... Um, isn't that just stating that the .99 trick exists? I even agreed on it, how does that relate to the part you originally quoted, which was about linux people being stereotypically smarter and thus noticing the trick?
Technically Mac users use Unix on a daily basis, and most people would say Unix users would be smarter than Linux users. Personally I think there is a short phrase which neatly sums up any such philosophical thought process like the above, "bad science".
Emphasis on *technically*. *Technically* we all use assembly code. But we're quite far from it in practice. Also, you do realize Linux is based on Unix too, right?
Well, that's beside the point, as in any case:

Linux and Android

-same analogy as-

Unix and iOS/OSX

Point being: all of Apple's systems are also dumbed-down. That's what Apple actually markets to its customers: ease of use. I wouldn't expect much of a technological competence from the average Apple user either, btw. (Note again: AVERAGE)

2000-facebook-machine.jpg
I think the eagerness to believe that IE users are dumber says more about those of us which enjoyed reading (and I know I did) the fake science news last year, than IE users themselves:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-14389430
First of all, have you noticed that the "correction article" doesn't actually deny that IE users are dumber. It just stated that the particular study was a hoax. And do note, I stayed away from stating them being less intelligent. I was talking about technologial competence. (Though that is quite often a good metric for other stuff, mind you. Personally, if I hear/see someone is using IE (or Apple products, for that matter), it gives me a certain base reading to judge them on.)
Second of all, I'm not talking only about the studies. I'm talking about own empiric experience and general consensus, too. Yes, I know it doesn't prove anything to anyone else, but it convinces me, nevertheless. And I would still encourage everyone to go through their friends and isolating the linux users (yourself included). Well what do you know, they're probably the ones with more gray brain matter among your friends, aren't they? Or let's put it this way: is there ANYONE here that has "stupid" linux users as friends?

Third of all, keep in mind we're still talking about averages and statistics. I'm not saying EVERYONE using IE are the same. For example, some people are simply bound to it through work place, and can't use anything else even if they wanted to.

There a technique in advertising where you make something stand out by just being different. It only works whilst most other people don't do it.
True, though I wouldn't put the odd numbering (1.43€) to that group.
@godmil:

spud42 already answered most of it, but just to make sure: the rounding is only done for cash payments and only done once, for the final check-out total. And no, nothing is priced at 0.02€, so you won't get anything for free...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I intentionally divided this part to a different post, so it wouldn't drown to my longer post. Sorry if I shouldn't do this:

I wouldn't worry about off-topicness. It's a good thing there's at least some kind of discussion. It will keep plenty of people entertained until the next official status update. And I'm sure there's quite a bit of traffic in this section, with people eagerly waiting for it. This might not be what they wished for, but I think it's still better than the discussion becoming stale in this section. It's just another psychological thing. Discussion inside the official news section is more interesting than in the general section, even if the topic would be the same. Though this is just my opinion, YMMV.
 
Isn't OSX/iOS a freeBSD variant ?

And shouldn't it be 'moot point', not 'mute point'?

We could go into a long discussion about whether we're talking about Means, modes, medians, all of which could be interquartile for added excitement!

Perhaps I should stop being so pedantic :rolleyes:
 


MacOS is very much akin to unix, but is more directly related to BSD
 
Last edited by a moderator:
What an odd perspective. Just because I may not know exactly why the sky is blue doesn't mean it isn't.
That's how science works. We know why the sky is blue, the answer is that the blue light is the light that makes it through the easiest during the main part of the day. When the angle changes you get more browns and reads. The science on that is quite clear.

The point isn't that something isn't real because we don't know how or why, the point is that claiming to know what without any sort of established how or why is just plain BS. Psychologists ruin many lives by telling people things which aren't true, then make tons of money trying to fix it.

Ultimately, without those hows or whys it's indistinguishable from bunk as there isn't even a clear phenomenon going on.
 
Not to stray too far off topic, but any news on how things are going Pandora wise?

I normally track the dragonbox store to see how stock is doing, but there are so many units now I can't work out if they're selling well or not.

Did the price drop make a different?

Any shipments heading Craigs way?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Hmmm, a couple of incorrect branches there I think - Solaris 2.0 and SGI IRIX should both have a line from UNIX V.x (they were both System V OSes) Strictly speaking Solaris is the bundling of OS + Windowing system - SunOS is still the OS...

Speaking as someone who was involved in the Solaris 2.0 testing/introduction for Sun :)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top