GP2X Libmirko Sdk, Who Use It ? Do You Like It ?

[deadlychicken22]

I'm not a dev (well, unless VNS counts ) so I don't understand everything said here, sorry if I sound stupid.

Does this mean that all emus and homebrew MUST be for linux? Or can you still write code that operates without linux loaded? How can the linux kernel not be free, isn't that part of the idea behind linux, that anyone can edit it and release what they make as long as they make it opensource and free?

 

[mr.mirko]

Does this mean that all emus and homebrew MUST be for linux? Or can you still write code that operates without linux loaded? How can the linux kernel not be free, isn't that part of the idea behind linux, that anyone can edit it and release what they make as long as they make it opensource and free?

This means, until someone else writes an alternative loading, and new SDK,
yes you must use linux and SDL.
But at the beginning, only Linux/SDL applications will run on the machine.

You can of couse modify the kernel, and use it for your own projects. Without giving away the source. The linux kernel is so "free" that the licence allows this.

 

[The Phantom]

Not really, it is the same on the Sharp Zaurus.
You can not get the Linux source for the kernel.

Sorry, but you are mistaken, the sourcecode of the Zaurus kernel is available. (for example, see http://developer.ezaurus.com/sl_j/source/6...rom1_11.tar.bz2)

It is illegal to distribute the Linux kernel without making the sourcecode available. Linux is licensed under the GPL, just like mirkoSDK.

 

[mr.mirko]

Not really, it is the same on the Sharp Zaurus.
You can not get the Linux source for the kernel.

Sorry, but you are mistaken, the sourcecode of the Zaurus kernel is available. (for example, see http://developer.ezaurus.com/sl_j/source/6...rom1_11.tar.bz2)

It is illegal to distribute the Linux kernel without making the sourcecode available. Linux is licensed under the GPL, just like mirkoSDK.

​

I will investigate this source code, if its complete. I only own an Zaurus 5500, and i never found an source for the linux kernel for it..

 

[The Phantom]

I will investigate this source code, if its complete. I only own an Zaurus 5500, and i never found an source for the linux kernel for it..

​

I think this is a japanese version actually, I couldn't find it on the USA website. Sharp is not required to have it on their website though, if they supply it on request that is sufficient. So you could contact them and ask them for the sourcecode and they will have to comply.

Anyway, I don't think the Zaurus situation matters here. Maybe Sharp made mistakes and was unwilling to supply the sourcecode initially. The fact remains that Linux is GPL licensed and sourcecode to the GP2X Linux kernel must be supplied when we ask for it.

 

[deadlychicken22]

^
Thats what I thought.

 

[mr.mirko]

I will investigate this source code, if its complete. I only own an Zaurus 5500, and i never found an source for the linux kernel for it..

​

I think this is a japanese version actually, I couldn't find it on the USA website. Sharp is not required to have it on their website though, if they supply it on request that is sufficient. So you could contact them and ask them for the sourcecode and they will have to comply.

Anyway, I don't think the Zaurus situation matters here. Maybe Sharp made mistakes and was unwilling to supply the sourcecode initially. The fact remains that Linux is GPL licensed and sourcecode to the GP2X Linux kernel must be supplied when we ask for it.

​

A quick investigation shows me, that it supports 5000 and 5500 model also with this kernel. It is 2.4.18 based. Then it will come to an conflict i think.

Magiceyes wants NDA, to give away Hardware specs and Documentation. But they also give away a linux kernel for the chip. How will this suit together ?

 

[The Phantom]

Magiceyes wants NDA, to give away Hardware specs and Documentation. But they also give away a linux kernel for the chip. How will this suit together ?

​

I suspect that the interesting magiceyes stuff is in closed-source kernel modules. Similar to, say, nvidia's closed-source linux display driver.

Has craigix said anything about the devkit situation after he came back from Korea?

 

[DaveC]

But isn't linux/SDL too limiting and slow?  If this is the case that the chip is closed it would seem that any hope for emus such as SNES are thrown out of the window.  This really sucks.  What will now be better for emus?  PSP? Gizmondo?  It seems like the GP2X is much too closed to get anything decent speed wise out of more sophisticated emulators  

​

linux/sdl is about 15% slower than direct Hardware access.
Of couse there will be emulators for the machine, a lot devvers will receive the linux SDK from gph. So they can port theire stuff on the gp2x. Only the low-level stuff is cloesd source. You can take any linux open source emulator, and cross compile it. If its any faster than on gp32, or better, i dont know.

Gizmondo is dead.

PSP, is great, but you need a machine with 1.5 Firmware to get Homebrew running.

​

That is pretty serious. 15%? Imagine all emulators running 15% slower, that is major suckiness. So the GP2X is a bit faster than the GP32 but you use up that small speed increase with linux leaving you back to GP32 speed levels. What is the point then? If SNES will be stuck at GP32 speed then it is quite worthless, I don't play with sound turned off. If all we get over GP32 is SD card BFD. This means no better SNES, no Neo Geo, don't even think about GBA. This completely sucks big time.

The Giz has been cracked and has some support from som big HB devs like fDave and Firefly. Since it will be released worldwide, even in the US, I think it will do much better. The GP2X won't be available in the US except through small import type places, and very few places in Europe will have it. I would say the GP2X is more "dead" in that area. If only the screen was bigger on the *400 MHz* Giz this would be the one to get.

PSP? well there are more 1.5 PSPs sold then there ever will be GP2Xs, and that is not counting the fact that newer PSPs will likely be cracked too.

I guess there is still no "perfect" emu handheld.

Meh, this is dissapointing.

 

[Alpha2]

... okay wait, as an outsider (non-dev) comming to thsi thread from DaveC's link it simply sounds to me like the only real problem is you can share your source code with other devs which unfortunatly means fewer possible joint projects maybe (so no improvments to a program by someone else) but that dosent stop a Dev from Signing a NDA to get the SDK and getting something running. I think many people were already resigned to the idea that the MagicEyes chip was NOT going to be open to begin with.

Indeed an SDK made for the system isnt a perfect solution but hopefully new tricks will be discovered in the mean time.

 

[Cyclops]

That is pretty serious. 15%? Imagine all emulators running 15% slower, that is major suckiness. So the GP2X is a bit faster than the GP32 but you use up that small speed increase with linux leaving you back to GP32 speed levels. What is the point then? If SNES will be stuck at GP32 speed then it is quite worthless, I don't play with sound turned off. If all we get over GP32 is SD card BFD. This means no better SNES, no Neo Geo, don't even think about GBA. This completely sucks big time.

​

Jesus the maths must be poor in this part of the world.

The GP2X is 50% faster than the GP32 and thats without fater this and that and dual whatever, so if you lose 15% you actually gain 35%.

Imagine that your emulators running 35% faster, thats major niceness.

okay wait, as an outsider (non-dev) comming to thsi thread from DaveC's link it simply sounds to me like the only real problem is you can share your source code with other devs

It means nothing of the sort, otherwise it would make the whole point of using linux/Linux emulators a waste of time.

The interesting reality is Linux is GPL, SDL is LGPL. hell if you look through the rest of the devkit.

ARM Linux Kernel 2.4.25
GNU Tool source and binary for RedHat Linux
U-Boot 1.0
Device Driver
File & File system
Shell & Shell utility, System Utility
Application support software
Media Middelware(Video/ Audio codec)

I don't really see a lot thats not forced to be open-source

 

[Prophet]

Anything not open in the beginning will inevitably be hacked to tiny little pieces. Sounds like to start with, devs have an easy way to program the GP2X via Linux/SDL. So maybe early emu projects will be for less demanding systems. But as more hardware power is needed, I believe people will find ways to get more direct access to the hardware.

As for Gizmondo, the small screen and the ugly design, plus reports of crappy buttons - really all turn me off.

 

[Alpha2]

Sorry I actually meant to type:
"cant share your source code with other devs"
I missed the T and didn't notice till now.

 

[Prophet]

Alpha2, you can simply go back and edit your post. There should be an "EDIT" icon on the lower right for all your posts. You can also delete your posts with this function.

 

[Prophet]

That is pretty serious.  15%?  Imagine all emulators running 15% slower, that is major suckiness.  So the GP2X is a bit faster than the GP32 but you use up that small speed increase with linux leaving you back to GP32 speed levels.  What is the point then?  If SNES will be stuck at GP32 speed then it is quite worthless, I don't play with sound turned off.  If all we get over GP32 is SD card BFD.  This means no better SNES, no Neo Geo, don't even think about GBA.  This completely sucks big time.

-snip-

I guess there is still no "perfect" emu handheld.

I do agree with the last part, there is no perfect emu handheld yet. But I still believe GP2X appears to be the closest so far overall.

Once again I think your doom and gloom here is an overreaction.

NeoGeo and SNES are 100% possible, even with this _CURRENT_ limitation. That's pretty good for a system not even out yet. And GP2X is certainly more than just a GP32 with SD card support. It should be at least somewhat faster, it has a ton more RAM, more buttons, video-out, and some interesting MMP funtionality etc. And it's open to developers right now, even if not at the lowest hardware levels. That's at least a great way to start out.

It's amazing how you go off on a system that isn't even out yet, just because it's not fully cracked and hacked yet. Damn man, give things a chance, The PSP was supposed to be "unhackable" - look at it now. At least GP2X is very dev friendly, and in time anything not open will be circumvented.

 

[synkro]

Hi Mirko, hi guys!

I like libmirko and I use a modified one. The only thing I like is the GPL as I would like to see it run under the LGPL but this is just minor shiznick. I WANT a open SDK for gp2x besides Linux/SDL. This should be possible and with a bit of planning (good structure of the API, surfcaes, hi-speed9) and a bit work of us. . . I would gove this the favor over Linux/SDL

 

[Squidge]

GPH have said that it is possible to run software before Linux is loaded, so any emulators that need as much power as possible can run here. Of course at the point there is no SDK whatever, only direct hardware access. I am trying to create an SDK for this, but it will be closed source due to the fact that the chip itself is closed source. I do intend only to make the functions that access the hardware closed source however, the rest will be open.

Mirko, I do (did?) use your SDK on the GP32, although only about 5% of it. I just used it to initialise the hardware and LCD, and wrote my own blitting, sprites & sound routines. I've never updated past 0.60 or something like that. Why did I use it? It was just easier than writing it all myself

 

[Creature XL]

But isn't linux/SDL too limiting and slow? If this is the case that the chip is closed it would seem that any hope for emus such as SNES are thrown out of the window. This really sucks. What will now be better for emus? PSP? Gizmondo? It seems like the GP2X is much too closed to get anything decent speed wise out of more sophisticated emulators

​

What do you mean with slow? Where is the problem?
You can still code in asm and you can still get a pointer ( the address) of the screens bitmap ( via SDL) and that are the major things you need for fast stuff. If you need the special functions of the chip then you maybe have to use the SDK, but no problem AFAIS, cause starting a sound playback can't be optimized much

Or are you talking about, the possibility to access the second CPU core? ATM I think it is just used by the SDK functions. BUT, the 940 has no own memory, that is, the code you hack for that core is in the same memory as the the code for teh 920-core. So its maybe tricky but not impossible to get the 940 to process your own code.

BUT, there are so many "maybe"'s... Does anybody know if there already is an emulator to play with it and test things? I could buy the GP2X around Xmas

salut,
creature

 

[LHC]

I like how DaveC, a man with no coding knowledge whatsoever (like myself) announces the king dead at the first sign of trouble.

 

[mr.mirko]

Or are you talking about, the possibility to access the second CPU core? ATM I think it is just used by the SDK functions. BUT, the 940 has no own memory, that is, the code you hack for that core is in the same memory as the the code for teh 920-core. So its maybe tricky but not impossible to get the 940 to process your own code.

BUT, there are so many "maybe"'s... Does anybody know if there already is an emulator to play with it and test things? I could buy the GP2X around Xmas

salut,
creature

The gp2xs is a great machine, you got 2 cpu cores. Both running at 200Mhz. But it is not so easy to use them both. If you only cross compile your emulator, it will only use one cpu. This means at the beginning the gp2x, is only 33Mhz faster than an 166Mhz gp32. Later on, if the devvers know how to use the second core, how to access it, and how to run code on both cores at the same time. You could get an speed improvement about 50%.

But there are too mutch if and could, so only time will tell, what will happen. But remember the old gp32 days. It will take its time, to get good emulators for the machine. Only cross compiling will not give you mutch speed, only hard coding, taking its time, will get the full potential out of the box.

I espect full snes, with Sound in the beginning of next year.

For me, iam no longer in the SDK creating role, iam now creating emulator stuff, thats more fun, and gives more fame

cu